Morant is for real, Video inside

[Pelicanidae]

You cut off the end of that sentence in your quote. The bolded words above are important.



Landing mechanics are important. Landing mechanics do not have anything to do with landing on a camera after falling while taking contact.

Your example of Lebron is a great one. He is able to do what he does because he's huge! He has enough mass to absorb contact without being sent flying like Ja. There is no amount of functional training a person can do to overcome simple physics when two people make contact in mid air. The smaller person will generally be sent flying. Go back and look at Zion in college, he just blows people out of the way. Its a mass issue more than anything.

Rose is also a little guy by NBA standards. Smaller/lightweight players that are super athletic and attack the rim with reckless abandon will likely be more prone to injury.

There are plenty of huge guys who constantly take terrible, dangerous falls due to improper technique. Look at Embiid's first two years, for example, before he started working with a biomechanics expert to learn how to fall. Lebron's strength certainly plays a part of it, but the more important part of his ability to sustain contact consistently without injury is because he has stellar landing mechanics.

It's true that if you are small and you get hit by a bigger person, there's no amount of functional training you can do to stop yourself from being moved. But there IS training you can do to make sure that you land in the safest way possible. It is possible to learn how to fall. Morant needs to do that.

I cut off the part about the camera because actually, the camera doesn't matter. He fell into the camera, sure, but the issue that I'm talking about (Landing mechanics) has absolutely nothing to do with the camera. His landing mechanics would be bad whether he fell onto a camera, a beanbag, a lasagna, a mince pie, sixteen fans, a bee hive, or a bowl of soup.

[P_B_&_G]

There are plenty of huge guys who constantly take terrible, dangerous falls due to improper technique. Look at Embiid's first two years, for example, before he started working with a biomechanics expert to learn how to fall. Lebron's strength certainly plays a part of it, but the more important part of his ability to sustain contact consistently without injury is because he has stellar landing mechanics.

It's true that if you are small and you get hit by a bigger person, there's no amount of functional training you can do to stop yourself from being moved. But there IS training you can do to make sure that you land in the safest way possible. It is possible to learn how to fall. Morant needs to do that.

I cut off the part about the camera because actually, the camera doesn't matter. He fell into the camera, sure, but the issue that I'm talking about (Landing mechanics) has absolutely nothing to do with the camera. His landing mechanics would be bad whether he fell onto a camera, a beanbag, a lasagna, a mince pie, sixteen fans, a bee hive, or a bowl of soup.

What precisely is it about Lebron's landing mechanics that are stellar?

Show me an example of Embiid's injury history being caused by poor landing mechanics and when did it improve. Was it the navicular fracture, facial fracture, meniscus tear, or the knee tendinitis or all of the above caused by his landing mechanics?

The camera matters in my sentence because he was not injured by the fall after taking contact, ie. a knee/ankle/wrist/shoulder injury. Watch the video and tell me how he could have prevented that fall on that play. The camera is what caused the injury. Not the fall. On this particular play.

I don't actually expect you to answer all of this because I know you will argue until the end of time. My point is that for this particular instance the injury had nothing to do with landing mechanics.

[Pelicanidae]

I don't actually expect you to answer all of this because I know you will argue until the end of time. .

And that was your first mistake. I will answer it precisely because I'm up to discuss/debate things forever.

What precisely is it about Lebron's landing mechanics that are stellar?

When Lebron gets hit in mid-air, he keeps his legs from flailing in almost all cases, and often aims to land on the balls of his feet rather than on the heel. He almost always lands with a slight bend in the knee to absorb the impact, with as little sideways rotation in the knee and ankle as possible. This is super important in terms of joint stability and reducing impact because while bones are very strong in terms of compression, they're actually pretty terrible at absorbing rotational force and it can put a lot of stress on the knee and ankle to land with twisting motions after a jump.

There are exceptions, of course, and in a 17 year career I'm certain you can find clips here and there of Lebron taking sub-optimal landings, but in general he tends to land pretty well.

Show me an example of Embiid's injury history being caused by poor landing mechanics and when did it improve. Was it the navicular fracture, facial fracture, meniscus tear, or the knee tendinitis or all of the above caused by his landing mechanics?

