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Thread: The Case for Lonzo Ball

  1. #1

    The Case for Lonzo Ball

    For the last several months, like most Pelicans fans, I've been down on a potential deal with LA. Ignoring the emotional and PR aspects of the deal, their young players have a lot of questions. Though Brandon Ingram has shown some real skills, he remains a giant question mark. The combination of his uneven track record to date with his potentially serious medical concerns make me worried that his next contract, even if he plays great this year, will be a risky match in restricted free agency. He can't be the major piece the Pels get back and needs to be lagniappe. The number 4 pick could be a good piece and is probably their best overall asset, but is probably only the 4th best overall asset potentially available to the Pels depending on how much you value Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Josh Hart and Kuzma are nice bench pieces on a contender who don't move the needle or provide real value for a team that shouldn't be thinking in the near term and would only be likely to bring in minor assets. Future picks, in the scenario that the Lakers bring in Davis and another star, aren't likely to be high value.

    And then there's Lonzo. There has already been noise from the Ball camp about Lonzo not wanting to be in New Orleans and needing to be routed to a third team, this despite the fact that he has been a very limited NBA player to this point and not the type of star who typically gets to dictate his destination. After the soap opera that was the last season, it seems prudent to avoid players who are likely to cause drama or distraction, especially with the new sense of optimism surrounding the franchise. On the court, he has been among the worst scorers in the NBA who plays significant minutes. He is Rondo-bad or worse as a foul shooter, struggles to finish inside and is limited as a driver, has no floater, in-between, or midrange game to speak of, and while he isn't hopeless as a 3 point shooter, he has shot in the low 30%s on largely wide open shots and has unseemly mechanics. He is likely to get the non-shooter treatment and will allow teams to clog the lane against Zion and Jrue. When we drafted Zion, my immediate thought was that we should be looking to surround him with shooters and that Lonzo would be a terrible fit.
    However, the more I've thought about it, the more I find pairing Lonzo with Zion to be intriguing and potentially devastating combination.
    Zion's most unique and outstanding characteristic is his unprecedented explosiveness, size, and leaping ability, and body control in the open floor. While there are some concerns about his halfcourt offense, nearly everyone agrees he will be a monster in transition from the first game he plays. The key to making Zion the best version of himself early on, and maybe period, is making sure the Pels push the place in transition. In his two years in the league, few players has pushed transition as much as Lonzo. He is an outstanding rebounder at the guard position and is an incredibly skilled and aggressive outlet passer. He is also a really fast athlete for 6'6" who can push the pace and cause defenses to commit.
    He is also an instinctive and skilled help defender (more on this later) who creates a lot of high impact, live-ball turnovers which turn defense into transition.

    As a result, he's had one of the biggest impacts on how his team gets in transition. Per cleaningtheglass (paywall), when Lonzo was on the court, the Lakers were in transition a total of 21%, 99th percentile, and was 3.1% more likely to be in transition with Lonzo on the court than off, which was 95th percentile. He is really, really good getting the team into transition. He had this effect both before and after Lebron James came to town.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhjhdvTtJHY


    While he does his best work in transition, Lonzo is also a genius-level passer in the halfcourt. What I like best about him there is that he is decisive. He anticipates cutters incredibly well and gets the ball to players doing downhill. If the ball is kicked out to him after a defense is scrambling from an offensive action, he will find the man who can capitalize. He makes the pocket pass on the short roll incredibly well. His size makes it easy to see over his defender and get the ball into the post on entry passes. He is also next-level lob-thrower, which is a skill that would let Zion get above the rim, not unlike what Blake Griffin had in LA or Vince Carter appreciated with the early 2000s NJ Nets.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx4UGQw5hxo


    On defense, he's already a really good player, with potential to be an All-NBA player. He has a great combination of size for a guard (6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan), moves well laterally on D, his frame is filling in. His hands and anticipation to get into passing lanes are really rare. He has shown potential to switch 1-4 and can pick the pockets of bigs. He gets a lot of steals (2% steal rate, 82nd percentile for guards), and while his block rate fell off from his rookie year (1.2% to 0.6%, 91st to 73rd percentile), he gives you a lot more help defense than most guards. His frame, tools, and effort level are reminiscient of Klay Thompson, but his hands and ability to create impact plays has the potential to be even better. A backcourt of Jrue Holiday and Lonzo Ball would arguably be the most defensively versatile and impactful in the association.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYC476G1Px0


