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Thread: AD trade scenarios...

  1. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    If Lonzo projected to be a slightly bigger version of Ricky Rubio, and a more versatile defender, wouldn't the majority of this board want to pair that guy with Zion???
    If Lonzo was a free agent with no drama attached who would cost sub-$8m and shot 85% from the free throw line and was a near lock for 70 games a year, then maybe.

    Unfortunately, we're talking about him as a key part in a trade for a top 5 player, who is going to get paid relatively soon, who plays barely over half his games and who shoots 44% from the FT line and is therefore a complete liability on offense. Rubio can't score but at least they can't hack him
    Paying attention to the next draft too early.

    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Oscar Tshiebwe endorser.

  2. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Lonzo is not a bad player. He has some weaknesses, particularly FT shooting. My bigger concerns with him are the distractions of his father and his health (particularly his feet). He has missed nearly 40% of his career games.
    Yea he shot near 40% from the FT which is horrible beyond belief....Shaq shot over 50%

  3. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by Pels4Life View Post
    Yea he shot near 40% from the FT which is horrible beyond belief....Shaq shot over 50%
    Lonzo is legitimately one of the worst FT shooters of all time.

    The only other people I can think of who shot such god awful percentages from the FT line are Ben Wallace and Deandre Jordan. Andre Drummond was worse for four years but he shoots 60% from the line now so he's escaped that group.

  4. #1179
    Lol.

    You guys on here harping on this man's FT%. As if the refs would actually give the Pelicans FTs.

    (All joke, not condescending)

  5. #1180
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Lol.

    You guys on here harping on this man's FT%. As if the refs would actually give the Pelicans FTs.

    (All joke, not condescending)
    Worse is, he only shoots 1 FT a game on average, for a PG. He really needs to improve that part of his game.

  6. #1181
    To me the deal with the FT shooting is he is a PG which is generally the preferred best FT shooter althought its not always the case just preferred. I am surprised he only shoots one a game as you would expect Hack-a-Zo to be a thing.

  7. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    If Lonzo projected to be a slightly bigger version of Ricky Rubio, and a more versatile defender, wouldn't the majority of this board want to pair that guy with Zion???
    The way the roster is set up right now and Duke struggles throughout the season with spacing. I think backcourt would need a sure thing shooter at PG or SG more so than a center that can create space..

  8. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by Pels4Life View Post
    To me the deal with the FT shooting is he is a PG which is generally the preferred best FT shooter althought its not always the case just preferred. I am surprised he only shoots one a game as you would expect Hack-a-Zo to be a thing.
    Part of the reason Hack-a-Zo isn't a big thing is that he doesn't attack. A lot of hacking comes where you foul rather than let them shoot. Lonzo doesn't drive, so he doesn't get hacked there, and he's such a dreadful three point shooter you just give him those cause he'll clank them anyway

  9. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Worse is, he only shoots 1 FT a game on average, for a PG. He really needs to improve that part of his game.
    That actually minimizes it a ton.

    In fact, if we are looking at him for play starting, assists, and D.....that renders the FT% argument a bit moot.

  10. #1185
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    That actually minimizes it a ton.

    In fact, if we are looking at him for play starting, assists, and D.....that renders the FT% argument a bit moot.
    Like I said. The reason he shoots so few is that he cannot drive. A PG who can't drive or shoot is a huge liability on offense. It even minimises his passing ability because he has no offensive gravity with which to manipulate defenses and create opportunities for others.

  11. #1186
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    That actually minimizes it a ton.

    In fact, if we are looking at him for play starting, assists, and D.....that renders the FT% argument a bit moot.
    Except that you want you PG to be able to shoot FTs. Also, the lack of shots means that instead of driving and creating contact, he is settling for 3s, which is not his best game.

  12. #1187
    No no no.

    Haha. Ah man. You guys just made this ridiculous. I mean, it IS a weakeness but that's not that big of a deal. It's not the gaping giant hole it's being made out to be.

    You guys have been hating on this guy for one free throw a game?!

    And the "you need your PG to shoot FT" thing is so old school. Things interchange so much in today's game, if other people can do it, you're fine.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-06-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  13. #1188
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    No no no.

    Haha. Ah man. You guys just made this ridiculous. I mean, it IS a weakeness but that's not that big of a deal.

    You guys have been hating on this guy for one free throw a game?!

    And the "you need your PG to shoot FT" thing is so old school. Things interchange so much in today's game, if other people can do it, you're fine.
    If your PG can't shoot, can't drive, and can't shoot FTs, I don't think it's "ridiculous" to think that's a problem.

