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Thread: Boogie tore ACL

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by BigChris504 View Post
    I respectfully disagree with you Pelicanidae. I don't even think he was even going to start for them. I don't think people (casual fans maybe) honestly thought he would contribute "top form" or preinjury boogie. That's just unrealistic, he also didn't look awful at all in the playoffs couple games imo, he honestly looked pretty good in some games. His legs are giving out, not his I.Q. or his skillset only his ability to perform at lesser level is the only adjustments he needed to make.

    Side note, Boogie gained mad respect from me when he decided to bet on himself. Sure it's a risk and boy did he crap out like a bad night at Harrah's, but as a man in this world the only person that know's your exact worth IS YOU. So I cant put on a cape and pretend to be captain hindsight cause homie did what he thought would benefit him and his family in the long run.
    I think he looked good in game 2 of the finals, the one in which he basically led them to the win, but aside from that he was poor. The lack of mobility he had at that time, being rushed back from the quad tear, was really really obvious and he was just a traffic cone on defense at best. Really poor showing, although obviously most of it was not his fault. I don't want to lean on +/- too hard, because it is a very flawed stat, but there's a reason that game 2 was his only game with a positive +/- though.

    There were at least a fair number of people who thought he was be a 20/10 guy, or very very close to it. Even Nichols, who obviously doesn't agree with me on this, said he ''hoped he could at least be 70% of what he once was''*. Well, 70% of prime Cousins is something like 19/9/4 with stretch ability. That's a top 50 player, even with poor defense: hell, that's basically Julius Randle from last year (21/8/3). That's super high expectations, and at least a decent enough proportion of Lakers fans believed something like that was likely as to be noticeable to someone who doesn't even visit Lakers spaces very often (me).


    *Note that Nichols said hoped, not expected. Just to clarify that in case the thinks I'm misrepresenting him: he didn't expect 70% of prime Cousins, he said he hoped for it, which is obviously different.
    Basketball.

  2. #52
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    I wasn't sure what to expect, some people say you can come back from his previous injury and still be effective. Others said it was unlikely, especially considering his weight and age. He also wasn't all that mobile to begin with.

    I was probably being overly optimistic with the 70%. Cause I don't think he's a 20/10 guy anymore. Would have been happy with him not being a complete disaster on defense while producing 10 to 12 PPG in limited minutes.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    I wasn't sure what to expect, some people say you can come back from his previous injury and still be effective. Others said it was unlikely, especially considering his weight and age. He also wasn't all that mobile to begin with.

    I was probably being overly optimistic with the 70%. Cause I don't think he's a 20/10 guy anymore. Would have been happy with him not being a complete disaster on defense while producing 10 to 12 PPG in limited minutes.
    You're right that he wasn't ever particularly mobile.

    Honestly, watching Cousins when he was here was extremely frustrating. There's no question that, at least before the Achilles rupture, he was a super talented player, but his style of play was one that I don't think gives you too much room in the ceiling, at least with him as a centre piece. For a guy who passes so well, he was remarkably prone to ball hogging and forcing offense sometimes, and he was never a strong defender on the Pelicans. Didn't watch him enough early in SAC to judge there, but his relatively slow feet, lack of lateral quickness, and tendency to lose his man always showed up and led to many frustrating possessions.

    After the Achilles tear, quad rupture, and now ACL tear, all in the left leg, I don't know if I'll be able to stomach watching him on defense ever again. He's going to be like 2002 Ewing without the positional IQ. Which is terrifying.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    You're right that he wasn't ever particularly mobile.

    Honestly, watching Cousins when he was here was extremely frustrating. There's no question that, at least before the Achilles rupture, he was a super talented player, but his style of play was one that I don't think gives you too much room in the ceiling, at least with him as a centre piece. For a guy who passes so well, he was remarkably prone to ball hogging and forcing offense sometimes, and he was never a strong defender on the Pelicans. Didn't watch him enough early in SAC to judge there, but his relatively slow feet, lack of lateral quickness, and tendency to lose his man always showed up and led to many frustrating possessions.

    After the Achilles tear, quad rupture, and now ACL tear, all in the left leg, I don't know if I'll be able to stomach watching him on defense ever again. He's going to be like 2002 Ewing without the positional IQ. Which is terrifying.
    So much for watching a game occasionally and monitoring box scores. I thought he was a monster when he was playing with the Pels lol..

