AD trade scenarios...

[Pelicanidae]

I agree in a starting lineup of 5 there is room at most for two non shooters. Zion will be one. You have to assume whatever center he gets paired with will be the other. We simply cannot run a lineup with Zion, Ball, and any regular center. It's far easier to get an above average shooting guard than a center which is why I think for the good things Ball does, he's about 10 years too late for the current NBA.

Ball, plus free throw shooting, would have been a top 20 player in 1975.

I agree, by the way, that the starting 5 can't really afford to have more than 2 complete non shooters in it. Zion's shot has shown some promise but it's FAR from being a frequently usable tool, so yep, he can't really be relied on to shoot. Whatever centre he ends up playing with, whether that's Okafor or Robinson or Jarrett Allen or Montrezl Harrell or whoever probably won't be particularly able to shoot other. So the other three guys need to be at least decent shooters. Jrue is that: a decent shooter. Not great, but not horrendous. That means the other 2 guys NEED to be able to shoot. It's pretty much a requirement.

Brown and Tatum fit that, they can both shoot. Shamet and SGA would fit that from LAC. Brooklyn could give one, in Joe Harris (47.4% from 3). Knicks could offer one in Allonzo Trier (39.4% from three).

Who can LA offer that's a real sharp shooter? Ball shoots 31% from 3. Kuzma, 30%. Ingram, about 32%.

Think about this: of all Lakers players this year who played at least 41 games (half the season) the two best three point shooters were Lance Stephenson and Rajon Rondo.

[msusousaphone]

I agree with your entire post except the premise that the FO is out to find that this offseason. I bet they have the mindset of forming the outside of the puzzle this year and filling in the pieces over the next two seasons. Have a complete contender in three years. So it wouldn't surprise me to see us going into this season with gaping holes.

But that's only if the FO sees Ball as one of the centerpieces they want to build around.....same with Robinson. I don't really believe that but there are the old quotes of Griffin and Gentry praising Ball. Just saying there is a small chance.

This is all just playing Devil's Advocate. I really like Tatum and Brown as the best fit like you guys say. God, this next week and change will be sloooooooow.

[Taker597]

OK, I have one I think I like.

Three team trade with the Knicks and Wizards. AD goes to the Knicks, Beal to the Pelicans and most of the Knicks' assets go to the Wizards. I don't know if this would be enough going to the Wizards, but most of the projected deals I have seen for Beal have been less than expected.

Knicks get AD and two second rounds from the Pelicans (2019 and 2020). The picks might need to go to the Wizards though.

Wizards get Knox, Ntilinka, Thomas and a 2023 1st from the Knicks and Hill from the Pelicans. (I tried to give them Moore too, but it didn't work).

Pelicans get Beal from the Wizards and DSJ, Robinson, 2019 #3 overall and both 2021 firsts from the Knicks.

Again, I don't know if the Wizards would go for something like this and some of the picks might have to be moved around, but I think I like this one. Certainly the Knicks and Pelicans should be happy with it, since the Knicks get AD and the Pelicans get Beal plus probably Barrett and two picks in the 2021 draft. The Pelicans could then re-sign Payton and would still have some money available for some targeted free agents.

Of all the convuleted 3 team trades I like this one.. Wizard are probably gonna be hard tanking for cheap talent or draft picks till Wall Supermax is off the books.

We may have to give up a 1st to Wizards to take most of Knicks trash assets.

[WildlifeAirGrp]

John Wall's entire game is based around his speed and athleticism, and his ankle just exploded. Put that with the size of his salary at basically $40m per until 2023, and I'm not interested in him at all.

Like I said....what do I know. Didn't even know Wall was injured. Yeah, why get saddled with another SH-type contract. I'll just sit on the sidelines and see what the Master eventually comes up with. Exciting times for sure.

[Mount Zion]

Of all the convuleted 3 team trades I like this one.. Wizard are probably gonna be hard tanking for cheap talent or draft picks till Wall Supermax is off the books.

We may have to give up a 1st to Wizards to take most of Knicks trash assets.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid giving up either of the 2021 picks to the Wizards. Maybe it would work moving the two seconds to them, but I sent them to the Knicks assuming they would need to fill out the bench cheaply if they had AD and a couple of max guys. This trade would surround Zion with Beal and Jrue (plus DSJ) at guard, Robinson and Barrett. Add a shooting guard with next year's pick and the Pelicans would go into that 2021 draft with three first to fill out that championship roster.

