Wow, I forgot how much I love lock-down Jrue. And is it just my man-crush or has he bulked-up a bit?
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Wow, I forgot how much I love lock-down Jrue. And is it just my man-crush or has he bulked-up a bit?
I think he may have done. In some videos and pictures it isn't really very noticeable, but then in others he looks absolutely jacked.Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp
Basketball.
Just been doing some advanced stats research on Jrue, just to take a look at how good he actually was over the last two seasons. Obviously we watched him a lot, and knew he was great, but I was surprised at how clearly the advanced stats agree.
I've talked a lot about Jrue having a ridiculous on-off number this last season: his on-off of +14.5 ranks very highly. Giannis' on-off was +8.8 this season, for comparison. Now, it's true that part of that is because of how few high quality players we had healthy on our team, meaning that when Jrue sat, his replacement was usually not very good at all, exaggerating the numbers. But it's not THAT much of a factor: for comparison again, Bradley Beal's on-off was only +2.5, and he played very well on a terrible team as well. Jrue's +14.5 is still absurd, even when you consider the weakness of his backups.
Then you look at some of the other advanced stats.
This last season, Jrue ranked 18th in the NBA in PIPM, one of the best metrics out there for measuring a player's impact. He ranked above Kyrie Irving, Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, KAT, Bradley Beal, Kemba Walker, and Jimmy Butler, just to name a few high profile players. He finished even higher in 2017-18, when he closed out the season ranked 15th in PIPM, tying with Jimmy Butler and posting a better score than Giannis, Gobert, Draymond, Ben Simmons, Kyrie, Paul George, and yes, Demarcus Cousins.
Jrue has been similarly well treated by RPM, another very good metric which adjusts for some of the issues normal BPM faces. In 2018-19, Jrue finished 17th in the NBA in RPM, 0.03 behind Rudy Gobert for 16th, and ranking higher than Kyrie Irving, KAT, Draymond, Kawhi, Blake Griffin, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, and Beal. The previous year, in 2017-18, he finished 22nd, beating out Cousins, Durant, PG13, and Simmons.
So basically, in two of the best metrics we have for estimating overall impact, Jrue has ranked 18th, 15th, 17th, and 22nd respectively over the last two years. There's pretty much no question that he's a top 20 player. That's awesome.
Jrue's needs an all-star appearance this year, for God's sake.
Further enhancing the argument for Jrue as a top 20 player: last season, he finished 21st in total wins added, with 9.6. That's tied with Bradley Beal, ahead of AD, Kyrie, Lebron, KAT, Kemba, Horford, CP3, Butler, and Donovan Mitchell.
The season before that, 2017-18, he finished 7th in total wins added, with 13.97. That's ahead of Giannis, Lillard, Curry, Draymond, CP3, Simmons, Jokic, Butler, Embiid, Klay, Gobert, and Beal. For comparison, that same year, the only names who finished ahead of him that year were Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, AD, KAT, and Kevin Durant.
The more I dig, the more the MVP idea starts to seem more plausible. Not in terms of actually winning the award because obviously that's hugely narrative driven, hype driven, etc, and Jrue might just not have the gaudiest box score in the league or media push, but in terms of his actual IMPACT on the game, MVP quality isn't unrealistic at all. He's finished top 10 in wins added, and finishes top 20 in PIPM and RPM fairly easily, and that was as the second option.
Glad to see most everyone is starting to come around on Lonzo. Not long who I had to defend him as not being the worst player in the NBA lol. Kid is going to be a star along with Ingram. Zo/Ingram > Brown/Tatum
I don't think anyone thought Lonzo was the worst player in the NBA. Hell, I think most of us thought he wasn't even the worst player in all the proposed Lakers trades: that was definitely Kuzma.
The thing about Lonzo is that there are definitely good sides. He's a very good passer, and a good defender. That's just true.
The problem is that there are definitely huge, huge, huge holes in his game which he desperately needs to fix before he can even begin to approach being a 'star'. One of them is his shot, which was broken. It seems that he's fixing that, which is pretty surprising because players usually don't undergo huge form changes several years into their career: that's why Shawn Marion shot so weirdly for his entire career, and why MKG's shot is still busted. You just can't expect people to make that change, because they usually don't.
In fact, he's not a good scorer in general: shooting 48% at the rim just isn't good enough. For comparison, Ricky Rubio (who is a famously terrible and inefficient scorer) shoots 58% at the rim, and a good finisher like Jrue shoots around 60% at the rim, and sometimes more (Jrue finished at 65.5% within 3 feet of the basket last season, and 67.1% the year before).
The second problem is that he's a historically awful free throw shooter. Again, we'll have to see if he fixes that, but it's still a problem he's had that's a real issue, and it's fair for people to be concerned about it.
The third problem is that he's massively injury prone. Maybe with Aaron Nelson working with him, those problems will be minimised in the future, but again, it's still a real problem that is extremely worrying. There's no way you can spin his injuries as a positive.
Lonzo has a lot of potential. The question is to whether he will ever live up to it through the fog of all of his flaws. I hope he does, because he's on our team now and if he doesn't improve then we're stuck with him. That doesn't mean that the concerns about his game aren't real.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 08-28-2019 at 09:25 AM.
Josh Hart and DWade
https://www.facebook.com/SportsCente...7842521787746/
saw that and maaaaan I'm loving all of this offseason every single of these guys have something to prove and they are going all in
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Would love to see something from Ingram, at this point.