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    So much for watching a game occasionally and monitoring box scores. I thought he was a monster when he was playing with the Pels lol..
    Oh, he definitely put up monster numbers, and there were some games that he was fantastic. I'm not insulting what he did while he was in a Pels uniform: overall, he played very well, and there was far more good than bad, and that goes double for his offense.

    The issue is, at least for me, is that when you show you can do it, I want you to do it.

    Take Westbrook and Curry for example. I know Curry is a not-very-good man to man defender. He isn't good at it overall. He was mocked for calling for switches off of Fred VanVleet in the finals, and yeah, that's pretty wimpy. But I've seen him try to defend people, and it just isn't good, so at least he understands his limitations and works with them. That's fine.

    By contrast, Westbrook is a poor defender a lot of the time, and I cannot forgive it in the same way that I give Curry a pass, because I know Westbrook can do it. I've seen him play smart, aggressive, smothering defense on other guards from time to time. He is fully capable, it's just that much of the time, he can't be bothered. Takes too much energy away that he could be using to nick rebounds from Steven Adams, I guess. That's frustrating to me. Not fine with it.

    Boogie was frustrating that way. He was never going to be Hakeem Olajuwon on defense, but he was perfectly capable of playing at least reasonable defense when he could be bothered. Just couldn't be bothered very often, is the issue.

    It's worth noting that I find lacklustre defense a lot more of an issue than a lot of people, so maybe there are others who didn't care about Cousins phoning it in on D.

  6. #56
    The single worst thing about Boogie was that he would literally never get back on defense. He was always complaining to refs or sort of loafing. He would single-handedly create a 5-on-4 any time the other team felt like pushing.

    His combination of strength, touch, and skill was unreal. But he had all of these habits that made him a really hard player to win with.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Oh, he definitely put up monster numbers, and there were some games that he was fantastic. I'm not insulting what he did while he was in a Pels uniform: overall, he played very well, and there was far more good than bad, and that goes double for his offense.

    The issue is, at least for me, is that when you show you can do it, I want you to do it.

    Take Westbrook and Curry for example. I know Curry is a not-very-good man to man defender. He isn't good at it overall. He was mocked for calling for switches off of Fred VanVleet in the finals, and yeah, that's pretty wimpy. But I've seen him try to defend people, and it just isn't good, so at least he understands his limitations and works with them. That's fine.

    By contrast, Westbrook is a poor defender a lot of the time, and I cannot forgive it in the same way that I give Curry a pass, because I know Westbrook can do it. I've seen him play smart, aggressive, smothering defense on other guards from time to time. He is fully capable, it's just that much of the time, he can't be bothered. Takes too much energy away that he could be using to nick rebounds from Steven Adams, I guess. That's frustrating to me. Not fine with it.

    Boogie was frustrating that way. He was never going to be Hakeem Olajuwon on defense, but he was perfectly capable of playing at least reasonable defense when he could be bothered. Just couldn't be bothered very often, is the issue.

    It's worth noting that I find lacklustre defense a lot more of an issue than a lot of people, so maybe there are others who didn't care about Cousins phoning it in on D.
    I see, I always thought his defensive woes were due to his lack of mobility. I would agree that inconsistent effort is inexcusable.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    The single worst thing about Boogie was that he would literally never get back on defense. He was always complaining to refs or sort of loafing. He would single-handedly create a 5-on-4 any time the other team felt like pushing.

    His combination of strength, touch, and skill was unreal. But he had all of these habits that made him a really hard player to win with.
    I could be wrong about this but.. I think coaches are partly to blame for players that aren't bringing it in the effort department. Or for players that have demonstrated the ability to be real difference makers, but their analytics tell a different story.

    For example, I don't know that Parker and Ginobili would be the same players they developed into if it weren't for coach Pop.

  9. #59
    Laker fans are sweating about pissing off AD by playing him at the 5, now. AD wasn't particularly thrilled to play the 5 and he do it coch wants him too. lol

    AD is so finesse.Granted, if there 2020 FA team with a MAX slot and franchise center. AD could bolt, but I doubt it.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    I see, I always thought his defensive woes were due to his lack of mobility. I would agree that inconsistent effort is inexcusable.
    That was partially it, but what Boogie lacked in burst and verticality, he had in a very high level talent for reading lanes, anticipation, and quick hands. Sometimes he would engage all of those things, and while his swipes at the ball for steals were always a little strange for a guy of his height (much more typical defensive strategy for guards), when he was alert and making those reads consistently it helped compensate somewhat for his grounded game and lack of burst.