I didn't say Embiid's injuries were caused by bad falling, I said that he's an example of someone who is big who still took plenty of bad falls, as a counter-example to your claim that the reason Lebron landed well was because of his size.

That said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/joel-embiid...120043564.html

Embiid smiles when asked about his frequent falls. “It was something I learned during my rehab when I was going through the foot injury, when I was trying to find ways to limit the impact on my body in 2014,” he says. “I was told that every time I feel like I’m in a situation where it’s going to be some type of extreme [weight] on my leg, I’ve got to dive or just roll onto the floor. So that’s why I do it.”

Embiid literally falls the way he does today because his trainers and doctors told him to, specifically to avoid putting his huge weight onto his joints with as much regularity as he was doing early in his career in order to avoid straining or putting excess stress on his body. This makes sense; it's generally good landing technique to, if you can't get your knees and ankles in line and bent to absorb the stress of landing, land on your butt, or the sides of your thighs, rather than on your knees, elbows, back, hips, etc.

The camera matters in my sentence because he was not injured by the fall after taking contact, ie. a knee/ankle/wrist/shoulder injury. Watch the video and tell me how he could have prevented that fall on that play. The camera is what caused the injury. Not the fall. On this particular play.

If you watch the clip back, particularly in slow motion, you see that when he takes the contact he immediately flails his right leg out, and reaches his left leg out slightly behind him with a straightened knee. That left foot is what hits the ground first, and he makes contact with the ground with his heel, with a stiff, extended knee, and instantly the knee fails to hold his weight and he goes falling backwards. If he had kept his right leg under control, and aimed to land with a bent knee and on the ball of his foot, he could have fallen without losing control of his body and tumbling into the cameraman. And frankly, he may not have even fallen at all if he has the leg strength to backpedal along the baseline instead of just collapsing (I don't know if he has the lower body strength to do that yet though, so that might not be on him).

[P_B_&_G]

And that was your first mistake. I will answer it precisely because I'm up to discuss/debate things forever.

I guess I worded that wrong in haste. I didn't want you to answer all of them because I know you like to debate. But so do I.

When Lebron gets hit in mid-air, he keeps his legs from flailing in almost all cases, and often aims to land on the balls of his feet rather than on the heel. He almost always lands with a slight bend in the knee to absorb the impact, with as little sideways rotation in the knee and ankle as possible. This is super important in terms of joint stability and reducing impact because while bones are very strong in terms of compression, they're actually pretty terrible at absorbing rotational force and it can put a lot of stress on the knee and ankle to land with twisting motions after a jump.

Again, I would argue that this is the case because Lebron is a physical outlier in terms of size and athleticism and he is generally the one initiating the contact. He has always had good landing mechanics due to his size and being able to knock people out of the way.

I didn't say Embiid's injuries were caused by bad falling, I said that he's an example of someone who is big who still took plenty of bad falls, as a counter-example to your claim that the reason Lebron landed well was because of his size.

My mistake then, I interpreted what you wrote as implying Embiid's injuries were cause by his landings. On that note...

if you can't get your knees and ankles in line and bent to absorb the stress of landing, land on your butt, or the sides of your thighs, rather than on your knees, elbows, back, hips, etc.

Precisely, landing mechanics are not only how you actually land but knowing when to make a controlled fall. Yes, a fall. Meaning when you take contact and are off balance it is better to just fall and roll rather than try to catch yourself and risk injury. Which brings me too...

If you watch the clip back, particularly in slow motion, you see that when he takes the contact he immediately flails his right leg out, and reaches his left leg out slightly behind him with a straightened knee. That left foot is what hits the ground first, and he makes contact with the ground with his heel, with a stiff, extended knee, and instantly the knee fails to hold his weight and he goes falling backwards. If he had kept his right leg under control, and aimed to land with a bent knee and on the ball of his foot, he could have fallen without losing control of his body and tumbling into the cameraman. And frankly, he may not have even fallen at all if he has the leg strength to backpedal along the baseline instead of just collapsing (I don't know if he has the lower body strength to do that yet though, so that might not be on him).