We haven't seem much for our rookies, but we know they've been spending a lot of time together, and we know that Griff has them in the lab with the trainers to get prepared for their rookie season. We've seen tons of clips of Frank Jackson, Jahlil Okafor, and Jrue Holiday working out all summer. We had the Lonzo training videos come out, and now Hart.
Are we going to see anything from Ingram? I think the Pels instagram posted a picture of him a week or two ago, so presumably he's able to do at least some training by this point, right?
All the headlines from the middle of July say that Ingram is "close to resuming normal workouts". He just might be a private guy and is working his tail off without all the social media attention.
I hope so. Obviously that's totally possible, and it could be that Ingram has been training non-stop for a few weeks now, which would be great. It's just kind of worrying to have such a huge blackout surrounding him when we're relying on him to soak up a fairly important role this year, and are going to have to pay him next year if we want him to stay. Would be nice to at least get confirmation that he's fine and in workouts, that's all.
Contributor
Ingram could just be a guy who isn't super about being recorded working out. I don't know anything.
For sure, I do get that. I just wish we could have that confirmation so that the lingering worry could be put to rest.
Josh Hart in the lab wit D Wade
— Pelicans Gang CEO #6Seed (@TALKINGBIRDS) August 28, 2019
pic.twitter.com/1ozvcvL8mM
One thing I like a lot, a kind of small point that just sticks out to me, is how when Wade is talking about how you look off a big who is coming over from the weakside, the name he drops as an example big is Anthony Davis.
Maybe I'm just playing armchair psychologist here, but I feel like Wade knew what he was doing when he mentioned AD to Hart, who literally got traded for him. Just a little extra motivation, to picture that guy as the enemy.
I’m not dissing anybody I loved my time in LA. I use my music as an outlet to express things that happen in my life #50and30 out now! Let me know y’all favorite track ���� pic.twitter.com/xBhI3Ld6ZK
— Lonzo Ball (@ZO2_) August 29, 2019
This isn't really a ''workout'', but it's off-season and somewhat relevant.
Lonzo in a new song drops the lines ''You know I'm all about the business/L.A. is going to regret their decision''.
Sounds like there's a little bit of a chip on the shoulder, there. Combined with all we've heard from Lonzo about him being able to play the way he wants to play again, as well as the reworking of his shot, I'm hoping this could be a big year for Lonzo.
Now imagine if he turns out how the Lakers and magic hyped him up to be
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Well, the Lakers were hyping him up to be ''Magic with a jumpshot''. I currently have Magic 4th all time, so if he turns out to be Magic with a jumpshot, he's a lock for the GOAT.Now imagine if he turns out how the Lakers and magic hyped him up to be
Obviously that's not really what you meant though, I get itWith how guard heavy the league is, with how many good guards there are, and with how many promising guards are going to come into the NBA soon (just next draft alone will bring at least 5, very promising guards, including Lonzo's brother), I don't know if Lonzo will ever be an allstar. But if he can be a slightly better finisher, slightly better three point shooter, and slightly more aggressive driver, he could easily be 15/6/8 with all-defensive abilities. That's a great player, and I would love to have them.
The only way Lonzo really explodes like the Lakers thought he would is if his new shot really works out, and he becomes a 40% 3pt shooter. If that happens then yeah, he could be extremely special.
man I just want it to happen for the laker tears well and obviously it'll be good for us lolWell, the Lakers were hyping him up to be ''Magic with a jumpshot''. I currently have Magic 4th all time, so if he turns out to be Magic with a jumpshot, he's a lock for the GOAT.
Obviously that's not really what you meant though, I get it
The only way Lonzo really explodes like the Lakers thought he would is if his new shot really works out, and he becomes a 40% 3pt shooter. If that happens then yeah, he could be extremely special.
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Last edited by bahmamamba; 08-29-2019 at 09:57 PM.
I mean, wow. pic.twitter.com/h9OCAexZ9b
— Rafal Kamienski (@rkamienski) August 30, 2019
Zion looking very slim indeed at the Tulane game yesterday
oh no wait for the "the black is covering it up he's still over weight" lol
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I'm kinda worried
wait till he actually gets his " man" body as they call it lol dude is gonna be a dark of nature lolI'm kinda worried
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Anybody that knows Lebron... knows that he dominates the ball. Lonzo is a point guard that facilitates, and he'll never be a "stand in the corner and watch" kind of player. He's a playmaker... playmakers make plays they're not spot-up shooters. I can't wait to see these young guys out in transition its gonna be fun to watch. I just hope it equates to W's.
This isn't entirely true. Lonzo is actually a very good off-ball player in many ways: he cuts very well, and regularly, when off-ball, and he's a fantastic secondary passer. If you force him to play on-ball the entire time he's on the court then you lose a lot of his value in that way, because he's not a particularly good slasher, and he isn't that good at breaking down set defense in the half-court. At least not at this point in his career. Adding the ability to shoot well off the ball is just an obvious next step in that aspect of his game.
If he wants to take that jump into the next level, he will have to improve as a scorer at essentially all levels of the game. Being a better shooter stretches defenses and helps the rest of the team, and being a better driver and finisher gives him the ability to collapse a defense (which in turn generates passing opportunities that he can exploit).
Lonzo doesn't have to be a ''stand in the corner and watch'' kind of player. But he does need to be the kind of player who defenses can't just ignore completely when he's on the perimeter. Which, right now, they can.
Bell Biv Devoe?
Sup @LSUfootball �� @Zionwilliamson @hayes_jaxson @TheReal_NAW1 pic.twitter.com/k76FnZIbts
— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) August 31, 2019
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