[Pelicanidae]

Like I said....what do I know. Didn't even know Wall was injured. Yeah, why get saddled with another SH-type contract. I'll just sit on the sidelines and see what the Master eventually comes up with. Exciting times for sure.

Yeah, he ruptured his Achilles last season, that was when Beal really took off for them and went Super Saiyan.

[Pelicanidae]

No idea... I was told half the league has logged interest and that griff and company are sifting through their options. https://t.co/1Zf0bqC2YG

— Steve Kyler (@stevekylerNBA) June 9, 2019

Obviously I've spoken about how much I do not really trust Kyler before, so I'm not putting this here to say ''here is a concrete source''. I'm just putting it here in case anyone is interested, as a piece of ongoing commentary.

[msusousaphone]

Let's have a fight over which half of the league didn't submit a deal!!!

Kidding. Let's not do that.

[Pelicanidae]

Let's have a fight over which half of the league didn't submit a deal!!!

Kidding. Let's not do that.

Here's my arbitrary boundary: Detroit, NYC, Brooklyn, LAC, LA, Orlando, Atlanta, San Antonio, Houston, Miami, OKC, Denver, Philadelphia, Phoenix, and Charlotte all submitted a proposal.

Nobody else did.

Source: Me, making it up, just now.

[Mythrol]

AD must have made it clear he's not coming back. Glad to hear there's interest from a good portion of the NBA, assuming that's accurate. Of course I think most of us could have said the same thing without hearing anything from sources. AD is a hot commodity in today's NBA.

Hopefully we get a haul for him.

[PELICANSFAN]

OK, I have one I think I like.

Three team trade with the Knicks and Wizards. AD goes to the Knicks, Beal to the Pelicans and most of the Knicks' assets go to the Wizards. I don't know if this would be enough going to the Wizards, but most of the projected deals I have seen for Beal have been less than expected.

Knicks get AD and two second rounds from the Pelicans (2019 and 2020). The picks might need to go to the Wizards though.

Wizards get Knox, Ntilinka, Thomas and a 2023 1st from the Knicks and Hill from the Pelicans. (I tried to give them Moore too, but it didn't work).

Pelicans get Beal from the Wizards and DSJ, Robinson, 2019 #3 overall and both 2021 firsts from the Knicks.

Again, I don't know if the Wizards would go for something like this and some of the picks might have to be moved around, but I think I like this one. Certainly the Knicks and Pelicans should be happy with it, since the Knicks get AD and the Pelicans get Beal plus probably Barrett and two picks in the 2021 draft. The Pelicans could then re-sign Payton and would still have some money available for some targeted free agents.

I don't think that is close to enough to get Beal. I think Beal is a fantasy anyway. He is their only player and they have no GM.

[Pelicanidae]

This is more in reference to free agency than to trades, but I think it still holds a lot of relevance.

If you’re the Lakers you should not longer think of yourselves as choosers. You are beggars and need to be happy with whatever you get. You get Tobias Harris, you just be grateful. https://t.co/GmAIlbqmpC

— Hardwood Paroxysm (@HPbasketball) June 9, 2019

[NMThreeMVP]

Ball, plus free throw shooting, would have been a top 20 player in 1975.

I agree, by the way, that the starting 5 can't really afford to have more than 2 complete non shooters in it. Zion's shot has shown some promise but it's FAR from being a frequently usable tool, so yep, he can't really be relied on to shoot. Whatever centre he ends up playing with, whether that's Okafor or Robinson or Jarrett Allen or Montrezl Harrell or whoever probably won't be particularly able to shoot other. So the other three guys need to be at least decent shooters. Jrue is that: a decent shooter. Not great, but not horrendous. That means the other 2 guys NEED to be able to shoot. It's pretty much a requirement.

Brown and Tatum fit that, they can both shoot. Shamet and SGA would fit that from LAC. Brooklyn could give one, in Joe Harris (47.4% from 3). Knicks could offer one in Allonzo Trier (39.4% from three).

Who can LA offer that's a real sharp shooter? Ball shoots 31% from 3. Kuzma, 30%. Ingram, about 32%.

Think about this: of all Lakers players this year who played at least 41 games (half the season) the two best three point shooters were Lance Stephenson and Rajon Rondo.

Are we sure Alonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation? Or that his shooting is real, based on 2 attempts per game?

