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Thread: Pelicans preparing an offer for Hortford .

  1. #51
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    We are going for a championship sooner than later. ZION is a gift from God. Get Horford over here ASAP. Add another vet or two. It’s a good time to go for it. Why not?


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    Maxing out 33 year old players is not the way to a championship with a team on young players. I know we are used to Demps' rush jobs, but it would be better to build up the roster for a run in a couple of years once they have played together and gotten acclimated.

  2. #52
    I’m ok with this. I want to win games.

  3. #53
    Trust Alvin!

  4. #54
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Maxing out 33 year old players is not the way to a championship with a team on young players. I know we are used to Demps' rush jobs, but it would be better to build up the roster for a run in a couple of years once they have played together and gotten acclimated.
    ehh...

    Raptors don't win that championship without old man Marc Gasol.
    Warriors kept oldie but goodies like Iguodala and Livingston on overpays.
    The Spurs beat the heat with old men anchoring their salary cap.
    The Mavs beat the Heat with 30+ year olds weighing down their salary cap.
    Celtics won with "old" dudes making a lot of money.

    Roster construction is important. The cap goes up next year. I don't think in a vacuum it's fair to say one way or the other whether adding a max guy this offseason is a problem. It depends on what they plan to do with the Lakers players over the next two seasons and how much they cost to keep. Demps problem was that he traded away draft capital for players who cost significantly more, and also signed Solomon Hill. It wasn't that he rushed, it was how he rushed. The how under Griffin promises to look very different because of the draft capital we start with.

  5. #55
    Exactly it seems Grif and Gentry are using the Bob Myers blue print.

  6. #56
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    ehh...

    Raptors don't win that championship without old man Marc Gasol.
    Warriors kept oldie but goodies like Iguodala and Livingston on overpays.
    The Spurs beat the heat with old men anchoring their salary cap.
    The Mavs beat the Heat with 30+ year olds weighing down their salary cap.
    Celtics won with "old" dudes making a lot of money.

    Roster construction is important. The cap goes up next year. I don't think in a vacuum it's fair to say one way or the other whether adding a max guy this offseason is a problem. It depends on what they plan to do with the Lakers players over the next two seasons and how much they cost to keep. Demps problem was that he traded away draft capital for players who cost significantly more, and also signed Solomon Hill. It wasn't that he rushed, it was how he rushed. The how under Griffin promises to look very different because of the draft capital we start with.
    But you are talking about teams that were close to a championship adding a player to get over the top. We are not there. Also, some of those were via trade, so the Raptors gave up Valancunias for a year of Gasol. They did not max him out over 4 years.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    But you are talking about teams that were close to a championship adding a player to get over the top. We are not there. Also, some of those were via trade, so the Raptors gave up Valancunias for a year of Gasol. They did not max him out over 4 years.
    We finally get out of salary cap hell and people wanna go right back there. I just don't get it.
    Actual proof Greivis Vasquez can throw Anthony Davis an Alley-OOP on an (kinda) fastbreak!


  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    But you are talking about teams that were close to a championship adding a player to get over the top. We are not there. Also, some of those were via trade, so the Raptors gave up Valancunias for a year of Gasol. They did not max him out over 4 years.
    Holiday stays healthy we should be in a position to impress

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by boot318 View Post
    We finally get out of salary cap hell and people wanna go right back there. I just don't get it.

    So Julius Randle is our guy then? I’m ok with re-signing him too. The more you spend the more likely you win. Unless you are the Knicks.

  10. #60
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    But you are talking about teams that were close to a championship adding a player to get over the top. We are not there. Also, some of those were via trade, so the Raptors gave up Valancunias for a year of Gasol. They did not max him out over 4 years.
    The only point in bringing up all those teams, was to point out that you can have several players over 30 making significant money and be a good team. Those teams won championships. For the Pelicans maybe it's just making and winning playoff games. That has value. It's all about how you balance out the roster. We have draft picks to infuse the team with good young talent for the next 5 years.

    If we're intending to keep Ingram and Ball, this idea that we can save cap space is silly. Those second contracts, added to Jrue, will eat into any cap space you think you're going to have in 2021.

  11. #61
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    The only point in bringing up all those teams, was to point out that you can have several players over 30 making significant money and be a good team. Those teams won championships. For the Pelicans maybe it's just making and winning playoff games. That has value. It's all about how you balance out the roster. We have draft picks to infuse the team with good young talent for the next 5 years.

    If we're intending to keep Ingram and Ball, this idea that we can save cap space is silly. Those second contracts, added to Jrue, will eat into any cap space you think you're going to have in 2021.
    OK? That is why I am skeptical about adding another $30 million on top of that with a 34-35 year old at that time.

  12. #62
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    OK? That is why I am skeptical about adding another $30 million on top of that with a 34-35 year old at that time.
    What if it's Vucevic? Or a trade for Kevin Love?

