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Thread: Zion injury update?! {edited" Torn meniscus - out 6-8 weeks}

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Let's see what hot take is next.

    I say if he comes back and gets injured again it'll be..

    "Obviously the Pelicans can't keep him healthy." "They should trade him to the Knicks,...or Lakers for assets now...yeah that's it trade him now.".
    gotta love those narratives lol especially considering the only ppl who want to go to either of those teams are second tier guys

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  2. #302
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Given that Griff has said multiple times that they're working on flexibility and mobility, that they don't let him lift much because he adds weight too fast, that he was out of shape in Summer League and they pulled him from that to spend all summer working on his conditioning, and that he's clearly dropped weight now from even two months ago, I think it's very very very very very very safe to say that Aaron Nelson, NBA player trainer extraordinaire, has noticed that Zion's weight was too high and is bringing it down to levels he believes to be more sustainable.

    We do not know how much he weighs at this point in time. Maybe his weight IS being addressed. Certainly looks like it to me.
    Don't rain on some people's parade with logic!! We must have more incoherent speculation to keep this board alive, so just stop, please!

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Sitting him all year if he is healthy makes no sense whatsoever.

    Some of you just need to get used to the idea that he is a big boned big guy. He is ALWAYS going to look "fat" or "out of shape" to your eyes even when he is neither.

    Everytime he has an ordinary basketball injury to his legs or feet, you are going to blame his size even when that has nothing to do with it. Even this current injury is an impact injury when his knee hit the floor. But nope, he's too "big."

    Jaxson Hayes needs to sit all year. Zion Williamson does not.

    Good lord.
    He needs to sit ALL YEAR. It's called risk assessment. What do we have to gain by playing a guy that is supposed to be a all-time great player this year? We should allow him to get as close to peak physical shape as he can get into before putting him on the court. This is the second time he's being sat due to knee issues and he hasn't played 1 regular season game. Why risk what could be a generational talent. This isn't simply about the injury. It's about development both his game and body.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by kinglio21093 View Post
    I’m not a doctor, but I still think he needs to drop a few. He has a wide frame and he’s so athletic, it’s hard to see his body sustain his natural explosion, especially for someone who only knows how to move at 150 mph. Maybe that’s just me.
    It's not about being fat it's about being at peak physical shape for the task at hand. I don't know how anybody can argue that Zion is there. It matters more to him than most players because he's physically gifted in ways no player we've ever seen is gifted. It just common sense which doesn't seem all too common with some people. Not only should Zion drop 15lbs minimal and shouldn't be allowed back on the court until he's done so and any other physical workout to increase flexibility. There is zero reason to play him at all this season when you consider worse case scenario.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    He needs to sit ALL YEAR. It's called risk assessment. What do we have to gain by playing a guy that is supposed to be a all-time great player this year? We should allow him to get as close to peak physical shape as he can get into before putting him on the court. This is the second time he's being sat due to knee issues and he hasn't played 1 regular season game. Why risk what could be a generational talent. This isn't simply about the injury. It's about development both his game and body.
    Geezus ******** christ you can't be serious

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  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It's not about being fat it's about being at peak physical shape for the task at hand. I don't know how anybody can argue that Zion is there.
    David Griffin just did. Can't link the piece right now, but he even said to suggest that his weight or him not being in shape as the cause for this injury is "asinine."

    So unless you have Zion's body fat index or are privy to some medical information that I'm not, I'll side with Griff.

  7. #307
    If you ask Zion to sit out the entire season, you admit that nothing has changed with this franchise and alienate the fans even further. We need to build a winning culture. Zion will play if he is healthy

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    David Griffin just did. Can't link the piece right now, but he even said to suggest that his weight or him not being in shape as the cause for this injury is "asinine."

    So unless you have Zion's body fat index or are privy to some medical information that I'm not, I'll side with Griff.
    Basically this.

