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Thread: Westbrook to Houston CP3 to Thunder

  1. #51
    It makes no sense for OKC to trade CP3 to Miami, just like it didn’t make sense for OKC to trade Westbrook to Miami.

    OKC holds Miami’s 2021 and 2023 unprotected draft picks. By making Miami better those draft picks will lose value. Even if CP3 is a bad contract eventually he will come off the books, but those draft picks won’t get better if Miami has a good team.
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  2. #52
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

  3. #53
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    i know its a lot of houston hate on this board lol but yall know houston is a better team now......westbrook called harden to talk about being teaming up and we know they played good together in OKC.....

    westbrook took a back seat to pg13 last season so he can do it with harden who he played with before so its not that hard for them to get along...

    who can guard those 2 in the back court?...houston whole team is coming back without a slow cp3.....houston just made it harder for the clippers and utah to get that top seed...

    they both are iso players but im thinking all of the bad talk about westbrook going around that it may humble westbrook to where they figure it out and be focus on winning it all....

    the western conference playoffs will be the best in awhile and i cant wait for it.....i just hope we can get the 8th seed now that OKC is out....

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    westbrook took a back seat to pg13 last season
    I've never really understood where this narrative came from this season. Westbrook averaged 20.2 shots a game this year. PG13 averaged 21. That's not ''taking a step back'', Westbrook gave up ONE shot per game. The extra shots PG13 was taking came from other guys, not Westbrook.

    Westbrook's usage rate this year was 30.9%. PG13's was 29.5%. That means that, when it comes down to it, Westbrook had the ball in his hands more than PG13 did, even if only a little.

    This idea that Westbrook took a back seat is absurd. People see that Westbrook was averaging fewer points this year than last, and they seem to just think that if he scored less, it's cause he took a smaller role. Not true. He scored less because his efficiency dipped yet again, so his shots made less points.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    who can guard those 2 in the back court?
    Who can those 2 guard in the back court?

    I get what you're saying, and I do think there is a chance for Houston to be good offensively this year, but it would have to be because Harden would be willing to accept a more off-ball role on offense. Cause if we try and get off-ball, spot up shooting Westbrook... that's not going to be pretty. Harden can shoot, so he can fit into that mentality more easily. But if Harden wants to dribble in iso for 20 seconds at the top of the key for another year, it's not going to be fun.

    The only way Houston gets a better seed than Utah or Denver this year is if the Jazz/Nuggets do heavy load management. Both teams are deeper, more versatile, better defensively, and have cleaner offensive fits.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 07-12-2019 at 12:26 PM.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    He did mean parity, right? Or was that veiled sarcasm?

  6. #56
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JJackisangry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    It makes no sense for OKC to trade CP3 to Miami, just like it didn’t make sense for OKC to trade Westbrook to Miami.

    OKC holds Miami’s 2021 and 2023 unprotected draft picks. By making Miami better those draft picks will lose value. Even if CP3 is a bad contract eventually he will come off the books, but those draft picks won’t get better if Miami has a good team.
    CP3 pouting like a baby doesn’t really hurt OKC’s rebuild anyway. I’m not sure they even need to move him unless somebody will literally take him for free out of desperation. They can sit tight.

  7. #57
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    i know its a lot of houston hate on this board lol but yall know houston is a better team now......westbrook called harden to talk about being teaming up and we know they played good together in OKC.....

    westbrook took a back seat to pg13 last season so he can do it with harden who he played with before so its not that hard for them to get along...

    who can guard those 2 in the back court?...houston whole team is coming back without a slow cp3.....houston just made it harder for the clippers and utah to get that top seed...

    they both are iso players but im thinking all of the bad talk about westbrook going around that it may humble westbrook to where they figure it out and be focus on winning it all....

