Official Summer League Games Thread

[Pelicanidae]

He also went from playing as big on like 20 minutes a game with only 5 shots... to 25 minutes and 15 shots per game against grown man. For a rookie that's basically flying by the seat of his pants that came from a horrible program in Texas. He has made some strides that I didn't expect. His issues is moreso things THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO instead of bad habits and low IQ play.

I agree. He needs to be shown how to do certain things. He hasn't been playing high level basketball for a very long time, and he hasn't been 7 feet tall for a super long time either: he needs to be shown how to box out effectively, he needs practice using his verticality and he needs to go through the process of learning to be a 7 foot tall human being. He also needs to put on some weight: he added 20lbs in his college year, so I don't see it as impossible for him to add another 10 with a real NBA training staff and nutritionist over the next few months. That would help him immensely.

Hayes, all things considered, has looked fantastic. He recorded a career high 28 points in his first ever game, has shot 3 of 5 on jumpers through 3 summer league games (more makes and attempts than his entire time at college) and also posted a career high 12 rebounds in his first career double double tonight. The guy is just showing so many signs that he's ready to make a jump. I don't think you maximise that by shoving him in the G League and telling him to go put up dunks in meaningless games. I'd much rather give him 10 minutes of NBA action a night against backups and small-ball lineups where he isn't totally abused by 30 year old tank bigs, and can get legit run with real NBA players. After an offseason of training, coaching, and nutrition, I don't see why that would be beyond consideration.

[SunshinePumper]

I've never even been close to being interested in watching a Summer League game. Today was like watching a Saints playoff game. I love it. The passion is back.

Replete with horrible officiating

[jawznola]

Right, people underestimate how the NBA could actually hamper the development by crushing a kid’s ego. The G-League is perfect for Hayes.

[ragincaucasian]

Is no one as disgusted as I am by the garbage "analysts" that we get stuck with for these games?

Last game these morons shrunk the game down to half the screen and some old geezers were talking about basketball in 1947 for an entire quarter.

This game we get two guys who are talking about how tight referee shirts are, how in shape they are, and what great calls they are making. Talking about baseball, "Maine-er's".

Dude, what? Is this a basketball game or a family reunion?

Literally zero analysis of the game. Zero about the score, who just scored, or what is happening in the game at all.

[Pelicanidae]

Right, people underestimate how the NBA could actually hamper the development by crushing a kid’s ego. The G-League is perfect for Hayes.

I think you underestimate how being a top ten pick who performs extremely well in Summer League who is then sent directly to the G League that nobody watches or cares about could impact an ego as well.

Cheick Diallo played 15 minutes a game last year, and was able to post a positive net rating, VORP, PER, TS%, and WS/48 in those minutes. You can't tell me that Hayes right now is worse at basketball than Diallo is.

[JJackisangry]

Miami gave us a run for our money. This felt like our first actual test. They forced us to play half court ball and it almost stopped us. Great teams prevail, and in terms of summer leaguing, we did that. The most impressive win yet imo.

[Pelifan]

nobody should go to the Gleague. Pels are light on bigs, I dont expect Hayes to play much but he can stick as a 3rd string center and just focus on hitting the weight room, learning his teammates, etc. Id expect 30-40 games at around 8-10 mpg from him if we stay healthy, but an injury and he'll probably see more. thats what Robert Williams did for the Celtics and it seems appropriate for Hayes as well.

Too many good perimeter players. It's a problem. s good problem. NAW needs time likr 15 mpg right away. but Frank put up 30 in 1 summer league game, I wouldnt be so quick to write him off of minutes either.
Luckily we have a team that could survive some injuries for the first time in the history of the franchise.

[Pelicanidae]

Just worked out a couple of per 36's:

Hayes' per 36: 28.9/11.9/0.5/0/2.0 on 60.5% FG.

NAW's per 36: 32/4.7/7.4/3.1/1.7 on 49.1% FG, 44% 3pt

That's absurd.

[redrum]

If the Pels give Hayes bench minutes 10 -14 a game, I think you are looking at Birdman.
Some nights amazing, most nights 4 fouls in 10 minutes and nothing else.

Great highlights, blocks and dunks, but not really a contributor in wins or losses.
Hayes needs coaching, making a WR who just grew in to his NBA body an NBA quality 5 is gonna take a few years,
But when it happens, look out!

Your mission Derek Favors, if you choose to accept it....................

[Pelicanidae]

Pels CLEARLY dropped this nugget so people can get off Zion’s back real quick pic.twitter.com/K7LNQ5NGSL

— Ian (@IanHow33) July 13, 2019

To all those in the media who are claiming Zion is 300+lbs right now...

Look. Look and judge.

[Pelicanidae]

I think a lot of the guys who are saying that Hayes will need like 3 years in the weight room and 200 G League games under his belt before he can step foot on an NBA court are just being kind of silly.

Is Hayes ready to get on court tomorrow and bang with Embiid, Gobert, Valanciunas, Gasol, and other big bodies? No, not at all. Not even one bit.