    There are real potential drawbacks. If he can't shoot better from the line, he becomes a candidate to get hacked and to muck up games. Despite an analytics-oriented shot profile (almost all of his shots come from 3 or at the rim), he remains among the least efficient players in basketball. Spacing, already an issue, will be an even bigger issue if he can't become at least average 3 point shooter. The off-the-court circus with Lavar could distrupt the positive momentum of the franchise. David Griffin and Gentry would need to weigh this risk heavily and do their due diligence.
    With that said, his skill set is rare. There are few better pure passers in the NBA. Paired with Zion, there is the start of a very high IQ team there with an identity on defense and destroying teams in transition. With Rondo, we saw the impact a brilliant passer can have on a team, and IMO Lonzo is a significantly better overall player right now than that version of Rondo, and is much less ball dominant. Out of the assets available (including Tatum/RJ/SGA/Ingram/Brown), it would not suprise me if Lonzo becomes the best overall player. He could help create scoring opportunities for Zion with his passing skill, and could operate as a secondary playmaker off of Jrue or Zion's drives, and could remove some of the onus of initiation from Jrue without the need to dominate the ball to score in a way like Tatum or RJ will. I think there is more potential for synergy here than immediately meets the eye, and in a package with Ingram, the 4th pick, and some other assets shouldn't be dismissed unless other offers are just overwhelming.
    Further viewing:

  2. #2
    I've got a lot to say about this post (which surprises nobody: I have a lot to say about every post, it seems), and I'll write up a proper response because I think it has a lot of points that need talking about properly. Will have fun with this, I think.
    Basketball.

  3. #3
    His Dad has already made it publicly known he will not play for New Orleans. No thanks!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochican View Post
    His Dad has already made it publicly known he will not play for New Orleans. No thanks!
    That's obviously point 1 of any argument against him.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochican View Post
    His Dad has already made it publicly known he will not play for New Orleans. No thanks!
    Yep. But a lot has changed since then. New management, a prominent new potential teammate, a new feeling around the organization. And if he gets traded, he's under team control, at minimum, for 3 years (2+ qualifying offer, or match). I guess he could go to Europe or China or something, but besides some annoying stuff from Lavar, I think he would play here and would play well if he's interested in getting paid on his second deal. If I'm Griffin/Langdon and I believe in his talent, I gather information and I try to figure out whether I can get him to buy in.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    Yep. But a lot has changed since then. New management, a prominent new potential teammate, a new feeling around the organization. And if he gets traded, he's under team control, at minimum, for 3 years (2+ qualifying offer, or match). I guess he could go to Europe or China or something, but besides some annoying stuff from Lavar, I think he would play here and would play well if he's interested in getting paid on his second deal. If I'm Griffin/Langdon and I believe in his talent, I gather information and I try to figure out whether I can get him to buy in.
    Not writing up my full response right now, but I just wanna point out how ridiculous the idea of having to convince a 3rd year, perennially injured PG with no offensive game to 'buy in' is, in a trade for Anthony Davis.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Not writing up my full response right now, but I just wanna point out how ridiculous the idea of having to convince a 3rd year, perennially injured PG with no offensive game to 'buy in' is, in a trade for Anthony Davis.
    Don't disagree with this. I said something similar in the OP.

    I do think he would have no actual leverage except having Lavar be annoying in the media, which is whatever. The question is whether you think the player is worth the potential headache.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    Don't disagree with this. I said something similar in the OP.

    I do think he would have no actual leverage except having Lavar be annoying in the media, which is whatever. The question is whether you think the player is worth the potential headache.
    Will have to read the OP in detail before giving my full response, but yeah that's at least part of the gamble.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochican View Post
    His Dad has already made it publicly known he will not play for New Orleans. No thanks!
    This is false.

    His dad said they didn't want him to be traded to NOLA because we already had an established PG. If we don't resign Payton and Jrue is slotted at SG (as he should be), that's not a big deal.

    It's time to put this quote to bed or at least use it in its entirety. Not out of context.

