October 26th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Houston Rockets - 0-2

[Pelicanidae]

Yeah. I dont see mid range jumpers as "very situational" or "rarely optimal" At ALL. It's a key part of any player's offensive repertoire. I wish Favors had it.

And Brandon Ingram is very good at it...thus his all-star like start to the season. Hope he keeps it up.

Yeah, hard disagree.

If you have the option to take an open three, an open 18 footer, and an open dunk, I think you'd be silly to take the midranger. The dunk is the easiest shot with the highest likelihood of providing points, and the open three has the highest potential return. A midrange shot blends the two: it provides only the points of the dunk, with the added difficulty of the distance. The worst of both worlds, in most cases.

And while Ingram has had a very good start to the season, I wouldn't attribute it to his mid range shooting whatsoever. His increased 3pt volume and %age, plus his consistent defense, has been the main driver of it.

[AussieHornet]

so how many wins would we have if Zion was healthy and we had good Jrue? This team will click eventually and we are in for one hell of a ride.

[msusousaphone]

Also, I just love how defensive some people get.

I make a post saying: ''wow, impressed by Ingram, he's shooting more threes than ever which is great, he's making a much better impact than before, love his consistency on defense, if he keeps this up he'll be a Most Improved candidate! Hope he keeps cutting out the unnecessary midrangers!''

And I immediately get like 3 people responding to me like ''WHAT?! THE MIDRANGERS ARE FINE! How dare you!''

We need a way to bury the hatchets.

If we all lived here, a tailgate with lots of good food and camaraderie would end most of the feuds that were created from very dismal seasons. It seems most of the snapping is more about people taking shots at guys they have beef with as opposed to the actual content being argued.

[Pelicanidae]

so how many wins would we have if Zion was healthy and we had good Jrue? This team will click eventually and we are in for one hell of a ride.

3-0.

We've lost all three games on the margins, and have been generally out-rebounded and unable to consistently create offense at the time when things break down.

A healthy, mid-season Jrue is an elite finisher at the rim. A healthy Zion is also an elite finisher at the rim, even most so, and also a monster offensive rebounder.

We have both of those guys at their best, we're 3-0.

[13 - 3]

3-0.

We've lost all three games on the margins, and have been generally out-rebounded and unable to consistently create offense at the time when things break down.

A healthy, mid-season Jrue is an elite finisher at the rim. A healthy Zion is also an elite finisher at the rim, even most so, and also a monster offensive rebounder.

We have both of those guys at their best, we're 3-0.

Last year 4 - 0 turned into a disaster

[Pelicanidae]

Last year 4 - 0 turned into a disaster

Sure, but I'm not speculating on the season. I'm just answering the question about these first three games.

[13 - 3]

Minty still winning vs Clippers

[ozwego15]

time to find a new coach

[bahmamamba]

so either me or everyone can't attack posts anymore and personally attacking someone is okay even though it's a bannable offense. so nice knowing you guys you're all pretty except for the new laker prick who you can't say anything too with out getting a warning

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[13 - 3]

Suns up by 9 now

[GuardianAngel25]

Yes plenty have said only 3s and layups are good shots in recent years. I have ears and eyes. And I dont see Ingram making midrange shots a "priority". When he's taken them he's being guarded with help waiting at the rim. Which is why it is a good shot to take. I have never seen him pull up for a midrange shot with open space near the rim. The midrange is something every player should have in their toolbox, and all the best wing players in the league take and make them.

Your take on midrange shots is just off. Imo.

100% dead spot on!! One of the first suggestions for every basketball player by professional cosches is to work on this and make it dominant then the 3. All of the greats have the same deadly mid ranger as their bread and butter while they developed the 3pt later as some icing on the cake in their game. I can point to player after player after player and not just a bunch of great players but the ones who won at the highest levels outside of 1 Warriors team.. They then signed Durant to take this shot and help win 2 more. This is where analytics is not right as all GMs will tell you it’s just a tool plain and simple. Very rarely when Ingram is 1on1 in this pocket is it a bad shot. All the great players tell you a hand doesn’t matter when you know it can’t be blocked.

[13 - 3]

Minty keeps doing this with that talent he could be looking at coach of the year!

[luckyman]

Yeah, hard disagree.

If you have the option to take an open three, an open 18 footer, and an open dunk, I think you'd be silly to take the midranger.