    The fact is, you (and me, we have the same info for the most part) know actually very little about the details of any players health. While it's true that we need to make sure Zion is fully healthy and okay before playing him, we don't actually have the information required ourselves to know when that is.

    Aaron Nelso and the crew do. They are trained in this, and they have Zion at hand to do any checks or tests or measures they may need. If they have him, right there, in the medical room and they say that he's
    1) In good physical shape, not fat
    And
    2) recovered and ready to play

    Then frankly, unless Zion steps out in the court looking like death warmed over, I don't have to knowledge on the specifics to argue with them. And neither do you.

    The fact is that you, da ThRONe, are worrying far much about this. If we're going to take the route of sitting Zion for the season whenever he gets a ding or a scratch in panic, we might as well his pay him $10m a year to just sit at home every season before almost nobody survives a full season unscathed by all scrapes and knocks.
    Basketball.

  9. #309
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    He needs to sit ALL YEAR. It's called risk assessment. What do we have to gain by playing a guy that is supposed to be a all-time great player this year? We should allow him to get as close to peak physical shape as he can get into before putting him on the court. This is the second time he's being sat due to knee issues and he hasn't played 1 regular season game. Why risk what could be a generational talent. This isn't simply about the injury. It's about development both his game and body.
    That is flat out ridiculous. Should we wrap him in bubble wrap as well? Are you suggestion that everytime he gets an injury, we should sit him for a season? Players do not get in peak physical condition by not playing.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    David Griffin just did. Can't link the piece right now, but he even said to suggest that his weight or him not being in shape as the cause for this injury is "asinine."

    So unless you have Zion's body fat index or are privy to some medical information that I'm not, I'll side with Griff.
    What part about it not being about fat don't you get??? If he is indeed carrying around 284lbs as the article suggests it doesn't matter if it's all muscle or all fat 284 is waaaaay too much.

    Nobody would ever call LeBron fat yet he knew he needed to slim down.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 10-22-2019 at 01:47 PM.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    That is flat out ridiculous. Should we wrap him in bubble wrap as well? Are you suggestion that everytime he gets an injury, we should sit him for a season? Players do not get in peak physical condition by not playing.
    Ofcourse not. This is about getting Zion to a more optimal body style given his physical abilities. Once we've done that then it's a different story.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Basically this.

    The fact is, you (and me, we have the same info for the most part) know actually very little about the details of any players health. While it's true that we need to make sure Zion is fully healthy and okay before playing him, we don't actually have the information required ourselves to know when that is.

    Aaron Nelso and the crew do. They are trained in this, and they have Zion at hand to do any checks or tests or measures they may need. If they have him, right there, in the medical room and they say that he's
    1) In good physical shape, not fat
    And
    2) recovered and ready to play

    Then frankly, unless Zion steps out in the court looking like death warmed over, I don't have to knowledge on the specifics to argue with them. And neither do you.

    The fact is that you, da ThRONe, are worrying far much about this. If we're going to take the route of sitting Zion for the season whenever he gets a ding or a scratch in panic, we might as well his pay him $10m a year to just sit at home every season before almost nobody survives a full season unscathed by all scrapes and knocks.
    I'm not "worrying" about anything. I've said from jump this team is deep enough for this.

    And Griff just confirmed everything I've been saying. Just because someone is 6'7" 285 that doesn't mean they are too fat or that they are out of shape. Everybody has a different body type and bone density.

    I literally have said that multiple times and Griff basically repeated all that just now. He even suggested Zion's body fat.

    I recommend people just go listen to the interview before saying anything else.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by bahmamamba View Post
    Geezus ******** christ you can't be serious

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    So being 284 creates the same stress on the body as 254? There's a huge difference. Which is why doctor suggest heavier people with bone issues lose weight.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    What part about it not being about fat don't you get??? If he is indeed carrying around 284lbs as the article suggests it doesn't matter if it's all muscle are all fat 284 is waaaaay too much.