    That being said, I'm not a fan of Ball and would rather he not be here.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    This is false.

    His dad said they didn't want him to be traded to NOLA because we already had an established PG. If we don't resign Payton and Jrue is slotted at SG (as he should be), that's not a big deal.

    It's time to put this quote to bed or at least use it in its entirety. Not out of context.

    That being said, I'm not a fan of Ball and would rather he not be here.
    Any time you're talking about a 21 year old multi-millionaire professional and you have to start it with ''his dad said'', it almost always sounds really depressing.

  11. #11
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    It's a hard pass for me.

  12. #12
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I want nothing to do with him.

  13. #13
    Those who are saying absolutely no: because of his Dad and what they said re: New Orleans, basketball fit, injuries, or all of the above? Would you feel differently if the off-court stuff didn't exist?

  14. #14
    too much drama with this one...pass

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Any time you're talking about a 21 year old multi-millionaire professional and you have to start it with ''his dad said'', it almost always sounds really depressing.
    NORMALLY in the case of Lonzo Ball. And it is a main reason I don't want him here (it might actually be the only reason because it colors everything sour for me).

    But with this one quote, his dad was asked what they thought about the AD trade rumors and he responded that they would rather he not be traded here because we already had an established PG. People ask family about that stuff all the time. In fact, it was Zion's stepdad who came out and said he would love to play in NOLA.

    I know you meant your statement as in Levar's behavior as a whole and not just that one quote. And I agree with you. Just getting on my soapbox about people still using that quote out of context.

  16. #16
    Here's my full response:

    It's incredibly difficult to ignore Lonzo's various personal failings. I will try to do so. I will try to ignore the fact that he let his dad run his entire media presence for multiple years, leading to insane drama that's obnoxious, ignorant, and irritating. That's a choice he made, and it's one I dislike. I will try to ignore the fact that he has released a rap album in the middle of an NBA season, show-casing a lack of maturity and focus that I'd want from a player. I will try to ignore the various controversies surrounding whether or not he would actually even want to play in New Orleans, and I will ignore the absurdity of him being able to dictate where he plays at this point in his career. A lot of this is covered in the OP, so more detail is not necessary.

    There are 5 major factors to consider when it comes to pretty much any player. Let's see how Lonzo stacks up.

    1) Offense.
    Lonzo doesn't have any. It's not news to anyone that Lonzo Ball is a horrifically bad scorer. He improved somewhat this year in terms of percentages, but this was not an improvement from bad to good, or even bad to decent. It was an improvement from all-time horrifically bad, to just regular season awful. Lonzo Ball is a guard who shoots free throws worse than Shaq and Drummond. He's a guy who was drafted based largely on his college reputation as a sniper who cannot shoot. I am not in the camp of people who believe his jump shot will start to fall: it is mechanically broken. It's just wrong. Like MKG, Lonzo Ball has a jumper that will never work in its current form. Given the importance of shooting in today's NBA, it is very difficult to find a way to excuse a guard for being so genuinely appalling from 3. The only way it can be forgiven is if he's an elite slasher or scorer at the rim, and of course, he is not. Lonzo Ball cannot get to the rim with any reliability: that's hwy he shot only 30.8% of his total shots this season within 3 feet of the basket. If you cannot shoot, it should be priority number one to get to the rim, and Lonzo cannot do that. His first step is not quick enough to get past most defenders, and although he's got a solid handle and is crafty with the ball, he cannot finish with either hand. It's absolutely terrible, and he does not appear to have the offensive instincts naturally that would be required.

    I'm aware that the OP notes that Lonzo's ability to push the pace and run out in transition. The problem is that while this is listed as a positive to Zion's game, I don't see it that way. Zion can play offball, sure, but he does a lot of his best work with the ball in his hands, running the transition himself, and frankly, he's a much better candidate to be that one-man-fast-break due to his incredible ability to finish. He's also a good passer as well: not quite as good as Lonzo, sure, but perfectly capable. To ensure maximum development in Zion's game, it should be a priority to put the ball in his hands and let him create. Taking the ball out of his hands and relegating him to a cutter and dunker arguably neutralises a lot of what makes him special. And of course, if you DO see sense and hand Zion the ball, Lonzo being on the court hurts his game again, as he cannot shoot whatsoever and his presence removes a kick-out threat and allows opposing defenses to close in on him without having to worry about their man in the corner. That's a real issue that I think is unforgivable. A lot of what is talked about here can be worked around or tweaked, but the idea that Lonzo's inability to shoot and ball-dominant play style could hinder Zion's development, even 5%, is completely unacceptable.