Josh Hart, who could be in the Lakers deal, put up very similar numbers his rookie year. If we're being fair and you're giving the Knicks credit for being able to offer Trier to be that sharp shooter you say we need, wouldn't it only be fair to give the Lakers credit for being able to offer Hart?

[Pelicanidae]

Are we sure Alonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation? Or that his shooting is real, based on 2 attempts per game?

Josh Hart, who could be in the Lakers deal, put up very similar numbers his rookie year. If we're being fair and you're giving the Knicks credit for being able to offer Trier to be that sharp shooter you say we need, wouldn't it only be fair to give the Lakers credit for being able to offer Hart?

Josh Hart shot 33.4% from three this year. No idea if Allonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation in future, but we're not trying to set up ''The Team''. What we have after this trade should be some key pieces that we want to keep long term, sure, but a lot of the peripherals are stop-gap solutions and filler names. It doesn't matter if Allonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation on a serious contending team, because we won't BE a serious contending team, and when we are one in three years and we're still trying to play Trier, then we have bigger problems.

Part of the reason I feel slightly more confident with Trier moving forward than Hart is FT shooting. All other things equal, good shooter are usually pretty good FT shooters. Hart shot 70% from the line his rookie season, and 68% this season. Trier shot 80.3% from the line this season, which isn't elite but is much better. Obviously different number of attempts, still, but the FT stroke is the one which is usually the most consistent throughout a career.

I like Josh Hart. He did shoot well in his rookie season, and I've generally considered him pretty much vital for any Lakers offer that wants to be taken seriously, but the regression is still unpleasant to see.

[NMThreeMVP]

Josh Hart shot 33.4% from three this year. No idea if Allonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation in future, but we're not trying to set up ''The Team''. What we have after this trade should be some key pieces that we want to keep long term, sure, but a lot of the peripherals are stop-gap solutions and filler names. It doesn't matter if Allonzo Trier cracks an 8 man rotation on a serious contending team, because we won't BE a serious contending team, and when we are one in three years and we're still trying to play Trier, then we have bigger problems.

Part of the reason I feel slightly more confident with Trier moving forward than Hart is FT shooting. All other things equal, good shooter are usually pretty good FT shooters. Hart shot 70% from the line his rookie season, and 68% this season. Trier shot 80.3% from the line this season, which isn't elite but is much better. Obviously different number of attempts, still, but the FT stroke is the one which is usually the most consistent throughout a career.

I like Josh Hart. He did shoot well in his rookie season, and I've generally considered him pretty much vital for any Lakers offer that wants to be taken seriously, but the regression is still unpleasant to see.

Josh Hart's only in his second year. He's only one year older than Trier. His rookie year he shot more 3s and at a higher percentage than Trier. We also have a pretty good sample size of Josh Hart from playing 4 years in the Big East. Trier meanwhile, goes undrafted because of off the court issues, including a PED suspension while at Arizona. I''m still trying to figure out how you throw Trier in to make the point that the Knicks could give you a shooter in your previous post, and completely forget about Hart?

Trier and Hart are that meme of the two spidermen pointing at each other, only Hart won a lot in college and doesn't have the questionable character concerns.

[Mount Zion]

Josh Hart's only in his second year. He's only one year older than Trier. His rookie year he shot more 3s and at a higher percentage than Trier. We also have a pretty good sample size of Josh Hart from playing 4 years in the Big East. Trier meanwhile, goes undrafted because of off the court issues, including a PED suspension while at Arizona. I''m still trying to figure out how you throw Trier in to make the point that the Knicks could give you a shooter in your previous post, and completely forget about Hart?

Trier and Hart are that meme of the two spidermen pointing at each other, only Hart won a lot in college and doesn't have the questionable character concerns.

I had Hart on my fantasy team this year. So how do the Pelicans go about getting Hart without having to take any of the rest of that stuff from the Lakers?

[Pelicanidae]

Josh Hart's only in his second year. He's only one year older than Trier. His rookie year he shot more 3s and at a higher percentage than Trier. We also have a pretty good sample size of Josh Hart from playing 4 years in the Big East. Trier meanwhile, goes undrafted because of off the court issues, including a PED suspension while at Arizona. I''m still trying to figure out how you throw Trier in to make the point that the Knicks could give you a shooter in your previous post, and completely forget about Hart?

Trier and Hart are that meme of the two spidermen pointing at each other, only Hart won a lot in college and doesn't have the questionable character concerns.

