I don't see how Lonzo is an all star. He has big problems breaking down his man and even bigger problems finishing when he does. He's a glorified role player at this pointOriginally Posted by pelicanchamp
Ingram has a big, big future though
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I don't see how Lonzo is an all star. He has big problems breaking down his man and even bigger problems finishing when he does. He's a glorified role player at this point
Ingram has a big, big future though
Last edited by AusPel; 10-27-2019 at 01:21 AM.
hart is showing the potential that the lakers saw in him and if he stays healthy here then he will be a breakout player...
ingram will be an allstar if he keep this pace up....the only thing that will count against him is our record if its bad.......
lonzo confidence is high in shooting the 3 but he need to have that same energy in attacking the rim and getting to the free throw line........
melli will be on the bench with lil playing time when zion come back if he dont shoot the 3 like gentry want him to....thats why he was benched in that overtime game for not shooting....melli should shoot about 10 3s a game imo.....
kenny hustle does all the lil dirty things that people dont talk about...he is a poor man rodman and with time he should be a good player....
the bench will be better when zion come back and JJ move back to the bench...jackson,,,JJ,,hart,,williams,,,okafor will give us a strong bench with alot of offense,,hustle and some rebounds......naw need to sit and watch and learn the game and let the game come to him and only playing about 3-5mins every now and then....i know,,i know,,a lot of yall are in love with naw....
dont know whats going on with jrue offensive game but it might not be long before the media start pushing the agenda that jrue is wasting his time in new orleans and need to be on a contending team or trying to push him to the lakers to get lebron from playing the point and reunite him with AD...........hell, if jrue would have played better offense,,i believe we would be 2-1....maybe 3-0 the way we played without him last night...
and we have to play better team defense..once we do that, we will be a all around better team....
The only true breakout stars it seems like so far to me is Ingram followed by Hart. I think Lonzo had shown some promise but as I've said for awhile now our starters with Jrue just don't fit. Something will have to give somewhere. I'm also very much on the fence about Jackson. He's improved for sure but I think calling him a breakout star is a very big stretch.
If I tier listed them right now if say Ingram is on a whole norther level of breakout compared to the others. I was very much questioning Ingram this summer. Especially coming off of injury and he still has some questionable shot choices (same with Lonzo) but I'm going to assume those shot choices are due to the Lakers system and as they get more familiar and adjusted it will smooth out more. I'm glad it looks like Ingram has taken that next step and elevated his game.
Hart as well looks like he has found his groove as a player but we are dealing with small sample sizes so I have reservations still about all of them. I'll tell you now though at 3.5m next year Hart is a steal.
I do think a lot of it depends on what you call a breakout.
Does going from a terrible player to an average player constitute ''breaking out''?
What about going from a solid, but not great, player to a borderline all-star. It's an improvement, but is it ''breaking out''?
If you're using ''breakout'' to just mean general improvement, then yeah, all of the named guys are breaking out.
But if you're meaning reaching some specific level, then the number of people who qualify vary wildly.
Basketball.
I forgot about Jaxson Hayes a lil bit with the rest of the core since he hasn’t played yet. That’s how deep our young depth is
Hayes, Okafor
Zion, Melli
Ingram, Williams
Hart, Jackson
Ball, NAW
I can’t stop putting that lineup down on paper.. It’s crazy we have no true needs. All they have to do is keep developing their game and continue establishing chemistry together. We never to make real big additions while every position is loaded with future star talent. Adding any lengthy significant contract would set the cap space back and get in the way of re-signing any of those 9 youngins
That’s why I honestly want to see their era of playing together start now. Having Jrue is putting a lot of guards out there that does the same thing and not working well off of each other. They could probably develop better chemistry if it was just the young players out there. Jrue is obviously our most polished driver and rim attacker of all the guards, but I think the rest haven’t gotten a chance to get fully coached up on it. I know out of 4 young guards, somebody can drive the lane. That was suppose to be NAW’s game coming out of VT. When Zion comes back, we’ll have the most elite driver in the league.