    In order to be an effective scoring threat at all, Lonzo Ball would need to have his entire jump shot reworked from the ground up, in what is probably a multi-season process. The instincts for finishing and driving are not the kind of thing which can be taught easily; he will either figure it out himself, or he won't. That's a dangerous coinflip to be taking on someone. Trading for Lonzo essentially means accepting that you are going to be paying a man who cannot score for at least another 2 or 3 years. That's horrible. He gets 0 points as scorer and offensive threat.

    2) Defense
    This is kind of Lonzo's thing, and a lot has been said about it, so I won't say too much. He is a legitimately good defender. He is not great. I've seen some people say that he's a future DPOY, which is not true at all. He is, however, probably a future all-defensive team member at least a handful of times. He's pretty long, has decent sized hands, and anticipates fairly well. The problem for him here is discipline: he gambles, and he gets burned. Sometimes he's fast enough to recover, sometimes he isn't. Sometimes it pays off as a steal, sometimes it allows him to be bypassed for a score. His fundamentals are pretty good. He would be a legitimately great defensive partner for Jrue and Zion, sure. The problem for Lonzo as a defender plays into the next section, which is

    3) IQ
    It feels weird to say this about someone who is such a great passer, but Lonzo has a serious issue with really reading and absorbing what's going on on court. It's like he has selective vision: he's capable of observing a game and breaking down some fantastic passes, but his vision and ability to read plays is completely reduced to zero whenever scoring is involved. It's a real problem. Some of his better passes come from him simply giving the ball up to someone else because he can't see the obvious and open offensive opportunity in front of him, or he's too scared to take it. Passing is one thing when it's a tool that's used to open up the offense. It's another when it's something you do to bail yourself out of the fact that you're incapable for making plays for yourself. This is actually mentioned in the video that's linked in the OP as well: Lonzo is not a great creator. He can pass very well, but he's not very able to actually manufacture plays for others on his own. This is a problem for a pass-first guard. Someone like Nash was able to utilise his insane IQ and passing ability to the maximum because while it wasn't his primary skill, he was at least a credible scoring threat (50/40/90 guy, remember?) who had to attract some defensive attention. Lonzo isn't like that. There are times where he's given a bunch of space to shoot in where the defense leaves him open because of his poor scoring ability, but rather than drive he will freeze up and shoot the stupid shot anyway. That's an IQ problem.

    Similarly, the defensive gambles and lack of discipline that I mentioned earlier come back into play.

    4) Availability
    It has been said, rightfully so, that one of the most valuable traits a player can have is the ability to play in the first place, with regularity. Lonzo has played two seasons in the NBA now: that's 164 games he could have possibly played. Lonzo has played 99 games. That's right: 65 missed games in two seasons. He has not played more than 52 games in a year. That is really, really bad. This is something to be legitimately concerned with. Even if his dad got shut up and he came to New Orleans, he still might end up spending half the year on the bench. Of course, maybe it's just bad luck, but there's something to be considered for this. Players get labelled injury prone for less, and given Lonzo's relatively gangly frame it wouldn't surprise me if there was more of this kind of thing in the future.

    Given all of that, I think it's pretty obvious that taking on Lonzo is a big gamble for a bunch of reasons.

    He might develop a three point shot, but he might not. He might learn how to drive with aggression, he might not. He might learn how to finish at the rim, he might not. He might learn how to use that gravity to create for others, he might not. He might stay healthy, he might not. His dad might cause drama, he might not.

    Now, if Lonzo was the 3rd or 4th best asset in a trade, maybe you take that risk anyway: maybe it's worth it if he's just a bonus. But he's not. Like the OP said, Ingram's game has been just as up and down as Lonzo's if not worse, and he's also an injury threat, so he can't be the #1. Kuzma can't play D just like Ball can't play O, and he can't shoot either, so he can't be the #1. Their pick is #4 in a widely-viewed-as-3-man draft, so league-wide, it doesn't hold huge value. They don't have a mass of future picks with better odds of being good: they've only got their own picks, so that's not optimal. So therefore Lonzo must be good for all that to be worth risking. And he's not, because he's a huge risk too.