You're being silly again, NM. ''a higher percentage than Trier''. He shot 39.6% in comparison to Trier's 39.4%. It's a higher percentage by the tiniest, of tiniest, of tiny margins. They both shot within 0.2% of each other, I wouldn't be throwing around superlatives.

I don't care who got drafted or at which spot. Once you're in the NBA, what matters is your NBA production, and Hart and Trier have produced at very similar levels as rookies, and then Hart declined in basically all categories in his second year.

I mentioned Trier to make a point about the Knicks because he shot 39% this year. I DIDN'T mention Hart because I was looking at their roster (to make sure I didn't miss any players, like Caruso, for example, who shot much better but played too few games to hit the 50% mark) and Hart only shot (like I said) 33.6% this year. So I left him off, cause I was looking at THIS YEAR'S production, and he DIDN'T PRODUCE.

Not really sure how this is a shocking ''gotcha'' for you.

[Gant-]

"Ball, plus free throw shooting, would have been a top 20 player in 1975."



^ That is just a throwaway line but he'd be nowhere near top 20 in 1975. There were a lot of great players in those years. Here's the 1974 and 1975 all star game rosters. Just in these groups there are over 25 players far better than Lonzo regardless of ft%. There were many other guys who didn't make the game who were also better.


https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_1974.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_1975.html


Then add a lot of these guys: https://www.basketball-reference.com.../ABA_1975.html

[Pels4Life]

If we get ball we should just trade him to phoenix for the #6 pick and draft Darius Garland or Coby White. PG situation handled.

[pelicanchamp]

What about AD to the ROCKETS? 3 team trade

PELS receive: Clint Cappela, PJ Tucker, Aaron Holiday

PACERS receive Eric Gordon

ROCKETS receive: AD and 2 future 2nd round picks from the PELS.

The trade would have to be adjusted for Indiana to take Gordon’s salary. I think this is a realistic trade.




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[Pelicanidae]

If we get ball we should just trade him to phoenix for the #6 pick and draft Darius Garland or Coby White. PG situation handled.

Not a big fan of either.

Garland shot fantastically at a college level, but he doesn't play a lick of defense, he only played a handful of games before getting injured, and his actual shot release is pretty suspect. His guide hand does very little.

Coby White's wingspan is pretty negligible although he does have good height. Not as good a shooter as Garland, and not a great defender either: has a weirdly thin torso and narrow shoulders that will limit him on that side of the ball.

[Pels4Life]

What about AD to the ROCKETS? 3 team trade

PELS receive: Clint Cappela, PJ Tucker, Aaron Holiday

PACERS receive Eric Gordon

ROCKETS receive: AD and 2 future 2nd round picks from the PELS.

The trade would have to be adjusted for Indiana to take Gordon’s salary. I think this is a realistic trade.




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So you basically want to trade AD and two picks for Clint Capella. With all due respect, hate it.

[HornetGuru]

What about AD to the ROCKETS? 3 team trade

PELS receive: Clint Cappela, PJ Tucker, Aaron Holiday

PACERS receive Eric Gordon

ROCKETS receive: AD and 2 future 2nd round picks from the PELS.

The trade would have to be adjusted for Indiana to take Gordon’s salary. I think this is a realistic trade.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This a joke?

[Pels4Life]

Not a big fan of either.

Garland shot fantastically at a college level, but he doesn't play a lick of defense, he only played a handful of games before getting injured, and his actual shot release is pretty suspect. His guide hand does very little.

Coby White's wingspan is pretty negligible although he does have good height. Not as good a shooter as Garland, and not a great defender either: has a weirdly thin torso and narrow shoulders that will limit him on that side of the ball.

Who you think @ #6 if that trade happened?

[Biasvasospasm]

If we get ball we should just trade him to phoenix for the #6 pick and draft Darius Garland or Coby White. PG situation handled.

There are reasons why Phoenix would do that, and it’s because there are real doubts about those guys too.

I like Garland better than most, but he had a negative assist-to-turnover ratio, lacks point guard skills and feel, there are real finishing concerns, he has a small frame and is going to struggle on D.

White has many of the same concerns (is taller, but slight and doesn’t play his listed height) but lacks Garland’s special qualities as a shooter and is less impressive as a ball-handler. He is bigger and faster.

I don’t hate either guy as a prospect, but I wouldn’t expect either to be a winning basketball player until late in their rookie deal.