    Other days, he just got stuck ballwatching and losing his man, which is really disappointing to see from anyone, but especially star calibre players.

    That was always a problem with AD as well. Far less of an issue than with Boogie, of course, and AD has much more vertical burst and lateral mobility than Boogie has ever had, and as a result can have games where he finished with 4 steals and 5 blocks despite never really seeming engaged on defense, but there have been times (check the games from just after Boogie went down, for example) where he just looks like he's half-asleep. Sheer physical gifts and instinct let him get away with that a lot more than some other people can, but it was still frustrating to see when you know where his ceiling is.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That was partially it, but what Boogie lacked in burst and verticality, he had in a very high level talent for reading lanes, anticipation, and quick hands. Sometimes he would engage all of those things, and while his swipes at the ball for steals were always a little strange for a guy of his height (much more typical defensive strategy for guards), when he was alert and making those reads consistently it helped compensate somewhat for his grounded game and lack of burst.

    Other days, he just got stuck ballwatching and losing his man, which is really disappointing to see from anyone, but especially star calibre players.

    That was always a problem with AD as well. Far less of an issue than with Boogie, of course, and AD has much more vertical burst and lateral mobility than Boogie has ever had, and as a result can have games where he finished with 4 steals and 5 blocks despite never really seeming engaged on defense, but there have been times (check the games from just after Boogie went down, for example) where he just looks like he's half-asleep. Sheer physical gifts and instinct let him get away with that a lot more than some other people can, but it was still frustrating to see when you know where his ceiling is.
    A coach Sloan/Pop type would rectify that issue. I think coaches are also partly to blame for lackluster effort.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    A coach Sloan/Pop type would rectify that issue. I think coaches are also partly to blame for lackluster effort.
    Possibly, at least to some extent. But then you also have to contend with the reality that the same coach AD and Boogie were lazy lacklustre under is the same coach that Jrue Holiday puts his nose to the grindstone for. I'm not the world's biggest Gentry fan (as a coach, he seems awesome as a person) but there's only so much a coach can do to get players to buy in. If Jrue Holiday is gonna buy in, and Nikola Mirotic was going to buy in, and (as flawed a player as he was) Julius Randle was going to buy in, then it's clearly an issue with AD/Cousins. Maybe that's an issue which is compounded by the coach; it's totally possible that maybe Jrue just fits with Gentry better than AD does, but then you get down to the issue of self motivation.

    If you're the centrepiece of the team, the franchise player, face of the city, being paid dozens of millions of dollars every year and proclaiming yourself the best player in the world, then you should have the guts and the pride in yourself to play like it. The coach can do a lot for you, but they can't make you care. That's something you have to bring to the court yourself.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Possibly, at least to some extent. But then you also have to contend with the reality that the same coach AD and Boogie were lazy lacklustre under is the same coach that Jrue Holiday puts his nose to the grindstone for. I'm not the world's biggest Gentry fan (as a coach, he seems awesome as a person) but there's only so much a coach can do to get players to buy in. If Jrue Holiday is gonna buy in, and Nikola Mirotic was going to buy in, and (as flawed a player as he was) Julius Randle was going to buy in, then it's clearly an issue with AD/Cousins. Maybe that's an issue which is compounded by the coach; it's totally possible that maybe Jrue just fits with Gentry better than AD does, but then you get down to the issue of self motivation.

    If you're the centrepiece of the team, the franchise player, face of the city, being paid dozens of millions of dollars every year and proclaiming yourself the best player in the world, then you should have the guts and the pride in yourself to play like it. The coach can do a lot for you, but they can't make you care. That's something you have to bring to the court yourself.
    Touche.. That's totally valid. Especially the Jrue angle..

  14. #64
    Don't you agree with him. Keep this thing going!
    Good positive energy.

    But also, yo mama's fat.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Don't you agree with him. Keep this thing going!
    lol.. Based on what I've seen thus far he's the mvp of this forum.. I didn't mean to come off as disagreeable or antagonistic.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    lol.. Based on what I've seen thus far he's the mvp of this forum.. I didn't mean to come off as disagreeable or antagonistic.
    Nah, I don't think you seemed antagonistic at all. It's all respect, we're discussing basketball because we both love the sport but there's nothing personal in it.

    I'll take being called the MVP though there are some people on this board who would disagree very strongly with that, so I'll take it while it's being offered

  17. #67


    Dwight Howard back to LA to replace Cousins

    haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  18. #68
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    whoever put the Voodoo curse on Boogie please release it now, this has gone too far

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