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[QUOTE=MistaWhoDat;1490112]So your telling me that a team with as many holes as Memphis has got that they wouldn’t drop back one pick get the third pick some players and future picks I’m not so sure about that . We’re not talking about Zion or Lebron James they are giving up . It’s only one spot to get more picks and players .
I'm going to try and explain this very clearly.Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat
You say Memphis would drop back to get ''the third pick, some players, and future picks''.
Maybe they would do that. But the ''players and future picks'' are exactly the assets you would want from NY for AD. And they would not have them any more. Acquiring the #2 pick would COST them all of the assets THAT YOU WANT in the first place. If you only care about the #2 pick, then you just trade AD to Memphis for the #2 pick, but nobody will do that because we all know the #2 pick alone isn't good enough. You want more than just the number 2 pick. Which means you can't have NY, or any other team, gut their assets to acquire the #2 pick because then they have nothing else to give you for AD.
What I said was that there is no way Memphis are trading down without ALSO taking Robinson, because as you say, they would want the third pick, and the players, and the future picks. And if the Knicks don't have Robinson, or the Dallas picks anymore, what do they have? #2 and Kevin Knox. No way in hell is that good enough for AD.
Hope that clears things up.
Basketball.
Last year the cost for Dallas to swap their 5th pick for Atlanta's 3rd pick was a Top 5 protected 1st round pick the following year. If that's the price, maybe DSJ in addition to a future protected 1st will still leave plenty enough for the Pels. Ja, Knox, Robinson, 2023 Dallas protected 1st, filler would be at the top of my list. The unknown is how much is Memphis locked in on Ja, if they love Ja that much more than RJ there won't be a deal, if they are close in their eyes the deal I mentioned should do it, simple as that.
I don't think it's even debatable: for Memphis, Ja is more valuable. They were trying to move on from Conley this February, and all signals since have pretty much confirmed that they are ready to shift from Conley onto a new PG to pair with their versatile big in Jackson Jr to get into the next era of Memphis basketball.
The difference is that in last year's draft, the 5th pick was still relatively promising. It wasn't a super deep draft, but it has a lot of gems in it and swapping 3rd for 5th wasn't a huge downgrade because they knew there would be a highly touted player still around at 5, because there were a ton of them. This year, it's not the same. This is a one man draft. After that, there's a huge step down to 2 and 3, and another huge step down after that. Higher picks are more valuable this year than last because the same opportunities aren't there lower in the draft.
Next year is a very deep draft at PG. It's not inconceivable or even illogical that Memphis would lock in their wing this year (Barrett or Culver), try out a still very young DSJ for a season, and pick up an extra 1st next year. That 1st could be the NYK pick in 2020 if the trade is completed after the draft picks are made this year. Pels could still be getting Ja, Knox, Robinson, Trier and future Dallas picks in a deal like that. And ideally for Memphis they want to be good enough to convey their pick to Boston next year. So don't just assume they're going to trade Conley before the season and turn the reigns over to a rookie PG. Doing this deal is an easy one for them with lots of positives if they have Ja and one of the wings in the same tier. If there is a large gap between Ja and RJ or Culver, then they don't consider it. Memphis saying they intend to pick Ja, in no way is an indicator of how much they would value alternatives at pick #3. Could be close.
Sure, but if they actually do like Ja then why mess around? If they want a guard, and they actually like Ja, and he's there and he's a guard, why not just draft him instead of hoping that they're in a position to draft a different guard next year? Especially, if as you say, they're hoping that they won't even have their pick next year because they want it to convey to Boston. Therefore in order to actually have picks, they'll need to take them from NY, which is exactly my point: to get the #2 pick, NY will need to ship all their assets out to Memphis instead of to us. I'm not saying it's inconceivable, they could do that, but it's a fairly long shot.
AD is going to be traded, if he gets traded, either before the draft or on draft night. You can't pull the whole ''the 1st can be the 2020 NYC pick cause they can trade after the draft'', because the AD trade will be done before the draft or on the draft night itself so that the picks can be made for the Pels. The only way that would be possible would be as a multi-team trade, which makes things far more difficult in regards to actually balancing who gets what without anyone feeling robbed.
''So don't just assume they're going to trade Conley before the season''. I'm not assuming. They actively tried to ship Conley already. It's not a guarantee that they will succeed in moving him, but we already know it's something they have actively been attempting to do. It's not an assumption, it's a commentary on actual events that are public knowledge.