To me it appeared that he took contact on his right shoulder as he elevated and was sent into a rotational motion then he lifted his right leg to counterbalance himself (again, this is due to his build and being hit by a much larger player, something Lebron rarely encounters), he then landed on the left foot and then attempted to control his fall backwards. Just like Embiid was instructed to do. Unfortunately there was a camera in the way that caused his injury. No camera there, no injury.

So, its good landing mechanics when Embiid falls. But bad when Morant falls. Okay, got it.

My entire point here is there was nothing wrong with this particular fall as he did not land in such a way that was dangerous for his knees or ankles but that it was the placement of the camera that caused the injury.

[Pelicanidae]

Again, I would argue that this is the case because Lebron is a physical outlier in terms of size and athleticism and he is generally the one initiating the contact. He has always had good landing mechanics due to his size and being able to knock people out of the way.

Except, as I pointed out, being big-bodied and strong is not enough to stop you from taking bad falls if you don't know what you're doing. Embiid's early career, before he got instruction on what to do, remains the counter example. IF you don't know what you're doing, being big and strong doesn't prevent you from taking stupid spills.

Precisely, landing mechanics are not only how you actually land but knowing when to make a controlled fall. Yes, a fall. Meaning when you take contact and are off balance it is better to just fall and roll rather than try to catch yourself and risk injury. Which brings me too...

Except Morant did try to catch himself. The issue wasn't that he was off balance so he fell and rolled, because that's not what happened. What happened was he did try to catch himself by extended a stiff-kneed leg out behind his centre of gravity, and he fell not because he was purposefully trying to absorb the contact, but because his leg buckled due to terrible positioning and improper posture in his lower leg. He fell in an uncontrolled fashion because he was trying to use a stiff leg to stay up, rather than falling properly.

So, its good landing mechanics when Embiid falls. But bad when Morant falls. Okay, got it.

My entire point here is there was nothing wrong with this particular fall as he did not land in such a way that was dangerous for his knees or ankles but that it was the placement of the camera that caused the injury.

Nothing like what Embiid was instructed to do, as mentioned above. This wasn't a controlled fall, this was going tumbling cause of bad knee and foot positioning that led to the leg buckling.

Yes, the camera was in the way, but you continue to miss my point. Even if there was no camera, it would have been a bad fall. It's true that the camera being there is what turned this from ''ouch, that's a bad fall'' into ''oh god he's probably hurt'', but even if he had fallen onto a cloud of pillows it would have been the result of his not knowing how to fall properly. And he takes spills like this fairly regularly, because of that ignorance. At least once or twice a game he hits the ground after a layup in a worrying way. He needs to learn how to fall properly, and preferably soon. This is the sort of thing that can easily be taught, and hopefully Memphis will rectify it, but the camera doesn't actually change whether his falling technique was good or not. And it wasn't.

[P_B_&_G]

Except, as I pointed out, being big-bodied and strong is not enough to stop you from taking bad falls if you don't know what you're doing. Embiid's early career, before he got instruction on what to do, remains the counter example. IF you don't know what you're doing, being big and strong doesn't prevent you from taking stupid spills.

Except Morant did try to catch himself. The issue wasn't that he was off balance so he fell and rolled, because that's not what happened. What happened was he did try to catch himself by extended a stiff-kneed leg out behind his centre of gravity, and he fell not because he was purposefully trying to absorb the contact, but because his leg buckled due to terrible positioning and improper posture in his lower leg. He fell in an uncontrolled fashion because he was trying to use a stiff leg to stay up, rather than falling properly.

Another angle for you. If you think any amount of trining or coaching could have altered this fall then there is no point in this debate.

Footage of Ja Morant’s injury from the @GrizzliesOnFSSE broadcast. pic.twitter.com/YYf0U49yWE

— David Cobb (@DavidWCobb) November 26, 2019

Here is an article about it.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/sto...ll/4292674002/

"I renew my objection to all the camera people being seated under the basket," NBA blogger Kevin Broom wrote. "It creates an unsafe landing area for players. Lenses are good these days, MOVE THEM BACK."