    the western conference playoffs will be the best in awhile and i cant wait for it.....i just hope we can get the 8th seed now that OKC is out....
    Exactly! I find it kind of funny how people wanna sit here and act like the Rockets are trash. All because they havenít been able to get past one of the best teams in NBA history with the Warriors? They just got rid of an aging PG in CP3 for an MVP caliber PG in the prime of his career. Westbrook like you said adapted his game a little for PG13 which he can do with one of his best friends James Harden. The Rockets after the All-Star break had the best record in the NBA. On the last day of the season they dropped from the 2nd seed to the 4th seed. But yea the couple of know it all arm chair GMs around here seem to have a better grasp on that team then Morey. LoL! If your opinion doesnít agree then your an idiot and be prepared for a bunch of useless stats thrown out to back it up.. I donít like the Rockets either but there is no doubt that team got better and they arenít done making moves.
    Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 07-12-2019 at 05:28 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I've never really understood where this narrative came from this season. Westbrook averaged 20.2 shots a game this year. PG13 averaged 21. That's not ''taking a step back'', Westbrook gave up ONE shot per game. The extra shots PG13 was taking came from other guys, not Westbrook.

    Westbrook's usage rate this year was 30.9%. PG13's was 29.5%. That means that, when it comes down to it, Westbrook had the ball in his hands more than PG13 did, even if only a little.

    This idea that Westbrook took a back seat is absurd. People see that Westbrook was averaging fewer points this year than last, and they seem to just think that if he scored less, it's cause he took a smaller role. Not true. He scored less because his efficiency dipped yet again, so his shots made less points.



    Who can those 2 guard in the back court?

    I get what you're saying, and I do think there is a chance for Houston to be good offensively this year, but it would have to be because Harden would be willing to accept a more off-ball role on offense. Cause if we try and get off-ball, spot up shooting Westbrook... that's not going to be pretty. Harden can shoot, so he can fit into that mentality more easily. But if Harden wants to dribble in iso for 20 seconds at the top of the key for another year, it's not going to be fun.

    The only way Houston gets a better seed than Utah or Denver this year is if the Jazz/Nuggets do heavy load management. Both teams are deeper, more versatile, better defensively, and have cleaner offensive fits.


    i believe westbrook will be humble and play more to his strengths and attack more and leave the shooting to the shooters on the team......he knows harden will take the last shot to win games....this is a team that he wanted to go to so i think he see the big picture......im shaking my head at the fouls that will be called for them..........

    and the good part about this is that houston is another road block for AD and the lakers lol..

  9. #59
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    CP3 pouting like a baby doesn’t really hurt OKC’s rebuild anyway. I’m not sure they even need to move him unless somebody will literally take him for free out of desperation. They can sit tight.
    I think CP3 will definitely get moved. IMO it is going to be Miami. The Thunder can maybe get a 1st round pick and a young asset from the Heat where I think he would be a great fit. Makes very little sense for the Thunder to hold onto him for 3 years. Sure the Heat might have a better record with him but the same can be said for the Thunder who will be taking a hit to their own draft picks if he stays on the team. As an NBA fan I would like to see him go to the Heat as well. I was only able to find 3 teams that actually make sense to bring in CP3. I think the Heat, Mavs, and Suns would all be a great fit for him and I could see each of those teams trying to acquire him. The Heat have already expressed interest showing they are already interested. The Suns have a team that could really use a PG like CP3 taking pressure off of Booker and helping Ayton as a big mans best friend. The Mavs would be going a similar route as they did with Kidd and give Doncic/Porzingis a great compliment to their games as well. JMO but I think those 3 teams have the best chances to go after Paul.

  10. #60
    Does anyone feel sorry for CP3? Teams are kicking him to curb now? Apparently OKC really does not want him.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    Does anyone feel sorry for CP3? Teams are kicking him to curb now? Apparently OKC really does not want him.
    According to wiki Chris Paul net worth is over 100 million dollars....have to say i dont feel sorry for him one bit.

  12. #62
    So the argument for the Rockets being good next season are based on either a Rockets team from two seasons ago (ignoring that they were not the same team this last season) and/or Westbrook suddenly becoming humble.

    Ok.

    And yeah. I don't feel sorry for CP3. The closest thing I have feelings-wise towards him is the the Simpson's Nelson character saying "ha ha".

  13. #63
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    So the argument for the Rockets being good next season are based on either a Rockets team from two seasons ago (ignoring that they were not the same team this last season) and/or Westbrook suddenly becoming humble.

    Ok.