    Nobody would ever call LeBron fat yet he knew he needed to slim down.
    That's just your personal uneducated opinion. You can use a large wrench that will loosen a bridge bolt, or use a small one that would snap in half. All wrenches ain't the same and all human bodies aren't the same.

    You are no longer arguing with me. You're arguing with the Pelicans VP of basketball ops and the training staff now.

    So have at it.

  15. #315
    When the hell did everyone become medical and nutrition al experts!!

    Everyone is talking out of their a** right now. Reminds me of the millions of lawyers on Twitter.

    Breathe people. Breathe.

    He’s 19 with professional medical staff supporting him 24/7. He’s gonna be fine.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    That's just your personal uneducated opinion. You can use a large wrench that will loosen a bridge bolt, or use a small one that would snap in half. All wrenches ain't the same and all human bodies aren't the same.

    You are no longer arguing with me. You're arguing with the Pelicans VP of basketball ops and the training staff now.

    So have at it.
    It not an opinion. More weight creates more stress on ones skeleton.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican View Post
    When the hell did everyone become medical and nutrition al experts!!

    Everyone is talking out of their a** right now. Reminds me of the millions of lawyers on Twitter.

    Breathe people. Breathe.

    He’s 19 with professional medical staff supporting him 24/7. He’s gonna be fine.

    I'm talking basic physics. You don't have to be a mathematician to know 2+2=4. The more weight a human being carries the more stress on their skeleton

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    I'm not "worrying" about anything. I've said from jump this team is deep enough for this.

    And Griff just confirmed everything I've been saying. Just because someone is 6'7" 285 that doesn't mean they are too fat or that they are out of shape. Everybody has a different body type and bone density.

    I literally have said that multiple times and Griff basically repeated all that just now. He even suggested Zion's body fat.

    I recommend people just go listen to the interview before saying anything else.
    I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was bouncing off what you were saying. I started by saying ''basically this'', because I was agreeing with you, and then continued on from your point, which is why I mentioned da ThRONe towards the end, just to clarify that I was talking about him when I mentioned worrying.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    What part about it not being about fat don't you get??? If he is indeed carrying around 284lbs as the article suggests it doesn't matter if it's all muscle or all fat 284 is waaaaay too much.

    Nobody would ever call LeBron fat yet he knew he needed to slim down.
    And here lies the real behind the curtain argument.

    Lebron is a perimeter player who came into the league being guarded by the likes of Keith Bogans. He’s in the mold of a SF/Guard. He makes constant cuts and darts as a smaller individual does.

    Zion is a big man who a team won’t dare to even put Demar Derozen on him as a defensive assignment. Zion has a small gallop when changing directions full court.

    Until people get this through their heads, they won’t understand how what they are talking about with Zions weight does not make sense. In the history of the league there has been 19 big man MVPs. 8 G/F.

    Let Zion be Zion

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It not an opinion. More weight creates more stress on ones skeleton.
    Assuming everyone has the same skeleton, which we clearly all do not. It's not a linear relationship. Which is why I keep mentioning things like bone density. And even skin melanin if you really want to get deep about that.

    But I digress. Griff spoke on it. Zion will be back in December. I'm over this topic. Should be a fun game tonight.

  21. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was bouncing off what you were saying. I started by saying ''basically this'', because I was agreeing with you, and then continued on from your point, which is why I mentioned da ThRONe towards the end, just to clarify that I was talking about him when I mentioned worrying.
    Ok gotcha.

  22. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It not an opinion. More weight creates more stress on ones skeleton.
    More weight creates more stress on a skeleton, but not all weight is the same, not all skeletons are the same, and what is considered acceptable stress depends on your goals and requirements.

    In order to make a reasonable assessment of a player's weight and what their goals should be, you need to be
    1) A trained medical professional and/or trainer in these issues
    2) In close proximity to the player, with actual access to their actual measurements rather than just guessing (like we largely are)
    3) Knowledgeable of their goals and aims.

    I'm not a doctor, and I'm not an NBA trainer. I'm going to take a guess that you aren't either: if you have a medical degree, feel free to point that out to me here.