I'm not saying ''There is 0% chance that anyone makes a move for the #2 pick, and Memphis are so in love with Ja they will never move him.'' I'm saying that the difficulties surrounding getting Ja, especially the assets that would need to be expended to get him, are so large and numerous that it's extremely weird for so many people to have him as their main focus in trade talks, particularly when Memphis aren't even one of the teams purported to be involved in any AD discussions whatsoever. It's like people have just decided they like Ja, and have therefore decided to make this the ''get Ja Morant'' trade, instead of the ''get the best return for AD'' trade.
This makes leaps of logic and argument that just aren't true.
-To go from #3 to #2, how do we know the Knicks will have to ship all their assets out? That hasn't been the case in the past to make similar moves. The cost is a protected 1.
-You can absolutely agree to the deal, with Memphis knowing they will pick Ja, Knicks knowing they will pick Barrett, and everyone involved knowing that after the picks are made, the players will be traded and the 2020 NYK pick will go to Memphis. It's not foreign or rocket science.
-They shopped Conley, there was interest from other teams, and they decided to keep him. He's available. Whether they ultimately get a deal that makes them pull the trigger is an unknown.
I'm not even a huge fan of trading anything to move up to draft Ja. I just think you're overstating the cost to do so for some reason. Would Memphis - who hopes to convey their own pick next year before it becomes unprotected - prefer Ja or DSJ/RJ/NYK2020? Would Pels prefer DSJ/RJ/NYK2020 plus their other assets or Ja plus their other assets? I don't know how anyone can answer either of those questions as definitely as you are attempting to.
I'm going to go through each one of your points on their own, so that they can get a proper answer.
No, a protected first is not the universal price of moving up one spot in the draft. It was the cost of moving up 2 spots in the draft last year. This year is not like last year. This is a notoriously weak draft which falls off dramatically after #3, and in some people's eyes, after spot #2 (that would be the people who think RJ isn't in the same realm as Ja). Therefore the price this year is likely to be higher because the cost of moving down is larger in comparison to last year which was seen as a deeper draft. Just assuming that the cost is ''a protected 1'' because last year had a similar trade is absurd.
Nobody disputed this, least of all me. My point was not that it would be impossible, but that it would be more difficult because it would have to be done as a multi-team trade.
Which would be why I literally said ''It's not a guarantee that they will succeed in moving him, but we already know it's something they have been actively attempting to do.''. The fact that they haven't found a deal they'd be happy with yet doesn't change the fact that they are looking to move him, which is the only relevant point.
The fact that Memphis wants to convey their own pick could easily be a reason for keeping their pick this year and ensuring they get their future PG as much as it could be an argument for them preferring the NY trade. Would I prefer multiple first rounders plus the Knicks other assets, or 1 first rounder plus the Knicks other assets? For me, that's an easy question.
I don't know why this has to be my catchphrase on this forum or something, I might even just make it my sig or something, but I'm going to clarify it here again. I'm not answering these questions ''definitely'', as if I somehow have insight into every front office and the future. I could easily be wrong about this. Sure, maybe the Knicks DO make this trade and Memphis are eager for it. My point is that assuming the #2 pick is on the table is a big assumption to make, and to not only assume it (despite having absolutely ZERO reason to do so) but to also assume that NYC would be willing to do it in order to make an AD trade is a just an absolute leap of moon logic.
Like I said in my initial post that you're responding to, there is this weird mindset that seems to have sprung up among Pels fans which has turned this from ''how do we go about acquiring the best return for AD'' into ''how do we acquire Ja Morant''? Those two things COULD coincide, sure, but they are not intrinsically linked, and the weird turnaround that has switched the two is very odd. Whoever Morant's publicist is needs to be paid more because the circus of intent focus surrounding him is absurd.
It all depends on whether Memphis really likes Ja as much as they professed. It just seems a bit odd for them to announce they are keyed in on Ja the day after the lottery. Part of me thinks they did that to announce to NY (or anyone wanting Ja) that it is going to cost a good bit to get to that spot. Memphis could use Barrett too (particularly if they feel they can just keep Conley).
Maybe. On the other hand, it could just mean they really liked Ja, and were signalling to other teams that they aren't planning on moving on the pick.
This, and I like the idea of Jrue being THE GUY next year. With Nets package, that happens. With the Celtics, lets say, you might try to force Tatum too much. With Knicks, Jrue is the guy but the team is too young and dumb. With Nets deal, Jrue can be ALL-NBA and team is solid https://t.co/SYDcDrIMwi
— Elite Bored (@BallThen) May 30, 2019
I'd have to think they zeroed in on Ja. They need to build for the future, and Conley isn't gonna be apart of that for much longer. He would be a great mentor for Ja.
