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Thread: Brandon Ingram?????

  1. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I simply can't believe in the same breath someone can excuse his poor performance and also still say Ingram was great. It feels like a catch 22 to me. Either he was bad because of the situation he was in or he was a great scorer, elite on defense, same tier as Pippin and Kawhi. I can't comprehend how people can hold both viewpoints at the same time.
    You'd think it was a contradiction, but I guess not.

    I think that to an extent, it's just fandom. A lot of Lakers fans, especially on twitter but also on Instagram and the handful who have come here following Ingram, Ball, and Hart*, are very attached to their players. Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with that, but it makes them feel a little defensive when someone like myself or you criticises them relatively harshly: who do we think we are? Those are their boys, who they've been fans of for years; we should feel lucky to have them, frankly. Then they come into contact with a Pelicans player with no sentimental attachment to someone like Ingram, and is just evaluating a prospect we've been handed, and the difference between the statistical evaluation and their sentimental attachment is jarring.


    *Not saying there's anything wrong with being a big fan of a given player.
    Basketball.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    You'd think it was a contradiction, but I guess not.

    I think that to an extent, it's just fandom. A lot of Lakers fans, especially on twitter but also on Instagram and the handful who have come here following Ingram, Ball, and Hart*, are very attached to their players. Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with that, but it makes them feel a little defensive when someone like myself or you criticises them relatively harshly: who do we think we are? Those are their boys, who they've been fans of for years; we should feel lucky to have them, frankly. Then they come into contact with a Pelicans player with no sentimental attachment to someone like Ingram, and is just evaluating a prospect we've been handed, and the difference between the statistical evaluation and their sentimental attachment is jarring.


    *Not saying there's anything wrong with being a big fan of a given player.
    Complete misinterpretation of what took place. Our exchange was fine. I took no issue with you not agreeing with me. I'd challenge you to find a quote that would suggest I was "defensive". That other guy's post was laced with veiled insult. Let's not conflate two entirely different scenarios/exchanges. Then build some false narrative on me based on it.

    He also acknowledged he was being a smart ******.
    Last edited by Nichols; 06-28-2019 at 11:27 PM.

  3. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Nichols View Post
    Complete misinterpretation of what took place. Our exchange was fine. I took no issue with you not agreeing with me. I'd challenge you to find a quote that would suggest I was "defensive". That other guy's post was laced with veiled insult. Let's not conflate two entirely different scenarios/exchanges. Then build some false narrative on me based on it.
    I wasn't speaking about you in particular. I was trying to make it clear that my statement is mostly about Lakers fans and ex-Lakers' fans in general, that's why I mentioned ''especially on twitter, but also on Instagram'', as to make it clear that I'm not targeting anyone in particular. My conversation with you was pretty even handed and not that bad overall. Lakers' twitter is a nightmare though, and there have been a couple of Lakers fans who have come here who are extraordinarily defensive about Ingram, and Ball as well.

  4. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    You'd think it was a contradiction, but I guess not.

    I think that to an extent, it's just fandom. A lot of Lakers fans, especially on twitter but also on Instagram and the handful who have come here following Ingram, Ball, and Hart*, are very attached to their players. Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with that, but it makes them feel a little defensive when someone like myself or you criticises them relatively harshly: who do we think we are? Those are their boys, who they've been fans of for years; we should feel lucky to have them, frankly. Then they come into contact with a Pelicans player with no sentimental attachment to someone like Ingram, and is just evaluating a prospect we've been handed, and the difference between the statistical evaluation and their sentimental attachment is jarring.


    *Not saying there's anything wrong with being a big fan of a given player.
    I suppose so. Though to me the longer this thread goes the more outrageous the claims become. We've now moved to the point where some are claiming Ingram is an *elite* defender while others claim he is an elite scorer and has less weaknesses than anyone else his age or younger in the entire league. So now basically Ingram is elite everywhere and is in the same company as Kawhi and Pippin at the same age. And this is being done unironically.

    You're right though. A lot of Laker fans acted like they were going to get AD for nothing because of how valuable Ingram and Ball were in their eyes. It had to be a shock when the Lakers sold the entire future to get AD.

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I wasn't speaking about you in particular. I was trying to make it clear that my statement is mostly about Lakers fans and ex-Lakers' fans in general, that's why I mentioned ''especially on twitter, but also on Instagram'', as to make it clear that I'm not targeting anyone in particular. My conversation with you was pretty even handed and not that bad overall. Lakers' twitter is a nightmare though, and there have been a couple of Lakers fans who have come here who are extraordinarily defensive about Ingram, and Ball as well.
    I'm a member of a Laker board.. The points you raised have been raised there by quite a few on many occasion, Laker fans aren't a monolith. Nor do I doubt you've come across some who are obstinate. I respect those who adhere to analytics to evaluate talent. It's a logical approach.

  6. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I suppose so. Though to me the longer this thread goes the more outrageous the claims become. We've now moved to the point where some are claiming Ingram is an *elite* defender while others claim he is an elite scorer and has less weaknesses than anyone else his age or younger in the entire league. So now basically Ingram is elite everywhere and is in the same company as Kawhi and Pippin at the same age. And this is being done unironically.

    You're right though. A lot of Laker fans acted like they were going to get AD for nothing because of how valuable Ingram and Ball were in their eyes. It had to be a shock when the Lakers sold the entire future to get AD.
    At some point, I think you're forced to look at things like a GM.

    If Ingram was legitimately a proven elite talent on both ends of the floor, as well as a high calibre playmaker for others, there's no way Griff would have been able to extract as much as he did from LA, nor would so many Lakers pundits and writers have been so willing to do it. Instead, they all happily gave him away, and were largely happy to give away their picks too (at least some of them) for Anthony Davis. Why? Because Davis is what a player looks like when they are legitimately a proven elite talent on both ends of the floor.

    The way Ingram is being described by some is like he's a 6'9 Michael Jordan with Magic's playmaking and Ben Wallace's defense, and in some cases, with Durant level shooting potential too. Nobody is that good. Nobody. Every player has flaws: even Lebron is a poor free throw shooter who can occasionally take plays off on defense and play without focus.

  7. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    At some point, I think you're forced to look at things like a GM.

    If Ingram was legitimately a proven elite talent on both ends of the floor, as well as a high calibre playmaker for others, there's no way Griff would have been able to extract as much as he did from LA, nor would so many Lakers pundits and writers have been so willing to do it. Instead, they all happily gave him away, and were largely happy to give away their picks too (at least some of them) for Anthony Davis. Why? Because Davis is what a player looks like when they are legitimately a proven elite talent on both ends of the floor.

    The way Ingram is being described by some is like he's a 6'9 Michael Jordan with Magic's playmaking and Ben Wallace's defense, and in some cases, with Durant level shooting potential too. Nobody is that good. Nobody. Every player has flaws: even Lebron is a poor free throw shooter who can occasionally take plays off on defense and play without focus.
    How dare you put Michael Jordan in the same sentence as Brandon Ingram. I'm shocked the Lakers didn't refuse to outright trade Ingram for AD.

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