"Hard falls have become a regular part of Morant's game as he often throws his slender frame into larger defenders near the rim."

Nothing like what Embiid was instructed to do, as mentioned above. This wasn't a controlled fall, this was going tumbling cause of bad knee and foot positioning that led to the leg buckling.

Yes, the camera was in the way, but you continue to miss my point. Even if there was no camera, it would have been a bad fall. It's true that the camera being there is what turned this from ''ouch, that's a bad fall'' into ''oh god he's probably hurt'', but even if he had fallen onto a cloud of pillows it would have been the result of his not knowing how to fall properly. And he takes spills like this fairly regularly, because of that ignorance. At least once or twice a game he hits the ground after a layup in a worrying way. He needs to learn how to fall properly, and preferably soon. This is the sort of thing that can easily be taught, and hopefully Memphis will rectify it, but the camera doesn't actually change whether his falling technique was good or not. And it wasn't.

I'm not missing your point. I am disagreeing with it. This particular fall could not have been prevented other than Morant's fearless and frankly dangerous attacks on the rim.

So, agree to disagree I guess.

[Pelicanidae]

So, agree to disagree I guess.

Basically. Hopefully the Grizz are taking every precaution to make sure Morant knows how to fall properly, whether you think this particular issue is related to that or not. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

[P_B_&_G]

Basically. Hopefully the Grizz are taking every precaution to make sure Morant knows how to fall properly, whether you think this particular issue is related to that or not. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

Absolutely!

[13 - 3]

Ja Morant must be stopped at all costs.
pic.twitter.com/MX7nrO7629

— C.J. Holmes (@CjHolmes22) December 12, 2019

[P_B_&_G]

Ja Morant must be stopped at all costs.
pic.twitter.com/MX7nrO7629

— C.J. Holmes (@CjHolmes22) December 12, 2019

Just remind yourself that Zion is better than Ja.

This season is a trainwreck but I'm holding out hope we get to see Zion dunking on people in the next few weeks.

[Pelicanidae]

Somebody please teach my guy how to land.

Please. https://t.co/7ByIaIEDG6

— Dave DuFour (@DaveDuFourNBA) December 12, 2019

Dude's knees and ankles are in horrible danger basically every time he takes off. It's to the point where I'm actively avoiding watching Memphis despite my love for Brandon Clarke because I don't wanna be watching when he blows his knee out.

[P_B_&_G]

Somebody please teach my guy how to land.

Please. https://t.co/7ByIaIEDG6

— Dave DuFour (@DaveDuFourNBA) December 12, 2019

Dude's knees and ankles are in horrible danger basically every time he takes off. It's to the point where I'm actively avoiding watching Memphis despite my love for Brandon Clarke because I don't wanna be watching when he blows his knee out.

That one from college looked especially bad. Straight legged transfer of all of his weight up through the kinetic chain. He may never be able to land efficiently through contact though since he is so thin. Its possible he may need to learn when to attempt a quick lay in versus just trying to dunk over everyone if he wants a long career. He probably could have avoided the contact better with a lay in on the other side of the glass against Baynes

[13 - 3]

Never forget Ja jumping over Kevin Love and almost converting slam. The fact he could jump over Love was amazing in itself.

[Chris]

Never forget Ja jumping over Kevin Love and almost converting slam. The fact he could jump over Love was amazing in itself.

Ja almost ended my professional career with this dunk...that kid is something special 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 https://t.co/5SxCItAMba

— Kevin Love (@kevinlove) December 21, 2019

[Pelicanidae]

Never forget Ja jumping over Kevin Love and almost converting slam. The fact he could jump over Love was amazing in itself.

One day he'll actually make one of these dunks and twitter will implode almost as quickly as Morant's knees will.

[13 - 3]

One day he'll actually make one of these dunks and twitter will implode almost as quickly as Morant's knees will.

Why are you saying his knees will implode?

[Pelicanidae]

Why are you saying his knees will implode?

Have you considered reading any of the prior posts in this thread about this topic?