    If he doesn't take many FTs you have to ask WHY that is.

    The answer is; he can't drive, so he settles for threes, and he can't shoot either.

  14. #1189
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If your PG can't shoot, can't drive, and can't shoot FTs, I don't think it's "ridiculous" to think that's a problem.

    If he doesn't take many FTs you have to ask WHY that is.

    The answer is; he can't drive, so he settles for threes, and he can't shoot either.
    Let's go back on memory lane a year ago when we beat the Lakers.

    https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/l...man.455106669/

    A guard that can't shoot in 2019 is about as useful... Well... Ben Simmons in the playoffs. Lol
    Last edited by Taker597; 06-06-2019 at 12:53 PM.

  15. #1190
    It IS a big deal he is terrible at the FT line. He's also a terrible shooter all around. The fact you have him in the 40s and Zion in the 60s means you cannot have both of them in the game to close out games. Especially in the playoffs. It just won't work. Defenders will pack the paint and dare Lonzo to shoot, anytime he tries to drive they will just foul him.

    With Zion he's big and strong enough that even when he drives he can finish through the contact. Lonzo tries to avoid the contact which is why his FG% is bad and even when he's fouled he cannot make it.

  16. #1191
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    It IS a big deal he is terrible at the FT line. He's also a terrible shooter all around. The fact you have him in the 40s and Zion in the 60s means you cannot have both of them in the game to close out games. Especially in the playoffs. It just won't work. Defenders will pack the paint and dare Lonzo to shoot, anytime he tries to drive they will just foul him.

    With Zion he's big and strong enough that even when he drives he can finish through the contact. Lonzo tries to avoid the contact which is why his FG% is bad and even when he's fouled he cannot make it.
    Ingram is also a 67% FT shooter.

    Put Zion, Ingram, and Lonzo out on court at the same time and you are BEGGING to bleed games away at the FT line.

  17. #1192
    I don’t want the drama. Maybe you could include him in a group deal for #7 or similar.

  18. #1193
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    I know Nelson is good, but he's not a miracle worker. But we atleast can trust that any injuries will be dealt with in as efficient a manner as possible, so I'm less worried about that.

    And Lamar is gonna have LaMelo Ball coming into the NBA real soon. He can't helicopter parent both of them at once. So hopefully that deals with that.

    I'm not a big fan of Lonzo, but at least he's a great defender and is really good in transition, so...whatever. I can get over it.

  19. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If your PG can't shoot, can't drive, and can't shoot FTs, I don't think it's "ridiculous" to think that's a problem.

    If he doesn't take many FTs you have to ask WHY that is.

    The answer is; he can't drive, so he settles for threes, and he can't shoot either.
    Lonzo compares very favorably to young Rubio. Rubio was a year older his first two years in the league, but they both shot .315 from 3pt line. Lonzo actually shoots a respectable 5 threes a game, whereas Rubio basically wouldn't shoot. I don't think anyone here would say they would't want young Rubio on the team, and Lonzo is actually a better rebounder and defender.

    How about Ben Simmons? Simmons makes Lonzo look like Steph Curry as a shooter. Both guys are big/versatile defenders. Lonzo is younger. Simmons missed an entire season with a foot injury. Is Simmons significantly better than Lonzo???

    If the trade was Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Kuzma, and the 1st pick... would anyone in the NBA Universe think that wasn't an insane return for AD????

    What % of Ben Simmons is Lonzo Ball? 100, 90, 80...? The only edge Simmons has is the 4 inches, but both are big for the position, so you can't really knock Lonzo for that.

    Lonzo is a cross between Ricky Rubio and Ben Simmons, and yall don't want that. That's crazy.

  20. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Lonzo compares very favorably to young Rubio. Rubio was a year older his first two years in the league, but they both shot .315 from 3pt line. Lonzo actually shoots a respectable 5 threes a game, whereas Rubio basically wouldn't shoot. I don't think anyone here would say they would't want young Rubio on the team, and Lonzo is actually a better rebounder and defender.

    How about Ben Simmons? Simmons makes Lonzo look like Steph Curry as a shooter. Both guys are big/versatile defenders. Lonzo is younger. Simmons missed an entire season with a foot injury. Is Simmons significantly better than Lonzo???

    If the trade was Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Kuzma, and the 1st pick... would anyone in the NBA Universe think that wasn't an insane return for AD????

    What % of Ben Simmons is Lonzo Ball? 100, 90, 80...? The only edge Simmons has is the 4 inches, but both are big for the position, so you can't really knock Lonzo for that.