But if you think he won't be ready by the end of this season (assuming reasonably progress in the weight room over the summer and season) to compete with backup bigs like Cody Zeller, I don't know what to tell you. Like I said, Cheick Diallo got 15 minutes a game for us last season and was, despite all his flaws, a positive overall impact on the court. If you think Hayes can't play 10 NBA minutes against backups and third stringers this season, you have to explain to me why Hayes is worse than Cheick Diallo.

Edit: Hell, Jonathan Isaac got nearly 2000 minutes this season for the Magic, averaged nearly 10/6, and he's 15lbs LIGHTER than Hayes. You're telling me Hayes can't get half those minutes against backups?

[Eman5805]

The fact that Jaxson Hayes is still so raw, but makes such a huge impact...it's exactly one of the things I look for most in projecting a player.

I want to see evidence of talent that leads directly into production despite significant deficiencies in technique and experience, all things that can be fixed.

NAW shows the other thing I look for, he makes things that are actually very difficult and hard to pull off look routine. Like the scoop layup he had in the game before this last one. Or that Harden stepback. The reason Harden doesn't get called for travel is the move is so smooth and it covers so much ground after that one big step, that refs just don't call the travel even though it could be.

And he already has that move down? He hasn't even had time to practice it from NBA distance like talkin' about.

I mean, I get it's summer league, but with that mindset, all he needs is to get used to the level of player that's on the NBA. Just hope he isn't already at his ceiling and has more room to grow. Because I think he does.

[redrum]

I think a lot of the guys who are saying that Hayes will need like 3 years in the weight room and 200 G League games under his belt before he can step foot on an NBA court are just being kind of silly.

Is Hayes ready to get on court tomorrow and bang with Embiid, Gobert, Valanciunas, Gasol, and other big bodies? No, not at all. Not even one bit.

But if you think he won't be ready by the end of this season (assuming reasonably progress in the weight room over the summer and season) to compete with backup bigs like Cody Zeller, I don't know what to tell you. Like I said, Cheick Diallo got 15 minutes a game for us last season and was, despite all his flaws, a positive overall impact on the court. If you think Hayes can't play 10 NBA minutes against backups and third stringers this season, you have to explain to me why Hayes is worse than Cheick Diallo.

I agree he is ready for about 10 minutes a game against back ups, that said what the team gets from him during that time will be wildly inconsistent!.....next year.

[MistaWhoDat]

I like Hayes potential, but man is he raw, he does not even know how to box out on a free throw. Athletic freak but a basketball novice. 2 years of coaching and watch out.

NAW.....he can play! NBA is a different level, but all signs point to solid NBA player.

I agree he’s going to be a beast in two years but anyone suggesting he should start over Favors or Oak this year is crazy


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[Pelicanidae]

I agree he is ready for about 10 minutes a game against back ups, that said what the team gets from him during that time will be wildly inconsistent!.....next year.

And I'm cool with that.

Not looking forward to the god-awful takes whenever he has a bad game. But ready for it, and it'll be worth it when it pays off. He's gonna have some random game where he gets 21 points and 6 blocks, and follow it up with another game where he has 2 points and fouls 5 times in 13 minutes. That's okay with me.

[redrum]

And I'm cool with that.

Not looking forward to the god-awful takes whenever he has a bad game. But ready for it, and it'll be worth it when it pays off. He's gonna have some random game where he gets 21 points and 6 blocks, and follow it up with another game where he has 2 points and fouls 5 times in 13 minutes. That's okay with me.

and it should be from a 19 year old rookie who just stared playing basketball,
your problem will be the rest of the world who does not understand that the #8 pick doesn't put up better numbers and can't be more consistent.

you are right, probably, but this new world only sees flaws in what they expect to be a perfect asset. (not person, player, or team mate.)

[Pelicanidae]

and it should be from a 19 year old rookie who just stared playing basketball,
your problem will be the rest of the world who does not understand that the #8 pick doesn't put up better numbers and can't be more consistent.

you are right, probably, but this new world only sees flaws.

Exactly. I agree with Eman: the things Hayes is bad at right now are all things that can be coached, taught, or otherwise acquired. Rebounding discipline, firming up screens, additional strength from the weight room. But all the things he's good at right now are the little gems that great players have, but that cannot be taught.

That's feel, motor, anticipation, footspeed, height/length, quality hands, athleticism, unselfishness. All great players have at least a few of these traits, but if you don't have them there's nothing a coach can do to give you them. Coach Pop is a genius but he can't teach you to care, or to have better body control, or to be able to see a play before it happens. You've either got it, or you don't. Hayes does. That's huge, and if someone comes in with so much natural ability and potential then you do what you need to do to make them blossom. Who cares if it results in a couple of ugly games in the January of a rookie season?

[ragincaucasian]

#1 Boston and #2 Detroit knocked out this round. Nice.

