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Thread: Pels trying to get Beal with the #4 (Per Shams)

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Some of you guys just yesterday: ''We don't need to do everything in one off-season, we don't need to rush developments, we have the assets to make measured moves rather than rushing''

    Same people today: ''TRADE JRUE FOR BEAL, MAX OUT VUCEVIC, ACQUIRE DWIGHT HOWARD, WE'RE GOING FOR THE 2020 RING!!!!''

    edit: before someone gets mad at me, YES this is hyperbolic. It's just funny to watch us all run through every possibility in 24 hours.
    If you can get Beal for Ingram and #4, you do it. I am not advocating paying more than that.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    If you can get Beal for Ingram and #4, you do it. I am not advocating paying more than that.
    Do it and do what? Lol... You guys wanting to grab stars without a plan is awful. We need Shooters and a complementary big more so than a luxury piece that creates a hole at SF.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Do it and do what? Lol... You guys wanting to grab stars without a plan is awful. We need Shooters and a complementary big more so than a luxury piece that creates a hole at SF.
    I won’t go into a repetitive argument about how Holiday routinely covers SFs including the longest in the league, KD, successfully. The NBA doesn’t have to have 5 players with only specific dimensions playing at one time.

    Please explain to me how this lineup is so terrible.

    PG: Ball/Payton/Jackson
    SG Beal/Hart
    SF: Holiday/Williams
    PF: Williamson/Mirotic
    C: (Howard or Vucevic)/Okafor
    Last edited by Darkhorse985; 06-20-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  4. #204
    All-Star HartOfaPelican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Do it and do what? Lol... You guys wanting to grab stars without a plan is awful. We need Shooters and a complementary big more so than a luxury piece that creates a hole at SF.
    What do you mean dude!?!? Why all the worry about the (SF) position. You have Zion and Holiday who can play and defend multiple positions.

    If we are able to get a big man in FA we are set!

    The NBA is small ball now...

  5. #205
    All-Star HartOfaPelican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    I won’t go into a repetitive argument about how Holiday routinely covers SFs including the longest in the league, KD, successfully. The NBA doesn’t have to have 5 players with only specific dimensions playing at one time.

    Preach it dude!!!

  6. #206
    Theoretically, if you were able to have them possess the required strength, speed, shooting ability, and creation abilities, the perfect NBA lineup would have only people between the height of 6'4 and 6'10. That's all you need. That way you could switch everything, pretty much all the time, and still have the height variation to attack mismatches and stuff on offense.
    Paying attention to the next draft too early.

    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Oscar Tshiebwe endorser.

  7. #207
    All-Star HartOfaPelican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Theoretically, if you were able to have them possess the required strength, speed, shooting ability, and creation abilities, the perfect NBA lineup would have only people between the height of 6'4 and 6'10. That's all you need. That way you could switch everything, pretty much all the time, and still have the height variation to attack mismatches and stuff on offense.
    I mean... technically, that’s got be at least 70% of the leave these days. Maybe higher.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican View Post
    I mean... technically, that’s got be at least 70% of the leave these days. Maybe higher.
    Not really. It's what most of the league is aiming for, sure, but there's more than a third of the league still without it.

    Raptors just won a chip starting a dude who's 6'1 with a 6'0 backup, as well as two 7'0 centers. Their opponent started a 6'3 PG and a 7'0 SF. Crazy world.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Doesn't make too much of a difference to me. At some point, you're paying too much for Beal. If it costs a ridiculous amount to trade up to #2, and then you have to move both #2 and another asset to Washington to Beal, after a certain amount of assets you're just getting robbed.

    If it cost us, for example, #4, Moore, and our 2020 FRP to move up to #2, and then it cost #2, Ingram, and a Lakers pick to get Beal, then in reality all you've done is trade Beal for #4, Ingram, Moore, your 2020 FRP, and a Lakers pick. And that's too much.
    Why on Earth would anyone want Howard and Viewyahvich when Naz Reid will be available in the 2nd for us?

    *ducks glass bottle

    Lol. But I totally agree. I also think some great players will be available at the trade deadline as teams blowup. Knock Dell all we want, the man was good at getting people at the deadline. I really liked that strategy. And since we are setup for a while, we can be choosy and wait for other teams to implode while getting our young guys minutes.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-20-2019 at 02:49 AM.

