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Thread: AD trade scenarios...

  1. #776
    Paying attention to the next draft too early.

    Tyrese Maxey/Isaac Okoro/Oscar Tshiebwe endorser.

  2. #777
    Not sure you can totally discount mid-first-rounders. The Raptors don't have any starters that were taken in the lottery. Bucks core of Giannis, Middleton, Bledsoe and Brogdon? Not a lottery pick there either. Even the Warriors core (minus KD who came later as a FA) weren't top 5 picks. So, there are a few ways to skin the cat. Meanwhile, landing AD didn't propel the Pels very far and Harden can't get the Rockets to the finals, much less a championship. The more NBA I watch, the less I believe in the "great man" theory of roster building and the more I believe in building an organization, system and team that mesh and play together. Plus, those kinds of teams are a helluva lot more fun to watch. I even tired of watching Jordan put all his teammates behind a velvet rope and play iso ball. It's boring and unless you've got MJ or LeBron, it doesn't work...

  3. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    Not sure you can totally discount mid-first-rounders. The Raptors don't have any starters that were taken in the lottery. Bucks core of Giannis, Middleton, Bledsoe and Brogdon? Not a lottery pick there either. Even the Warriors core (minus KD who came later as a FA) weren't top 5 picks. So, there are a few ways to skin the cat. Meanwhile, landing AD didn't propel the Pels very far and Harden can't get the Rockets to the finals, much less a championship. The more NBA I watch, the less I believe in the "great man" theory of roster building and the more I believe in building an organization, system and team that mesh and play together. Plus, those kinds of teams are a helluva lot more fun to watch. I even tired of watching Jordan put all his teammates behind a velvet rope and play iso ball. It's boring and unless you've got MJ or LeBron, it doesn't work...
    I don't disagree.

    But the fact remains that if you want to win a ring, you need to have a star the vast majority of the time. That's not speculation, it's fact.

    This year's championship team will have either Curry/Durant, or Kawhi Leonard on it. Those guys are all superstars. In the past it's been Lebron, superstar. Tim Duncan, superstar. Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Kareem, superstars. Sure, every now and again there's a 2004 Pistons, but that's catching lightning in a bottle.

    And higher picks are just more likely to produce superstars, for the obvious reasons. For every Giannis that gets picked at #15, there's a Larry Sanders, a Kelly Oubre, Adreian Payne, or Austin Daye. For every Curry picked at #7 there's a Ben McLemore, Bismack Biyombo, Greg Monroe, Emmanuel Mudiaye, and Charlie Villenueva.

    But the #1 pick? No, it's no guarantee but if you look at the last 20 number one picks, you get 12 all-stars. You get Elton Brand, Yao Ming, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, AD, KAT, and Simmons. Yes, you get your Fultz's and your Greg Odens, but the higher the draft pick the better your chances of getting that superstar, and there's no real debate over it.

  4. #779
    It really depends how much a team values Barrett. It seems like the common opinion is Zion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morant >>>>>>>> Barrett >> The rest.

    If the Knicks (or Pels if trading with NY) don't feel as high on Barrett and think he's more comparable to the next tier down then it makes some sense to want 8 + 10 for 3. Clearly last year was a 5 / 6 player deep draft so trading out of the 3rd spot to go to 8 + 10 would have been harder since you could still get an outstanding player at 3. I don't think there's that same level of player in this draft.

  5. #780
    I would say it’s more
    Zion >>>>>>>>>> Morant >>> Barrett

  6. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    I would say it’s more
    Zion >>>>>>>>>> Morant >>> Barrett
    ZION >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morant >>> Barrett/Culver

  7. #782
    So what's the story on Hunter? Why isn't he getting more love? Is it due to him being an older sophomore at 21?

  8. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    So what's the story on Hunter? Why isn't he getting more love? Is it due to him being an older sophomore at 21?
    He has a pretty low ceiling in comparison to most other draft prospects.