    My point is that this is the window, not unlike we've seen the 76ers or other teams, where you have the most flexibility because you have guys on rookie deals. Once those deals start to convert, the window closes. Unless you plan on moving on from Jrue/Ball/Ingram - this idea that we can roll our cap space forward to use it in 3 or 4 years before Zion is extension eligible, seems to be very flawed.

    They should absolutely sign a guy if they identify the right guy and he's willing to join "the family". It just has to be the right guy. The cap space vanishes over the next two years.

  13. #63
    This all could be smokescreen by Griffin too. He might be actually eyeing someone off radar. Jimmy Butler? A trade for Myles Turner in the works?

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    This all could be smokescreen by Griffin too. He might be actually eyeing someone off radar. Jimmy Butler?
    Would be interesting. Definitely could use some grit and intensity. But I *heavily* doubt it.

  15. #65
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    This all could be smokescreen by Griffin too. He might be actually eyeing someone off radar. Jimmy Butler?
    I think most likely he's going to trade for someone into that cap space. I have no reason not to trust them at this point. And I think he's built the kind of flexibility into this team THIS offseason that people weren't expecting. He's literally two years ahead of where some people expected us to be, which is why they want to wait two years. It's odd.

  16. #66
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 - 3 View Post
    This all could be smokescreen by Griffin too. He might be actually eyeing someone off radar. Jimmy Butler? A trade for Myles Turner in the works?
    Not sure Butler would make a ton of sense (not sure he fits the culture Griffin is trying to build), but a big that can protect the rim and hit the 3 may make sense.

  17. #67
    Iíve said it before, there is no better center to put next to Zion than turner

  18. #68
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    I’ve said it before, there is no better center to put next to Zion than turner
    I love Turner, but have a hard time seeing Indy parting with him, especially if we were unable to pry him away on draft night with the 4th pick available.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Maxing out 33 year old players is not the way to a championship with a team on young players. I know we are used to Demps' rush jobs, but it would be better to build up the roster for a run in a couple of years once they have played together and gotten acclimated.
    I honestly feel like this is it. People are used to seeing assets vanish, and they are used to seeing big contracts go to the wrong players. Combine that with the desire to see something big happen and people are kind of just stuck in this Pavlovian reaction where they see with have assets and their instinct is to just throw them away. Like having options and flexibility makes them uncomfortable or something.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

  20. #70
    ...we get to go McDonalds
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    The free agent center that makes the most sense is Kevon Looney. He can switch on pick and rolls and will do the dirty work on the interior. He is smart on both ends of the floor and is just an overall solid piece. Will have to overpay but he won’t break any banks and you’re set in the frontcourt. He also fits age wise. If someone wants to overpay for a stretch five, let them. Looney is just a good basketball player.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I think Holford is looking to get grossly overpaid like he already was. Hard pass.
    I agree. And he is leaving an organization in flux. Kyrie is gone. Rumblings of the kids not playing nice with each other.

    I think the money is a consideration, and a mighty big one at that; but I believe Horford wants a playoff team more than anything.

    The ring is a powerful thing - Bilbo Bagins

  22. #72
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    Big Al is a great locker room guy he’d provide much needed guidance to our youngins and he’d have just as much value in the locker room as he would on the court.

    But not at that price.

  23. #73
    Sweet I think he would fit perfectly as the veteran this team needs if we want to make a run next year with what looks like a wounded Golden State squad. Like most though I would rather we not sign him to a 4 year max deal. Iím cool with a 2 year max type deal. I wouldnít mind signing someone to a max deal that ran the same as Zionís to take advantage of him on his rookie deal though. I just donít want to sign a 33 year old to a 4 year deal where he will be 37 when his contract runs out. Plus I would like to have flexibility when Lonzoís contract runs out in 2021. We likely still would as long as Jrue doesnít take his $27 million player option for 2021, which he likely wonít, if healthy, being that he will only be like 31 years old. So depending on what we pay Horford & Ingram if we resign him next offseason, we should still have some flexibility. Our bench should always be pretty damn legit with all the rookies we will have under contract if we end up using all these draft picks.

    Next year is the year to possibly make a run with the West being as wide open as it has been in a very long time. This team has a chance to be really good next year IMO. If we sign the right vet, we stay healthy, and Zion is up for rookie of the year I think we are without a doubt a playoff team.
    Last edited by DaPelFromHell; 06-26-2019 at 12:31 AM.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Maxing out 33 year old players is not the way to a championship with a team on young players. I know we are used to Demps' rush jobs, but it would be better to build up the roster for a run in a couple of years once they have played together and gotten acclimated.
    In all honesty, Demps didnt begin his "rush job" until Davis was in his 2nd/3rd year. So to do this in Zion's rookie year is far ahead of what Demps ever did.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-26-2019 at 01:09 AM.

  25. #75
    Y'all being contradictional if y'all don't think this formulating to a rush rebuild even quicker then the AD era, which in return kinda screwed us with the whole young vet/ no salary/future assets route. However I do trust Griff and Co to execute a plan that will result in a better transition vs the AD era, but maxing out old stars is not something I feel too comfortable about.
    CAW CAW!!!

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