    And yeah. I don't feel sorry for CP3. The closest thing I have feelings-wise towards him is the the Simpson's Nelson character saying "ha ha".
    Or maybe just the Rockets team from last season.. After the all star break they finished with the best record in the NBA. They were the 2 seed up until the last day of the season where they fell to the 4 seed. They just added has 3 straight seasons with a triple double, a 2 time scoring champ, and NBA MVP in the prime of his career to take over for CP3. They will also have a much healthier and better Clint Capella returning. The argument I am making that they will be a very good team and more then likely an improved team this season isn’t all that stupid. Acting like Westbrook makes them worse and they are some trash team is. The only team that has made them look bad is the Warriors.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    So the argument for the Rockets being good next season are based on either a Rockets team from two seasons ago (ignoring that they were not the same team this last season) and/or Westbrook suddenly becoming humble.

    Ok.

    And yeah. I don't feel sorry for CP3. The closest thing I have feelings-wise towards him is the the Simpson's Nelson character saying "ha ha".
    I also think there's an element of 2k thinking going on. People saying ''Westbrook is better than CP3, therefore replacing CP3 with Westbrook immediately equals better'', which just isn't true. Good team-building isn't always just adding up allstar appearances and nodding your head.

    Chris Paul, for all of his many, many, many problems, had several advantages that make him better in a D'Antoni system than Westbrook projects to be. To start with, he's a much better shooter. Despite his age, he's also a better defender (because Westbrook can't be bothered most of the time: locked in Westbrook is better at this point, it's just rare that we see that) and while it's true that Westbrook is a good passer, he still lacks the sheer vision that CP3 has. That's the kind of thing you can't teach.

    Westbrook is also on a very visible decline. He's shot worse from 3 and from the FT line each of the last three years. He fouled more this year than any other year in his career. He had his worst net rating since his second year, and his net rating has gone down every year since 2015-16. His BPM has gone down for three straight years. His WS/48 have gone done down for three straight years. His VORP has dropped for three straight years. Both his PER and his TS% have dropped for 3 straight years.

    That doesn't mean that the Rockets will be unquestionably worse. It depends on how Harden and Westbrook are used. If Westbrook can be put more on ball and be directed to drive, with Harden more willing to take on that ''shooter'' mentality rather than ball-handler, it could work. But there's a very real possibility that Harden refuses to move to a more off-ball role, and that Westbrook is encouraged to play the Morey Ball style of jacking up threes, and that that leads to a disgustingly awful offense that (like D'Antoni's system generally does) works well enough to make the playoffs but gets snuffed out as soon as crunch time appears.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    So the argument for the Rockets being good next season are based on either a Rockets team from two seasons ago (ignoring that they were not the same team this last season) and/or Westbrook suddenly becoming humble.

    Ok.

    And yeah. I don't feel sorry for CP3. The closest thing I have feelings-wise towards him is the the Simpson's Nelson character saying "ha ha".

    smh lol....the rockets would be in the playoffs with cp3 if he was still on the team and i think you believe that........getting rid of cp3 and adding a attack dog made them better than the team they had last season and i think honest people believe this also...........adding westbrook period make houston a better team over last season team but time will tell...

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I also think there's an element of 2k thinking going on. People saying ''Westbrook is better than CP3, therefore replacing CP3 with Westbrook immediately equals better'', which just isn't true. Good team-building isn't always just adding up allstar appearances and nodding your head.

    Chris Paul, for all of his many, many, many problems, had several advantages that make him better in a D'Antoni system than Westbrook projects to be. To start with, he's a much better shooter. Despite his age, he's also a better defender (because Westbrook can't be bothered most of the time: locked in Westbrook is better at this point, it's just rare that we see that) and while it's true that Westbrook is a good passer, he still lacks the sheer vision that CP3 has. That's the kind of thing you can't teach.

    Westbrook is also on a very visible decline. He's shot worse from 3 and from the FT line each of the last three years. He fouled more this year than any other year in his career. He had his worst net rating since his second year, and his net rating has gone down every year since 2015-16. His BPM has gone down for three straight years. His WS/48 have gone done down for three straight years. His VORP has dropped for three straight years. Both his PER and his TS% have dropped for 3 straight years.