  10. #210
    How do you figure that Hunter is a lesser Otto Porter? Hunter's defensive prowess doesn't even compare. Don't believe me? Check out Culver's National championship game stats. Hunter is not the flashy talent that everyone wants out of every draft pick. He is a very good defender that happens to be efficient at Fg's as well as 3-pt's.

    Garland played 5 games for Vanderbilt. Where are you getting that he's a "bad defender"? If we do choose him I think that we may trade Jrue after next season and use this season for him to learn under Jrue.

    I agree with you in pointing out that Culver is not an efficient shooter right now.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican View Post
    What do you mean dude!?!? Why all the worry about the (SF) position. You have Zion and Holiday who can play and defend multiple positions.

    If we are able to get a big man in FA we are set!

    The NBA is small ball now...
    No its not. The main reason the Pelicans had no answer for Golden St in the playoffs is because they had no answer for Golden St's taller lineup. Small ball doesnt mean trotting out three 6'4" guards in the NBA, nor do I wan Zion trying to guard Kevin Durant all game. Jrue Holiday cannot guard him either. This team has desperately missed that 6'8"+ long armed wing forever.

    Unless they are trading Holiday, Beal is a bad fit here.
    Last edited by luckyman; 06-20-2019 at 03:18 AM.

  12. #212
    But, as I think it was Dae that mentioned, Ball is a good pick to guard longer SFs.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    No its not. The main reason the Pelicans had no answer for Golden St in the playoffs is because they had no answer for Golden St's taller lineup. Small ball doesnt mean trotting out three 6'4" guards in the NBA, nor do I wan Zion trying to guard Kevin Durant all game. Jrue Holiday cannot guard him either. This team has desperately missed that 6'8"+ long armed wing forever.

    Unless they are trading Holiday, Beal is a bad fit here.
    I totally agree that we've been missing a real, legitimate ''small-forward'' type guy for a long long time.

    But you are demonstrably incorrect that Jrue cannot guard Durant. Jrue guarded Durant a lot this season, and did a very good job on him: at least as effective, if not more so, than the vast majority of wings in this league who are that mythical ''6'8 long armed wing'' types. Having the right body type is no replacement for just being good at defense, and Jrue is just good at defense. Nobody can TRULY guard Durant, but Jrue is as good at it as basically anyone.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I totally agree that we've been missing a real, legitimate ''small-forward'' type guy for a long long time.

    But you are demonstrably incorrect that Jrue cannot guard Durant. Jrue guarded Durant a lot this season, and did a very good job on him: at least as effective, if not more so, than the vast majority of wings in this league who are that mythical ''6'8 long armed wing'' types. Having the right body type is no replacement for just being good at defense, and Jrue is just good at defense. Nobody can TRULY guard Durant, but Jrue is as good at it as basically anyone.
    So I guess we saw two different things because number 1, outside of maybe 2 stops, Jrue cannot and did not guard Durant that well. So much so that...

    Number 2, the team had to call a double team to help him out, which is not desirable against the warriors. On the flip side, Durant could do enough with his length to slow down Jrue, while I've seen Ingram score on Durant many times.

    To say Jrue can't guard Durant is not a knock on Jrue, but he has no business trying to guard someone damn near 7 ft tall. That's preposterous.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    So I guess we saw two different things because number 1, outside of maybe 2 stops, Jrue cannot and did not guard Durant that well. So much so that...

    Number 2, the team had to call a double team to help him out, which is not desirable against the warriors. On the flip side, Durant could do enough with his length to slow down Jrue, while I've seen Ingram score on Durant many times.

    To say Jrue can't guard Durant is not a knock on Jrue, but he has no business trying to guard someone damn near 7 ft tall. That's preposterous.
    Jrue was the primary defender on Durant for 41 possessions across two games. He held Durant to (IIRC) 13 points on those 41 possessions. That's as good as anyone, pretty much.

    Yeah, Jrue sometimes had double teams but are you really implying that guarding someone doesn't count if there's help? Kawhi got help guarding Gianni's in the ECF, are we saying that Kawhi can't guard Giannis now?