Nobody knows unless we actually called Memphis. Anything else is speculation. Maybe they'd be willing to move the pick, maybe not. I have no problem staying at 3 or 4 anyway if we get the pick. We're not finalizing our team for the next decade on draft night anyway.
What did Philly pay to move up and draft Fultz?
Has there been a trade in the last 30 years where a team paid more than a recent former lottery pick and a future 1st round pick to move up one spot in the draft???
All I've said is it's not's unrealistic or complicated for the Pelicans to acquire the #2 pick if that's what they decide they want as part of the deal for Anthony Davis.Like I said in my initial post that you're responding to, there is this weird mindset that seems to have sprung up among Pels fans which has turned this from ''how do we go about acquiring the best return for AD'' into ''how do we acquire Ja Morant''? Those two things COULD coincide, sure, but they are not intrinsically linked, and the weird turnaround that has switched the two is very odd. Whoever Morant's publicist is needs to be paid more because the circus of intent focus surrounding him is absurd.
It's pretty conceivable that you could do the Lakers deal for Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, #4, and a 2021 pick and ship Lonzo and 4 to Memphis for Ja. If Memphis is willing to trade the pick, and if the Pelicans are interested, there is an easy path with either Lakers or Knicks assets. This isn't "how do we get Ja"... this is "if you want Ja, this is how you get him".
#3 in a loaded draft + a future first with multiple protections on it so that it would come from various teams depending on exactly where it falls. Can't remember the details for which teams exactly.
Which is my point: the Knicks will have to give up more future assets which are precisely the assets we want in the first place. It'll either be future picks: that we want, or Robinson, who we also want. In either case, we lose out.
Good for you if that's all you've said. Other people have said different, and my initial post wasn't in response to you, so if that's not your perspective then cool.
I can't wait for the draft to be over and for Memphis to keep Ja, so I don't have to have his name sprayed all over like he's the second coming of Steve Nash of something.
Maybe, but why the need to tell anyone and do it so publicly?
Not sure how to read him. It seems his reasonings and desired deals change frequently. I read this as he does not want to get a top talent as it may challenge Jrue, so go more for depth. I am not overly excited about the Nets assets and their picks are not good at all.
Cause they figured that if they didn't, everyone would flip out and immediately hit their phones with their offers to trade the #2 for the #4 and Lonzo Ball?
IDK, if it was that, then it didn't work.
I mean the Pels have come out and said they're taking Zion with their pick. Why would they do that unless they were trying to drive up the price?
I simply don't think everytime a team does something it's due to some sneaky master plan of trying to weasle extra assets from teams. Sometimes, teams are simply asked a question and answer it honestly.
The Pelicans have #1 and it was never reported that they came out and made an announcement that they were taking him. It is just that obvious.
Yeah I don't think I saw anyone for the Pels ever give an official confirmation they're planning on taking Zion. It's more that if they don't, the entire state would try and murder them.
Has Memphis given "official" confirmation? Or is it all reported speculation?
The Pelicans have given just as much if not more evidence publicly of taking Zion than Memphis has done for Morant.
Last edited by Mythrol; 05-30-2019 at 04:16 PM.
Well, I certainly heard Zion's stepdad tell T-Bob Hebert that they are already searching for a place of residency in N.O. Sooooo, I'm going to go out on a limb & say that ZION has been notified. I told you- I am a risk taker.
If we want Ja badly enough, I think we can get him. I’d simply make it known to the Lakers and Knicks that AD’s price starts with the #2 pick in the draft. Failing that, AD goes to the highest bidder, which would then include the Clippers, Celtics, Nets, etc.
Assuming Memphis won’t trade the pick for reasonable compensation, so what? What did it cost us? Let the Lakers and Knicks do all the leg work trying to figure out how to appease the Grizzlies. Not our problem. We’ll have other offers lined up….but the Grizzlies’ pronouncement that they’re selecting Ja won’t dissuade teams from asking if the #2 pick has a price.
Hey, here's an idea, why not trade AD to Memphis straight up for #2. Then we can get Ja Morant, who is going to be the next Stephen Curry but with Magic's vision and Westbrook's athleticism, and will singlehandedly win us a championship playing 1 on 5 against Golden State.
Edit: I feel like I shouldn't have to say that this was sarcasm, but just in case: this is sarcasm.
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