    With all of that in mind, and returning to all of the drama and personal problems, Lonzo is just a big no, for me. I don't want him on this team. Far too many things would have to fall into luck for it to work out in the best possible way, and I'm not gambling Zion's development and the future peace and stability of the franchise on Lonzo. He's not worth it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    NORMALLY in the case of Lonzo Ball. And it is a main reason I don't want him here (it might actually be the only reason because it colors everything sour for me).

    But with this one quote, his dad was asked what they thought about the AD trade rumors and he responded that they would rather he not be traded here because we already had an established PG. People ask family about that stuff all the time. In fact, it was Zion's stepdad who came out and said he would love to play in NOLA.

    I know you meant your statement as in Levar's behavior as a whole and not just that one quote. And I agree with you. Just getting on my soapbox about people still using that quote out of context.
    The difference between Zion and Ball is pretty clear though. Zion is 18 years old and hasn't made a ton of money living as an independent yet, and he also doesn't have a history of his stepdad doing this. For him, it's a college student who had his stepdad clear one thing up. For Lonzo, it's been almost as much the Lavar Ball show as it has been the Lonzo Ball show since he stepped into the limelight, and to have it still going on multiple years into his career is kind of pathetic.

  18. #18
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    Those who are saying absolutely no: because of his Dad and what they said re: New Orleans, basketball fit, injuries, or all of the above? Would you feel differently if the off-court stuff didn't exist?
    I've gone to bat with much worse off the court players in the past.

    I could not care less about his dad. I don't want Ball because he is just a good passer who plays great defense.

    That's not enough. If he were something more useful on offense, I'd be cool. But that shot is unforgivable.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post

    With all of that in mind, and returning to all of the drama and personal problems, Lonzo is just a big no, for me. I don't want him on this team. Far too many things would have to fall into luck for it to work out in the best possible way, and I'm not gambling Zion's development and the future peace and stability of the franchise on Lonzo. He's not worth it.
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think there are a lot of fair concerns here. I have some minor quibbles that explain why I think it's worth considering the risk, recognizing I'm in the minority here.

    I think Lonzo is a terrible scorer, but I think he's such a good passer that he ends up being pretty close to neutral offensively. I think if he can become merely below average as a scorer he will be a really good player. I think there are widespread positive effects on a team to have a special passer. Fast breaks run better, actions on one side of the floor that get a defense rotating can have a domino effect resulting in an open 3 or dunk, other players start to look for passes and expect to receive passes that wouldn't otherwise. I agree that I want Zion to have opportunities to initiate offense, and in that sense I like that Lonzo doesn't pound the ball or have the ball stick in comparison to most young guards; for instance, Dennis Smith Jr is the type of player I would not want to see him with.

    The players I think he is most similar to, including Kidd, Gary Payton, Rondo, and Rubio all started out various degrees of inefficient. All of those guys improved their efficiency in their early 20s to a greater or lesser degree. None became outstanding scorers but they had enough other strengths to be considered very good players. I expect a similar progression but everyone is different. It is a reasonable question how effective some of those guys would have been in the modern NBA.

    I think for age his basketball IQ is incredibly high and that isn't a concern for me.

    I think Zion can certainly lead the break too when it works out that way, but even if that guy isn't Lonzo, we need one (or several) guys who can get him the ball quickly and accurately when he leaks out to realize his full potential on the break. That's a skill I'm looking for if I'm David Griffin. He's a special finisher and is faster than anyone else who plays his position. More passers on the break and more guys who start the break are better than less.

    I didn't mention the injury history, but it's a big deal. With the previous training staff, I wouldn't consider him. Nelson had a reputation in Phoenix for helping guys who were injury prone stay healthy and I would be more willing to take on a player with some injury concerns.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    I think there are widespread positive effects on a team to have a special passer.
    https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!?PlayerID...gular%20Season

    Without improved shooting, Ball is arguably not any better than the player the Pelican already have.