At some point before or after Zion comes back, our young guards’ development have to come first. If we something like 11-18/13-16 out there with a healthy Jrue, by then I hope the transition wouldve started of featuring all of the young talent
If Hart keeps playing this way I'm not opposed to moving Jrue for future picks. Hart is 5 years younger, looks to fit better and is outplaying him (small sample size). We have other young guys on the bench as well in Frank and NAW so it's not like we don't have plenty of depth. Re: Jrue to Lakers, they have zero assets to get Jrue.
This completely aligns with how I see it. When is Hart due an extension?
I can't endorse this take. Hart is looking good, but Jrue is a legit all-star, all-nba calibre player. Hart would have to sustain this level of play or higher for 50+ games for this to even be remotely a good idea, and that's a ridiculously huge leap for him to take. Jrue is a top 20 guy.
So next year will be Frank’s breakout year.
I am old enough to remember when people said that Frank or Hart would be moved to make room for all of NAW’s minuets.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Ball couldn’t make a 3pt shot to save his life until 3 games ago. Let’s pump the breaks on thinking we know what his finished product is.
It's not something I'd be in a hurry to do, but if things stayed at the same trajectory it would be something to consider at the trade deadline/offseason IMO.
We picked up his option for next year so we have him locked up guaranteed for this season and next. This coming summer we can offer him a rookie scale extension. If an extension is not agreed upon we still don't lose him. We can offer him a qualifying offer in summer of 21 and then we will have right to match any contract he is offered and signs.
Basically we will have Hart for as long as we want him in the foreseeable future. All the same things I said also go for Lonzo. BI is 1 year ahead of them so this coming summer we will offer him his qualifying offer and then match or sign him to a new contract.
I think Lonzo is going to prove many people wrong. His defense, rebounding, natural point guard ability, athleticism, and his awesome 3 point shooting is nothing to take for granted.
Combine all this with being a 6’6” guard still very early in his career and it’s easy to see him being better than almost all young guards in the league.
I believe he’s going to be a high volume 3 point shooter and I think he will average very close to 40 percent. I also believe he will be a 65 percent FT shooter. This season I think he will average:
12.8ppg 10assists per game (with Zion back) and 7 rebounds per game, 1.8 steals and 1 block per game. Low turnovers.
It’s very obvious his 3 point shot is significantly improved. As the season progresses I think most of y’all will agree he’s going to eventually be the best pg in the league....
Lonzo is very likely a future All Star.
Thank god we passed on D’Angelo Russell. What mess he is
Beating this dead horse of a drum, for me, but I really do think two or three of our promising young stars will be packaged with two or three of our future picks for an all-star (if not all-pro). Jrue will stay and we will move on with that all-star, Jrue, and Zion as the big three with a still incredibly deep team and a good amount of future assets.
The who will depend on how the season goes and which team is ready to blow it all up and send us their elitist for anchance to rebuild.....and which of our players catches their fancy.
It will be bittersweet because we will love whomever gets traded (like Buddy) but will be super excited about whomever we get in return.
It's not really rocket science, inside knowledge, or even me being smart. It's just thinking along the same lines as this thread title. We have too many great and promising players 21 and under even if we had only a few picks. With all of our future picks we have way too much invested in the youth movement. Chips will be exhanged for an all-star.
So I guess I think the number of breakout players we can have on this team is a lot smaller than the number of players we have ready to breakout. We just don't have the numbers. It is leading to awful lineups and game managing issues. But we're doing it because we are more concerned with building up our trade value than winning, right now.
Good positive energy.
But also, yo mama's fat.
That would be the Thunder model all over again.
Twice so far people have called Ball's shooting really good now, as if that's just a given.
I think we need to pump the brakes on that a little. It's been 3 games. Yes, he's shooting 37% in those three games, which is a massive improvement on his previous years, but it's not like he's barely missed a thing for 10 games or something.
Not saying that he's going to revert to being a bad shooter: he may even improve as he finds consistency and the offense adjusts to give him superior looks. I just wouldn't be counting the chickens before they hatch on this one.
Lonzo is going to eventually be the best point guard in the league. I am confident he’s going to be incredible as the season progresses.
BI is going to be a star as well. Zero doubt.