This is a very silly way to put the argument. And many coaches would say the open mid range shot would be the second option on that list just from a percentage standpoint alone.

And I didnt say the midrange was the sole reason for his all star start. I said it's a major part of his game and thus, part of it. Without it he doesn't score 35 tonight nor look as good this year.

Anyway, carry on.

[bahmamamba]

.

[luckyman]

Minty still winning vs Clippers

Part of it is Minty. The other part is that Clippers team is a tad overrated. They've only made 7 threes tonight and being badly out rebounded. Two things I'd keep my eye on with them.

[Pelicanidae]

This is a very silly way to put the argument. And many coaches would say the open mid range shot would be the second option on that list just from a percentage standpoint alone.

Then those coaches would be silly, because the expected value on a midranger is not the same.

You have to shoot 50% from 2 to equal the points created by shooting 33.3% from 3.

Pretty much nobody shoots 50% from midrange. Ingram, as we have heard non-stop, is in the 89th percentile as a midrange shooter, and that only equates to 43%. A slightly-crap three point shooter taking a 3 has a higher expected point value than an Ingram midranger. The only midrange shooters who are efficient enough from there to justify taking it over an open 3 are Kawhi and Durant, who both shoot at or around that 50% mark.

Points per shot > raw percentage. In fact, points per shot is what True Shooting is based on.

Anyway, carry on.

[13 - 3]

Part of it is Minty. The other part is that Clippers team is a tad overrated. They've only made 7 threes tonight and being badly out rebounded. Two things I'd keep my eye on with them.

Clippers overrated? Are you serious? Just wait till they get George back

[luckyman]

Then those coaches would be silly, because the expected value on a midranger is not the same.

You have to shoot 50% from 2 to equal the points created by shooting 33.3% from 3.

Pretty much nobody shoots 50% from midrange. Ingram, as we have heard non-stop, is in the 89th percentile as a midrange shooter, and that only equates to 43%. A slightly-crap three point shooter taking a 3 has a higher expected point value than an Ingram midranger. The only midrange shooters who are efficient enough from there to justify taking it over an open 3 are Kawhi and Durant, who both shoot at or around that 50% mark.

Points per shot > raw percentage. In fact, points per shot is what True Shooting is based on.

Anyway, carry on.

That math is ignoring the fact that you have more opportunities at mid range shots than you do from 3.

Most teams take more mid range shots than 3. And obviously, make more mid range shots than 3. There is obviously more value in going 4/10 from mid range than 2/5 from 3. And very few teams (if any) have half of all their shots come from 3 point range.

The fact of the matter is if you want to be a a good to elite player, then you need to be able to create and make mid range shots. This is an argument to no one except some folks on the internet.

[SonOfNOLA]

Part of it is Minty. The other part is that Clippers team is a tad overrated. They've only made 7 threes tonight and being badly out rebounded. Two things I'd keep my eye on with them.

Yeah no way Clippers lose to Phoenix if Paul George was on the floor with Kawhi. But dominant teams won’t dominate every game in a long season, especially after LAC played hard in double digit wins against the Lakers and Warriors

[luckyman]

Clippers overrated? Are you serious? Just wait till they get George back

Suns are doing this without Ayton.

[bahmamamba]

Suns are doing this without Ayton.

come on lol like ayton is anything special lol

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[luckyman]

come on lol like ayton is anything special lol

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Good night internet

[bahmamamba]

Good night internet

yes bc he's not just another good player and that's it lol you're right and everyone else is wrong lol

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[Pelicanidae]

This is an argument to no one except some folks on the internet.

And NBA analytics departments

Again, I will repeat: nobody with any kind of actual expertise is saying to never take any midrange shots ever. Especially not me. I'm not saying that. So this whole ''you need to be able to create and make mid range shots'' thing you're saying, as if I'm disagreeing, is kind of weird. I'm just saying that the midrange shot should never be the PRIORITY that you WORK FOR. It should be a tool you have to use when necessary, but if your game plan is ''I'm gonna get out there and hit 15 18 footers, it'll be great'' then you're thinking about the game wrong.

[Pelicanidae]

I just went back and looked at Harden's shot chart as well btw

Harden shot chart: 26th vs Pels pic.twitter.com/XKzWtEdviR

— Pelicanidae (@Pelicanidae1) October 27, 2019

Ouch.

Lots and lots and lots of X. Went 2 of 18 from 3. That's incredible and disgusting.