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Thread: Pelicans preparing an offer for Hortford .

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Signing 33 year olds on the decline to cap strapping 4 year deals is the dumbest thing we can do. 2 year contract is acceptable.
    I agree. I think if we do this we throw away everything we have done to this point.

  2. #27
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JJackisangry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    So what do you do with Jrue in 2 years?
    I have no clue on earth why you are trying to change the subject. Also, it depends on how Jrue is performing at the time. Horford is already on the decline (and 33). Jrue could still be in his prime till 32-33.

  3. #28
    The Franchise bustah's Avatar
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    What’s the point of the possible Free Agents thread?

  4. #29
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    I have no clue on earth why you are trying to change the subject. Also, it depends on how Jrue is performing at the time. Horford is already on the decline (and 33). Jrue could still be in his prime till 32-33.
    Horford had a great year last year. Other than being a year older (it happens to all of us if weíre lucky), why do you keep saying heís already on the decline?

    Iím only asking about what we do with Jrue, because your opinion of Horford seems to be entirely based on age.

    Given Horfordís game and style of play, and a managed workload, thereís no reason he canít have a Tim Duncan like career into his late 30s.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Horford had a great year last year. Other than being a year older (it happens to all of us if weíre lucky), why do you keep saying heís already on the decline?

    Iím only asking about what we do with Jrue, because your opinion of Horford seems to be entirely based on age.

    Given Horfordís game and style of play, and a managed workload, thereís no reason he canít have a Tim Duncan like career into his late 30s.
    I think one big reason Horford will struggle to have a Tim Duncan like career is that Tim Duncan was absurdly good and Horford was never on that level.

    Horford is visibly on the decline. It doesn't show too much in the box score stats, because he's a smart dude and is altering aspects of his game as he ages to compensate for these facts, but his feet are slowing, his hands aren't quite as fast or as nimble anymore, he tends to hedge more than help more because he's no longer able to recover from legitimate help as quickly, etc. That's not a death sentence, and it's not like he sucks or anything, but it is quite clearly happening.

    What we do with Jrue depends on his performance and how much cash he wants. If Jrue is 31 and still averaging 18+ points and 6+ assists a game, relatively efficiently on good defense, then you feel okay about paying him. If Jrue is 31 and is barely averaging 13 and 4, and has visibly slipping defense, then you hesitate to give him a 4 year max. Which is exactly the state Horford is in, except Horford is 33 not 31 so it's even worse.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

  6. #31
    Don't get me wrong Horford is good. We are building a run and gun offense that requires speed and athleticism. I wouldnt say that is the type of offense that best suits an aging center. Either way I think we can do alot better using our cap space with a number of shooters and/or players that can run the floor and take advantage of our youth.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Pels4Life View Post
    Don't get me wrong Horford is good. We are building a run and gun offense that requires speed and athleticism. I wouldnt say that is the type of offense that best suits an aging center. Either way I think we can do alot better using our cap space with a number of shooters and/or players that can run the floor and take advantage of our youth.
    The thing about Horford is that if you take next year in a vacuum, he's actually a really good fit. Horford isn't the fastest anymore, but he's still relatively mobile and because a lot of his game comes from initiating offense at the top of the key it's actually not a big deal if he's trailing plays on offense sometimes. As a locker room presence, he'd be great as a mentor to Zion and to Hayes and in the training room would be able to help develop Hayes a lot in terms of getting his athleticism under some more control and also advise Zion as a big that handles the ball. Of course the fact that he can shoot would help as well, in terms of spacing.

    Really, the issue is the fact that he will be wanting big money long term. I don't want to be paying a 37 year old Al Horford $30m or more. I do not want to pay anyone $30m or more, at 37 years old, when they are going to be averaging like, 11/5/2. Especially when that $30m would sit on your salary cap like a stone and prevent you from making moves in the 2021 free agency should you be ready to make that move for a star, and would be impossible to get off because nobody is trading to take your stupid Al Horford contract from you when he's 36 or 37 unless you start attaching bunches of assets.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bustah View Post
    What’s the point of the possible Free Agents thread?
    Yeah ! .............and what about the people that never read IT ?
    We had quite a few interesting conversations as we pondered and navigated the nightly canopy.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    The thing about Horford is that if you take next year in a vacuum, he's actually a really good fit. Horford isn't the fastest anymore, but he's still relatively mobile and because a lot of his game comes from initiating offense at the top of the key it's actually not a big deal if he's trailing plays on offense sometimes. As a locker room presence, he'd be great as a mentor to Zion and to Hayes and in the training room would be able to help develop Hayes a lot in terms of getting his athleticism under some more control and also advise Zion as a big that handles the ball. Of course the fact that he can shoot would help as well, in terms of spacing.

    Really, the issue is the fact that he will be wanting big money long term. I don't want to be paying a 37 year old Al Horford $30m or more. I do not want to pay anyone $30m or more, at 37 years old, when they are going to be averaging like, 11/5/2. Especially when that $30m would sit on your salary cap like a stone and prevent you from making moves in the 2021 free agency should you be ready to make that move for a star, and would be impossible to get off because nobody is trading to take your stupid Al Horford contract from you when he's 36 or 37 unless you start attaching bunches of assets.
    Sounds like a legitimate concern . One that David Griffin might be considering...leading up to his meaningful decision.