    He's an accurate shooter, but his release is relatively slow in comparison with most of today's top shooters, and he isn't massively athletic. He's one of the best man-on-man defenders in this draft class, but he doesn't have that quick-twitch speed required for playing heavy off-ball defense, especially in a switch heavy system. He doesn't shoot particularly well off the dribble, he's more of a catch and shoot guy.

    It's also worth noting that one of the most reliable (as far as any of these metrics go) measures of how good a player will be at an NBA level is steal percentage, and Hunter performs shockingly poorly in that category, especially for a defensive prospect. Combine that with his mediocre passing, mediocre rebounding, and the fact that he is going to be 22 barely a few months into the season, and it makes sense that a lot teams would be less hot on him than some other players who might be less of a sure-fire prospect but who also have higher ceilings and more intriguing physiques.

  9. #784
    Hunter will be a very very good 3 and D in the league

  10. #785
    I also hesitate with the Ja>>>>RJ hype. Comparing just those two's projected draft status, the RJ love has been very consistent and really the biggest dip for him was more because of Zion's meteoric rise.There's a safety in that consistency. I don't think teams have that msny >s between the two.

    If what we think the offers to be are the actual offers, I would absolutely love that Knicks deal to get RJ, Knox, Robinson, and change.

  11. #786
    Especially now that the wind is whispering Tatum and the Celtics are leaving the bargaining table. Been waiting for that to happen. We kept hearing Kyrie was out and it would be foolish to trade for AD without him.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/5...n-pelicans-pod

  12. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Especially now that the wind is whispering Tatum and the Celtics are leaving the bargaining table. Been waiting for that to happen. We kept hearing Kyrie was out and it would be foolish to trade for AD without him.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/5...n-pelicans-pod
    This exactly why I thought waiting for the Celtics was a bad decision. It's been known for a while now that Irving was likely to leave Boston. Without Irving it makes far less sense to gamble on Davis.

  13. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Especially now that the wind is whispering Tatum and the Celtics are leaving the bargaining table. Been waiting for that to happen. We kept hearing Kyrie was out and it would be foolish to trade for AD without him.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/5...n-pelicans-pod
    I share Shamit's view on this report:



    Not only does the report come from Steve Kyler, who is perhaps most famous for being consistently wrong all the time about all kinds of things, but it also contradicts statements to the contrary from barely a week ago from a variety of fairly trustworthy figures like Steve Bulpett who is generally pretty solid on Celtics stuff.

    Honestly, and this is coming from a guy whose first introduction to Pels media was TBW, and who listens to every episode of their podcast, TBW has had a shaky last few weeks. Some decent stuff, but some real bad articles and some kind of vacant podcasting recently.

    Not only that, but it would be very advantageous for every potential trade partner to endorse a narrative surrounding Boston becoming reticent. Boston has one of the best offers that can be made for AD, if not the best offer depending on your view of individual assets. If it were to become accepted that Boston was less interested, it would allow other parties to drop their respective offers somewhat, as the ceiling could arguably be lowered. It would also give Boston some leverage when it comes to negotiations as it would downplay their desperation and make their enquiries look more like courtesy calls than begging.
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 05-31-2019 at 09:46 PM.

  14. #789
    But you didn't answer the whole point of it.....if Kyrie leaves, why WOULD the Celtics trade EVERYTHING for AD?

    I agree with everything you said. I just can't see Boston doing it.

    Where else do you look for insider info? I absolutely will not go to any if the sites associated with MM.

    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    This exactly why I thought waiting for the Celtics was a bad decision. It's been known for a while now that Irving was likely to leave Boston. Without Irving it makes far less sense to gamble on Davis.
    Hahaha.

    Now that the Lakers hit it HUUUUUGE in the lottery we have ti suffer people spouting this nonsense. Even with them having the #4 pick, the supposed Knicks offer seems better. Had we made the trade midseason and the Lakers had not had that amazing lotto jump, the trade would have been awful.