    That doesn't mean that the Rockets will be unquestionably worse. It depends on how Harden and Westbrook are used. If Westbrook can be put more on ball and be directed to drive, with Harden more willing to take on that ''shooter'' mentality rather than ball-handler, it could work. But there's a very real possibility that Harden refuses to move to a more off-ball role, and that Westbrook is encouraged to play the Morey Ball style of jacking up threes, and that that leads to a disgustingly awful offense that (like D'Antoni's system generally does) works well enough to make the playoffs but gets snuffed out as soon as crunch time appears.

    lol come on stop it lol.....they talked about playing together again and thats part of the reason why the trade happen.....they had to have a convo on how to make it work.....

    cp3 is not a better defender than westbrook......harden ran the team before cp3 and im guessing he we run the team with westbrook playing off the ball.....call it 2k thinking all you want to but replacing cp3 point production with westbrook makes houston better because the system is gear to out scoring the opp.........but im going to leave it alone because we will revisit this in the middle and end of the season along with the ingram thing when it matters....

  17. #67
    I just don't see how you can play Westbrook off ball. His best attribute is his ability to attack the rim. He didn't earn the nickname Westbrick because he was a great off ball player.

    My guess is much like they did with CP3 during the season, they are going to try and keep Harden and Westbrook apart as much as possible.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    smh lol....the rockets would be in the playoffs with cp3 if he was still on the team and i think you believe that........getting rid of cp3 and adding a attack dog made them better than the team they had last season and i think honest people believe this also...........adding westbrook period make houston a better team over last season team but time will tell...

    Just think at one point OKC had Durant,Harden, Westbrook on the same team.

  19. #69
    The Rockets will be a better team this year with Westbrook over CP3. They should be a top 5 team. The Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets, Lakers, Rockets, Blazers, & Warriors should be locks for the playoffs IMO. The 8th seed right now looks like it could be between the Spurs, Thunder, Kings, and possibly us. CP3 hasn’t played more than 61 games the last 3 years while Westbrook has been healthy his whole career pretty much. If the Thunder move CP3 they will likely be out of contention for that last playoff spot unless they get a couple of good players back that complement SGA, Gallinari, Adams, & Schroder.

    This year the Rockets have the best chance at a title in quite some time with Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Clint Capela, Eric Gordon, PJ Tucker, Tyson Chandler, Gerald Green, Austin Rivers, & Daniel House Jr. Thats not a bad squad at all.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I just don't see how you can play Westbrook off ball. His best attribute is his ability to attack the rim. He didn't earn the nickname Westbrick because he was a great off ball player.

    My guess is much like they did with CP3 during the season, they are going to try and keep Harden and Westbrook apart as much as possible.
    They're going to have to. My assumption is that they try to play each of them only around 32, 33 minutes a game, meaning that they cross over in as few minutes as practically possible. That does put more pressure on Eric Gordon though: now he has to be The Role Guy for two different players with two differing styles.

    You can't play Westbrook off the ball. At least, it's not something he's shown the ability to do up until now in his career. It's going to have to be Harden who takes that back seat: partially because he has done it before in OKC, and partially because he can actually shoot. The issue is that Harden has spent the last three years averaging 36% Usage Rate. Westbrook over the last 3 years has averaged 35% Usage Rate.

    In fact, if you look at all time single season usage ratings, Harden's 18-19 percentage is second only to Westbrook's 16-17 percentage. And they also each have another season in nthe top ten. No other player has more than one season in the top ten: BOTH of these guys have two.

    And that's not even getting into the fact that the top 5 all-time turnover seasons ALL belong to either Westbrook or Harden. Literally all five: Harden (16-17), Westbrook (16-17), Harden (18-19), Westbrook (17-18), Harden (15-16). That's crazy.

  21. #71


    That jersey whin Shinn put NOLA as a patch.

  22. #72
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Paul George just put up a season where he was in the MVP running and arguably the best of his career with Westbrook. Durant put up an MVP season playing with Russ. Yet somehow Harden and Russ who are great friends wont fit together? LoL! Let’s not pick a few stats we can find to make some ridiculous case that adding an MVP caliber PG doesn’t make you a better team. Makes total sense! Chris Paul isn’t on the same level as Westbrook and hasn’t been for a long time. CP3 needs the ball in his hands even more then Russ to have an impact on a game. There will be plenty of ball to go around for these to in Dantonis offense. This is the exact type of help Harden needed.

  23. #73

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