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Cool. The issue is that declaring Ball's shooting as ''awesome'' when he's shooting only slightly above league average for a period of 3 games is fairly premature. Maybe you're right that hes going to be ''incredible'', and he'll keep this up: it's certainly possible. But to act as if this is just who he is now when it's a sample size of 3 games (one of which he actually shot terribly in) feels a lot like recency bias to me. We need to see more of it before we declare this the new normal.
As for Lonzo being the best PG in the league, all I can say is that I doubt it.
I understand you doubt Ball will be the top pg eventually. But, it’s very obvious that he’s on a different level with his precise laser like passes. Lonzo is unselfish and a brilliant player. When we start getting wins and he keeps shooting lights out and Zion returns, you will see just how good Lonzo can be when he has the best athlete in the league playing with him. We have a dangerous squad in the making. Ball is going to be a top 5 defender.
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I've never denied that Lonzo is a very good passer. I've also never denied that he's a capable defender (I used to think he was just an okay one, but I've since changed my mind from seeing more, and I agree with everyone else that he's actually very good on that end). All of my scepticism regarding his ceiling comes from his individual scoring ability and ability to break down a defender in order to warp offenses more generally and create shots for others using his own gravity, which is a key skill that the league's best PGs have.
First of all: ''keeps shooting lights out''. He is not shooting lights out. Lonzo Ball, through the first three games, is shooting 37.5%. Of course that is massively improved from last season, and would be a huge improvement if he kept it up for the entire year, I am not denying that. But even if he kept that up for the whole year, it would not be enough to make him the league's best PG, which is what you said he would be. Going from ''completely useless as a shooter'' to ''slightly above average'' does not make you the best PG in the NBA.
Now, of course he could always take another step up from this, of course that's possible. I'd be very happy if he did. But I'm not just assuming multiple huge leaps, I think that's a little presumptuous.
Like I said in the post you're responding to: it's certainly possible that he keeps this up, and that's great. Maybe you're right. But declaring this as the new normal after 3 games is pretty premature, imo.
With Lonzo, it comes down to ceiling and expectations.
Right now...he’s meeting all my expectations. I need him to get his ft% up like 10% but other than that, he’s playing like a starting pointguard on a championship ball club.
He’s throwing up 8 threes a game! 8! That’s what I am impressed with the most. His confidence right now is where we definitely need it. If he hangs around the 38-40% three point club this entire year (while maintaining that volume), with his passing, defense, and quarterbacking us to some wins when we get this thing all figured out... he would be ahead of a Jamal Murray in my eyes. Another starting pointguard in the west on a championship contender and he’s their second best player.
His volume doesn't impress me that much, since he's always been a volume 3pt shooter. Even when he sucked in his rookie year he was launching 6 a night.
But I agree, it comes down to expectations. I said before the season started that I'm trying to have realistic expectations for Ingram and Lonzo. I said that I don't expect anyone to make the leap from 31% three point shooting to 41% three point shooting in one summer, and that if Lonzo could shoot league average this year I'd be pleased with that progress. So far, he's doing that, so I'm pleased. I just think the celebration is a little premature; at least wait until we're a dozen games in to see if it's consistency or just a hot streak.
True. Need more games to assess with everyone but 8 threes a game imo is a big jump from 6.
8 threes a game is on pace to shooting them in the top 10. 6 is/has been fringe top 100.
Now who knows...with how fast the league is evolving maybe 8 will be the new 6 this season, but as of right now, it’s a majority allstar shooter’s volume which does equal confidence. In my opinion ability in this league has a lot to do with volume and usage.
I think we are all praying to land on the right side of this one so I wanna give it up to Zo at least while he’s doing it right within the moment.
As far as Lonzo's shooting, he's shooting 38% on the 9th most 3 point attempts in the nba. Or 24 attempts in 3 games That is encouraging. He just needs to attack the rim more.
On a side note, looks like ESPN has updated every roster with official NON-SHOES heights. LeBron is somehow now 6'9" when I coulda swore he was 6'8" before. And while they updated the heights, the weights are outta wack. AD is somehow 220 again.
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