    Neither of us have Zion's exact weight measurements, body fat measurements, etc etc.

    Neither of us actually know what the plan is between Nelson and Zion. For all we know, they've got a goal weight in mind and a steady plan to get him to it throughout the season, and panicking about it now isn't going to change that.

    As a result, your take very much is an opinion. So is mine. My opinion is that we should let the trained professionals with access to the player in question make the call.

  23. #323
    Just going to transcribe what Griff actually said in his media availability today:

    ''I've seen a lot of the narrative out there about him that this happened because he's not in shape and he's too big. That kid's a freak of nature. When he went through his physical, he ran on the treadmill longer than the cardio stress test people have ever needed to put anybody through a test to get his heart rate up. That happens because he's touched by the hand of God to do this.

    He's in elite condition. And he stays in elite condition. He also has a body type that we're learning how to deal with as a 19 year old kid: he can be 274lbs and 8.5% body fat. He can be 280lbs and 9% body fat. As we've gone through this process with our medical team, learning how to keep him lean and giving him the core strength, stability, and control that he needs to handle all of that torque he generates, typically that means that you're going to do things to strengthen those areas. In this case, he gains muscle mass so fast, and gains weight so fast, that nobody's ever dealt with anything like this before. So he's 19, it's going to be a learning experience for all of us, but the notion that this happened somehow because Zion's in poor condition is just asinine. He wasn't in poor condition when he went 12/13 against Utah. That's not what it is.

    He's just a very unique body type and certainly, from a physics perspective 'less weight/less torque' is a theory, I get it, but you take a guy like Blake Griffin who generated the enormous torque he did and the issues he had in his career, it took a while for him to find stasis in his body and we think that could be the same with Zion.''

    Says we're going to be cautious because this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon, and they're treating everyone with kid gloves. Says that they put out the timeline of 6-8 weeks, but they know Zion is going to be pushing to play a lot sooner than that, but that their job can be to protect guys from themselves and so they're not going to be rushing anything.


  24. #324
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    So being 284 creates the same stress on the body as 254? There's a huge difference. Which is why doctor suggest heavier people with bone issues lose weight.
    Yeah, but the typical person does not have the same muscle to absorb some of the impact. I trust that Nelson has a good idea of how to handle Zion and his weight/muscle distribution.

  25. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Just going to transcribe what Griff actually said in his media availability today:

    ''I've seen a lot of the narrative out there about him that this happened because he's not in shape and he's too big. That kid's a freak of nature. When he went through his physical, he ran on the treadmill longer than the cardio stress test people have ever needed to put anybody through a test to get his heart rate up. That happens because he's touched by the hand of God to do this.

    He's in elite condition. And he stays in elite condition. He also has a body type that we're learning how to deal with as a 19 year old kid: he can be 274lbs and 8.5% body fat. He can be 280lbs and 9% body fat. As we've gone through this process with our medical team, learning how to keep him lean and giving him the core strength, stability, and control that he needs to handle all of that torque he generates, typically that means that you're going to do things to strengthen those areas. In this case, he gains muscle mass so fast, and gains weight so fast, that nobody's ever dealt with anything like this before. So he's 19, it's going to be a learning experience for all of us, but the notion that this happened somehow because Zion's in poor condition is just asinine. He wasn't in poor condition when he went 12/13 against Utah. That's not what it is.

    He's just a very unique body type and certainly, from a physics perspective 'less weight/less torque' is a theory, I get it, but you take a guy like Blake Griffin who generated the enormous torque he did and the issues he had in his career, it took a while for him to find stasis in his body and we think that could be the same with Zion.''

    Says we're going to be cautious because this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon, and they're treating everyone with kid gloves. Says that they put out the timeline of 6-8 weeks, but they know Zion is going to be pushing to play a lot sooner than that, but that their job can be to protect guys from themselves and so they're not going to be rushing anything.

    Griff going off on these fools lol

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