[redrum]

Exactly. I agree with Eman: the things Hayes is bad at right now are all things that can be coached, taught, or otherwise acquired. Rebounding discipline, firming up screens, additional strength from the weight room. But all the things he's good at right now are the little gems that great players have, but that cannot be taught.

That's feel, motor, anticipation, footspeed, height/length, quality hands, athleticism, unselfishness. All great players have at least a few of these traits, but if you don't have them there's nothing a coach can do to give you them. Coach Pop is a genius but he can't teach you to care, or to have better body control, or to be able to see a play before it happens. You've either got it, or you don't. Hayes does. That's huge, and if someone comes in with so much natural ability and potential then you do what you need to do to make them blossom. Who cares if it results in a couple of ugly games in the January of a rookie season?

lets be honest, the Pels might have never even picked Hayes had they not been lucky enough to land Zion.

A team can take a chance on a talent like Hayes @8 if they already have a signature rookie or great team. You draft Zion #1 overall, sign JJ Redick, trade for Favors , and no one is really watching unless someone drafted 9-16 becomes Donovan Mitchell, and they may have drafted that guy at 17 in NAW (who knows)

Most teams need a contributor NOW at #8, lets be thankful the Pels are not that team today!

[Pelicanidae]

lets be honest, the Pels might have never even picked Hayes had they not been lucky enough to land Zion.

A team can take a chance on a talent like Hayes @8 if they already have a signature rookie or great team. You draft Zion #1 overall, sign JJ Redick, trade for Favors , and no one is really watching unless someone drafted 9-16 becomes Donovan Mitchell, and they may have drafted that guy at 17 in NAW (who knows)

Most teams need a contributor NOW at #8, lets be thankful the Pels are not that team today!

I totally get that! Personally, I still would have been willing to take the risk because we weren't drafting Hayes with our pick, we were using one we acquired in trade. So even if our own pick was #3, or #5, I still would have been fine using #8 from ATL for Hayes, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sell the Hayes pick to certain fans when you can excuse it as being a project pick, with your legitimate pick being used on a more NBA ready talent (whether that's Zion, Morant, Hunter, Clarke, whoever).

[GuardianAngel25]

I want him to be the best player he can be and as a fan I can critique him. His left hand makes him an unreal player, but if he only focuses on it he gonna get stopped in the league most nights. I don’t think I’ve seen him go right or make a right handed pass which is crazy for a right handed player

Nothing wrong with the critiques. Just a couple are losing it because you are espressing your opinion. Funny you cant say anything about a player because it doesn’t agree yet some people here can make ridiculous critiques about other young guys lol. NAW is going to be incredible. I believe he is ambidextrous so I don’t think you need to worry about his ability to use both hands. Jrue likes to go left often as well. I think he is this drafts Donovan Mitchell! He was the 13th overall pick and has a very similar skill set. I was always worried about life after Jrue but not with this kid. In 2-3 years our team is going to be competing for championships with this young group we have put together.

[GuardianAngel25]

Fellas, do you send NAW to G-League to get deep minutes or do you let him play with superior talent on limited minutes? Same thing with Hayes; I actually think Hayes would benefit by getting more time in the G-League due to his limited starting experience.

NAW could easily average 5-6 apg in the NBA as a rookie with the second unit, but in time I can really see him develop into a staring caliber PG similar to Van Vleet and his role in Toronto.

I would consider moving Hart who has solid value. With how good NAW has looked and is our only real facilitator on the bench I think he has to be our 6th man. He is NBA ready and it would make little sense imo to not throw him into the fire early on. I think having NAW/Frank as the PG/SG on the bench could be a great young duo for the next few years. Obviously JJ will be getting minutes over Frank so in the near future we can expect to see NAW/JJ hopefully running the court. We are absolutely stacked right now at the guard position. Jrue/Ball/NAW/Frank/Hart/Moore is one hell of a group of guards. Moore definitely has to go.

[GuardianAngel25]

Right, people underestimate how the NBA could actually hamper the development by crushing a kid’s ego. The G-League is perfect for Hayes.

I think Hayes could benefit from the GLeague since he has very little time playing basketball in his career. It’s not like it’s a permanent move where he has to stay the entire season. Would give us some time to feel out our big rotation and how he would fit. Getting him playing time on the court in the GLeague can only help him not hurt. Would be fine with him on our NBA roster from day 1 as well. I trust whatever they decide to do and think his best for Hayes.

[luckyman]

And reminder, Pelicans have their own g league team now. Which I hear players like Jaxson will be assigned a coach they work with separately that will follow them to the g league squad in PA.

I also seriously have to question college/high school coaching. What exactly were they teaching for someone to come to the NBA so raw on basics? How can Ben Simmons make it all these years not being able to shoot a basketball? Perplexing.

[jawznola]

I understand where you’re coming from, but this guy just started for the first time in his LIFE as a senior in high school two years ago, and at Texas he only had 169 fga the entire year, he needs more playing time, something that he won’t get enough of as a rookie.

After the all star break, definitely let him come in and get the 10-15 mpg that Diallo had, but he does need as much time on the court as possible to hone his skills.