  16. #216
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    durant is going to get his....jrue did the best job he could do against durant in the playoffs...he stop durant from driving on him but jrue cant stop a 7ft player from shooting over him.....jrue turned durant into a dribble and shoot over him player in the playoffs and just our luck durant was making his shots......all we needed was for durant to have been off in the playoffs against us and we would have won a couple of games....

  17. #217
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    I dont want to move Ingram, and I feel like if we were then we would have done so in a 3 team deal in the first place.

    I'm all for drafting another SF in the draft such as Hunter, but I feel like you make that move as a) good rookie depth behind BI that can take his time developing B) an insurance plan if you lose BI to FA. None of these draft picks outside of Zion need to come in and start right away.

    I still really like Reddish. I wouldn't draft him over RJ, Ja, or Hunter but I would draft him over Culver or Garland. He isn't more talented than either of those guys but I think he fits this offense better.

  18. #218
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Funny thing is we’ve lacked a starter quality player between 6’5” and 6’9” and I’ve got into it a bit because if we were to trade for RJ Barrett, not saying we would or even should exactly, that we’d have too many. Frankly, I’m willing to try the direct opposite of our previous problem for a while.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Jrue was the primary defender on Durant for 41 possessions across two games. He held Durant to (IIRC) 13 points on those 41 possessions. That's as good as anyone, pretty much.

    Yeah, Jrue sometimes had double teams but are you really implying that guarding someone doesn't count if there's help? Kawhi got help guarding Gianni's in the ECF, are we saying that Kawhi can't guard Giannis now?
    If he needs double team help, then obviously, yes I am. It's not even a debate for me. I don't want Jrue Holiday on Kevin Durant or Giannis.

    I'm all for not only keeping Ingram, but also adding Culver/Hunter/Reddish/Sekou. Any of them plus Hayes or Bitadze ideally.

  20. #220
    Jrue Holiday isn’t a SF and it would be silly to thrust him into that role.
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  21. #221
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
    Jrue Holiday isn’t a SF and it would be silly to thrust him into that role.
    Yes. Honestly PG as well, he can play there obviously, but I think his play as of late proves he is better off the ball.

  22. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    If he needs double team help, then obviously, yes I am. It's not even a debate for me. I don't want Jrue Holiday on Kevin Durant or Giannis.

    I'm all for not only keeping Ingram, but also adding Culver/Hunter/Reddish/Sekou. Any of them plus Hayes or Bitadze ideally.
    If you only qualify as being ''able'' to guard someone if you can do it regularly, one on one, with no help, then basically nobody in today's NBA can guard anybody.

  23. #223
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    The Ringer is suggesting Myles Turner for #4

    One potential trade partner could be Indiana. As our own Kevin O’Connor reported on Tuesday, the Pacers have discussed a trade with the Pelicans for the no. 4 pick. While no names were explicitly mentioned, there is one clear target the Pelicans should covet: Myles Turner, who last season led the league in blocks per game and attempted 2.6 3-pointers per game at a 38.8 percent clip. Pairing Zion Williamson with a floor-spacing rim protector would help cover up some of Zion’s immediate NBA-level deficiencies while also giving him wide-open lanes down low to put his tank-like body to good use.

    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/6...ion-williamson


    I could live with that.

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    I won’t go into a repetitive argument about how Holiday routinely covers SFs including the longest in the league, KD, successfully. The NBA doesn’t have to have 5 players with only specific dimensions playing at one time.

    Please explain to me how this lineup is so terrible.

    PG: Ball/Payton/Jackson
    SG Beal/Hart
    SF: Holiday/Williams
    PF: Williamson/Mirotic
    C: (Howard or Vucevic)/Okafor
    Lmao... Holiday got torched by KD. Sit down with that bs. KD being stupid tall for his position makes it hard to guard or double team him.

    Making a ridiculous mis match against star SF is a recipe for disaster.
    Last edited by Taker597; 06-20-2019 at 10:33 AM.

  25. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Lmao... Holiday got torched by KD. Sit down with that bs.
    Holiday was KD's primary defender for 41 possessions during this season and KD scored 12 points. If that's getting ''torched'' to you, then every other defender gets crushed by a steamroller, torched, blended into powder, and then scattered in the wind.

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