  21. #21
    Nah, hard pass.

  22. #22
    lmfao no

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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bahmamamba View Post
    lmfao no

    Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
    There’s a significant chance this happens. AD is probably going somewhere. The Lakers are probably the most desperate team that could realistically get him. Lonzo more or less has to be involved in any Lakers trade. There’s a chance that Griffin and Gentry might prefer him to, say, a third rookie with the 7th pick if he gets moved. I’m not saying it’s the right call, but it’s worth talking about.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm View Post
    The players I think he is most similar to, including Kidd, Gary Payton, Rondo, and Rubio all started out various degrees of inefficient. All of those guys improved their efficiency in their early 20s to a greater or lesser degree. None became outstanding scorers but they had enough other strengths to be considered very good players. I expect a similar progression but everyone is different. It is a reasonable question how effective some of those guys would have been in the modern NBA.
    I've seen a lot of people make these comparisons, and outside of Rubio and maybe Kidd, I don't really think they work at all. Rubio is the closest to being accurate, but it's not exactly a flattering comparison for Lonzo: Rubio still struggles to create offensive pressure and he still can't score with anything like the aggression or command that you would want from a non-shooting guard. The reason the comparisons with Payton, and Rondo don't work is pretty simple. It's true that early in their careers, neither of them could shoot, but if you take a look at all of them in their second season and their ability to score inside, it's a different story. The advanced shooting stats didn't exist early in Payton's career, but we know that in his second year, he shot essentially 46% from 2 point range, and because he couldn't shoot threes, he didn't waste the possessions bricking. Similarly, with Rondo (who the advanced stats do exist for) we know that in his second season, Rondo shot 43% of his FGAs within 3 feet of the basket: Lonzo only takes 30.9% of his FGAs within that range. Why this difference? Simple: Rondo could get to the basket and generate offensive opportunities for himself, which led to better offensive opportunities for his teammates. Lonzo can't do that because he does not have the ability to get the rim with any reliability, and that reduces him to shooting terrible three pointers that absolutely nobody is scared of.

    I accept that his basketball IQ is high in certain regards: he certainly has the eye for passing, and as I mentioned in my initial post, he's got good anticipation on defense. That's definitely there. The issue is that his IQ as a scorer is practically none existent, and being a passer is not the same as being a playmaker. Being a good playmaker requires you to have some offensive pressure of your own so that you can draw defenders and create opportunities for your team. Lonzo does not do this at this stage of his career because he cannot create offensive pressure, and cannot draw defenders with anything like a respectable frequency.

    Again, the ability to have Lonzo playing off-ball with Zion works if Lonzo can shoot. He can't, therefore if he doesn't have the ball in his hands (particularly in transition which is the only place he can score with any consistency) he is not a threat on offense. Lonzo Ball being on the floor makes everything more difficult for everyone: either he has the ball in his hands on offense, in which case we remove opportunities from Zion to advance his ability as a playmaker and develop, or he plays OFF the ball and allows defenses to collapse in on Zion in the paint because Lonzo presents no outside shooting threat. Either way, that's serious drawbacks.

    You're totally right that Nelson makes it somewhat more acceptible to take in injury risk players than the previous staff. That doesn't mean that injury risks are negligible.

    Think about the situation we are in. We are trading Anthony Davis. Regardless of what you think of him on a personal level, this guy is a top top tier player. He's 28/12 with 2 blocks every night without even trying. We saw his passing take another leap this year. He's big time.

    When you trade him, given out medical staff now, are you willing to take a chance on someone with an injury risk? Sure, maybe you are. Are you willing to take a chance on someone with a big injury risk as the primary centrepiece of the trade? God no. Not even close. It's not even worth considering. Given that Ingram already IS the big injury risk, you cannot accept Lonzo as yet ANOTHER injury risk in the same trade. We cannot afford to deal Anthony Davis for broken pieces and wishful thinking. It would be the doom of this franchise in a lot of ways.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 05-26-2019 at 10:33 AM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiewoof View Post
    https://stats.nba.com/vs/#!?PlayerID...gular%20Season

    Without improved shooting, Ball is arguably not any better than the player the Pelican already have.
    Also this

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