  10. #35
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JJackisangry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Horford had a great year last year. Other than being a year older (it happens to all of us if weíre lucky), why do you keep saying heís already on the decline?

    Iím only asking about what we do with Jrue, because your opinion of Horford seems to be entirely based on age.

    Given Horfordís game and style of play, and a managed workload, thereís no reason he canít have a Tim Duncan like career into his late 30s.
    As Dae already said his athleticism is already in decline and he is already 33. Horford is a system player (a very good one at that) and not someone that will carry the offensive load. You can make the argument that defensively he makes up for it, but he isnít getting any younger. Like Lebron, his defense will probably be the first thing to go. His rebounding is also a major concern, and it will only continue to get worse. And no, he is not close to Tim Duncan so stop with that.

  11. #36
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    He supposedly turned down a 3 year offer from Boston with the rumor being he has a 4 year offer at over $100 million.
    That can easily be because of Boston being the ones offering him, rather than disagreeing with the term or money.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    And no, he is not close to Tim Duncan so stop with that.
    Yeah, just to clarify the gulf between Duncan and Horford:

    Duncan, aged 32: 19.3/10.7/3.5, PER of 24.4, VORP of 4.2
    Horford, aged 32: 13.6/6.7/4.2, PER of 20.2, VORP of 3.4

    Don't get me wrong, Horford was unquestionably good this past year, but it's clear that at the same age, Duncan was just a far more productive player. That is, he had further to fall when the decline began, whereas Horford is starting his decline from relatively low on the ladder in terms of pure production.

    Edit: just for further comparison, Duncan aged 38: 13.9/9.1/3.0, PER of 22.6, VORP of 4.2

    Duncan was arguably producing at a higher level at aged 38 than Horford was doing this year, aged 32.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 06-24-2019 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #38
    If Horford wanted a 3 year max that's fine, if it's a mistake it would be an easily fixable with that length. A 4th year is killer though.

  14. #39
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JJackisangry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    If Horford wanted a 3 year max that's fine, if it's a mistake it would be an easily fixable with that length. A 4th year is killer though.
    You could justify it if we were just in range of a title (even then it’s a wee bit of a stretch) but:

    A- We haven’t seen how his team will perform as a unit
    B- We haven’t seen if Gentry has what it takes or not to win a title

    So Horford would be a MASSIVE gamble for a 4 year maxish contract

  15. #40
    It's hard to give 13 and 6 at 33 years old max dollars. I'm not sure veteran leadership is worth that much. I mean we got Rondo for $3M and that was pretty impactful. Can't justify giving Horford, AD type money. That's wild.

  16. #41
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    It's hard to give 13 and 6 at 33 years old max dollars. I'm not sure veteran leadership is worth that much. I mean we got Rondo for $3M and that was pretty impactful. Can't justify giving Horford, AD type money. That's wild.
    I wouldn't be opposed if it were just a two year deal with an option for a 3rd year...but full four years at like $20 mil a year? Hell to the no.

  17. #42
    Going to take a hard pass on Horford. Too many good options out there and we are not at the stage where we need to pay for short term gains.

  18. #43
    For the right price absolutely

    For the higher end of the price scale just give me Adams or Lopez

  19. #44
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    I think if they want him then, they want to make the playoffs this year. I was thinking of them letting the younger players get better. Okafor and Jaxson being their centers for a few years.

  20. #45
    Max Contract Pelicans78's Avatar
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    I would not use up most of the cap space on one guy. If we really want to maximize this squad, we can spread the cap room among other veterans.

    Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams

    Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston

  21. #46
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    If we give a 33 year old 13 and 7 guy a max offer we are insane. We just got rid of the last bad contract we gave out. PLEASEEEE do not do this Pelicans.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar View Post
    If we give a 33 year old 13 and 7 guy a max offer we are insane. We just got rid of the last bad contract we gave out. PLEASEEEE do not do this Pelicans.
    That's my thoughts. I'm okay with an overpay for a year if it's the perfect fit. I'm even fine with it for 2 years, because next year's FA class is awful anyway. But if we cash-strap ourselves with an old, overpaid dude going into the 2021 FA period, that's just idiocy.

  23. #48
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That's my thoughts. I'm okay with an overpay for a year if it's the perfect fit. I'm even fine with it for 2 years, because next year's FA class is awful anyway. But if we cash-strap ourselves with an old, overpaid dude going into the 2021 FA period, that's just idiocy.
    I would be prepared for idiocy if I was you.

    We may miss out on Horford, but I'd be surprised if Griff and company have the same blanket prohibition against giving guys 4 year deals that you have.

  24. #49
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    We are going for a championship sooner than later. ZION is a gift from God. Get Horford over here ASAP. Add another vet or two. Itís a good time to go for it. Why not?


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  25. #50
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Also, we have the assets to get another star at the deadline. Bring Horford in here and see how we do. Add Beal to the mix before trade deadline and suddenly you got a serious team capable of going deep into the playoffs. Especially if Zion does well and the young guys continue to grow.


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