    Lonzo is a cross between Ricky Rubio and Ben Simmons, and yall don't want that. That's crazy.
    When building a championship team in the west during the GSW dynasty. I wouldn't want a Simmons, Rubio, or Lonzo running point. I don't see it as a recipe for any success. It's more of treading water than actually pushing for a championship. Look at the conference finals... All 4 teams had very good point guards that can shoot and run the offense. When you look at what really hurt the two loser in conferences finals. Their points guard ridiculously outplayed or just played poorly with Lillard & Bledsoe. Talented scorong point guards went from being an albatross in the 2000s to being an essential need for winning a title. Curry changed the game, and a lot of people don't talk about it.
    Last edited by Taker597; 06-06-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  21. #1196
    I actually prefer Ben Simmons to Lonzo as he is pretty aggressive driver of the ball which caters to our style of play better. Yea and Ben is from LSU so there is that(j/k).
    Last edited by Pels4Life; 06-06-2019 at 01:11 PM.

  22. #1197
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Lonzo compares very favorably to young Rubio. Rubio was a year older his first two years in the league, but they both shot .315 from 3pt line. Lonzo actually shoots a respectable 5 threes a game, whereas Rubio basically wouldn't shoot. I don't think anyone here would say they would't want young Rubio on the team, and Lonzo is actually a better rebounder and defender.

    How about Ben Simmons? Simmons makes Lonzo look like Steph Curry as a shooter. Both guys are big/versatile defenders. Lonzo is younger. Simmons missed an entire season with a foot injury. Is Simmons significantly better than Lonzo???

    If the trade was Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Kuzma, and the 1st pick... would anyone in the NBA Universe think that wasn't an insane return for AD????

    What % of Ben Simmons is Lonzo Ball? 100, 90, 80...? The only edge Simmons has is the 4 inches, but both are big for the position, so you can't really knock Lonzo for that.

    Lonzo is a cross between Ricky Rubio and Ben Simmons, and yall don't want that. That's crazy.
    If you're asking if Ben Simmons is better than Lonzo Ball, you're already lost.

    Simmons cannot shoot, but he can drive. He averages basically 17 PPG on 56% from the floor because he can actually drive. He is a threat to score, and if you foul him, he shoots 60% from the line which is definitely not great but is MUCH better than 41%.

    Simmons is a better rebounder than Lonzo, averaging 8.8 RPG as opposed to Lonzo's 5.3, so I'm not sure why you've decided Lonzo is better there.

    Ben Simmons has offensive gravity because he is a threat to drive and score, whereas Lonzo just isn't a factor in offensive play. Yes, Simmons, needs to learn to shoot, but so does Lonzo because while you argue that it's "respectable" to shoot 5 threes a game, I would argue that it's only "respectable" if you CAN shoot. Lonzo can't, so when he shoots 5 threes a game it's not "respectable" at all, it's a sign of his fear of driving and indicative of a low scoring IQ.

    If Andre Drummond started jacking up threes next season and shot 31% we shouldn't be applauding it as respectable. We'd say he's making dumb offensive plays and wasting possessions because he CANT shoot. Lonzo is in the exact same boat.

  23. #1198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    When building a championship team in the west during the GSW dynasty. I wouldn't want a Simmons, Rubio, or Lonzo running point. I don't see it as a recipe for any success. It's more of treading water than actually pushing for a championship. Look at the conference finals... All 4 teams had very good point guards that can shoot and run the offense. When you look at what really hurt the two loser in conferences finals. Their points guard ridiculously outplayed or just played poorly with Lillard & Bledsoe.
    We're not building a championship team in the West during the GSW dynasty. The goal should be to have a championship team in 4 or 5 years and allow Zion to develop. The only player I'm 90+% confident in pairing with Zion 5 years from now is Tatum. If Celtics offer him and other pieces, great!

  24. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    We're not building a championship team in the West during the GSW dynasty. The goal should be to have a championship team in 4 or 5 years and allow Zion to develop. The only player I'm 90+% confident in pairing with Zion 5 years from now is Tatum. If Celtics offer him and other pieces, great!
    dont forget about RJ with the 3rd pick from NY. We have seen RJ and Zion in action and its a pretty good thing with high potential.

  25. #1200
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    I think Ball is a very good player with some obvious weaknesses that need to be corrected or improved. I am in the minority in that I think I would rather keep Ball and hope for improvement than move him for #7 (unless I had guarantees that #7 would help get me to #2). However, I think you are overplaying this Laker deal if you think Ball is even in the same discussion as Simmons.

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