    Just staaaaaaaaaahp.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 05-31-2019 at 10:05 PM.

  15. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    But you didn't answer the whole point of it.....if Kyrie leaves, why WOULD the Celtics trade EVERYTHING for AD?

    I agree with everything you said. I just can't see Boston doing it.



    Hahaha.

    Now that the Lakers hit it HUUUUUGE in the lottery we have ti suffer people spouting this nonsense. Even with them having the #4 pick, the supposed Knicks offer seems better. Had we made the trade midseason and the Lakers had not had that amazing lotto jump, the trade would have been awful.

    Just staaaaaaaaaahp.
    This has been answered like 405030 times on this forum, but I guess here we go ahead.

    Kyrie cannot do anything until the free agency period begins and the moratorium is over.

    Any trade for AD, if it is going to be done this summer, will be at either executed (if Knicks/Clippers/Lakers) or agreed upon in principle (Celtics/Nets) by the end of draft night.

    Therefore the Celtics would be making the AD move before Kyrie leaves.

    Given the rumours (albeit minor) of Durant potentially being interested in Boston, and the fact that we know Kyrie and AD are friends, it's perfectly possible to think that where Kyrie ends up is basically determined by the AD trade. If AD goes to Boston, then Kyrie gets a superstar teammate, the drama between him, Tatum, and Brown is gone, and they're in a brilliant position. If AD goes to NY, then Kyrie will probably end up in NY too, which the Celtics obviously want to avoid: if you can prevent someone forming a superteam in your conference, then that's what you do.

    When you consider that we also had reports from relatively recently (can't remember the exact date) that claimed that Ainge would be willing to move everything for AD even if they believed Kyrie was leaving, it becomes extremely difficult to believe that the Celtics just aren't interested anymore.

    It's possible, but it's not likely. What's more realistic: that the Celtics have just decided to give up on AD after literally years of chasing him, and are content to let Kyrie walk for nothing and built a superteam in their conference, or that the Celtics are trying to temper expectations about their desperation so that they have better negotiating conditions?

  16. #791
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    I don’t think the Celtics losing Kyrie takes them out of the running at all. If anything it could make AD even more important. The Celtics can create some space and go after some of the big names out there. Maybe even a Kemba Walker who isn’t far behind Kyrie imo. If the Celtics make this deal in their minds it’s a 2 year process where they build around what they have now while landing that Star FA this or next off season. Kyrie leaving could hurt the package but imo I don’t think it changes much except some of the plans the Celtics have regarding their future moves.

  17. #792
    LOL. Oh ye of little faith. OF COURSE narratives will break out where Boston is stepping away from the table and NY is looking to trade back in the draft.

    This is all part of what's called negotiating. Would you really expect Boston to leak out, "We totally want to trade for AD and will do everything possible to get him"??? That's not how any of this works.

    Again, even if Boston thought Kyrie was leaving they'd have just as much incentive to get AD to keep him away from the Knicks and teaming up with Kyrie / KD / Both. They don't want a juggernaut in the East much less their own division.

    Boston has two paths, blow it all up or go all in. Either path require them having to trade assets either to clear Hayward, Horford off the books or to get AD. Boston HAS to make a move and it will be much easier for them to go all in than blow it up and start over. Ainge might not even survive another rebuild.

    Everyone is clamoring for leverage here. Griffin too, that is the whole point of him being so focused on bringing AD back. Everything is about leverage, every leak, every rumor from a credible source. Even Rich Paul and AD are clamoring for leverage because a lot of people have huge stakes in this.

    Don't get caught up in the narrative.

  18. #793
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Especially now that the wind is whispering Tatum and the Celtics are leaving the bargaining table. Been waiting for that to happen. We kept hearing Kyrie was out and it would be foolish to trade for AD without him.

    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/5...n-pelicans-pod
    This is TBW jumping on a comment by Steve Kyler (who usually just spitballs). TBW has been very erratic lately and almost sound Fletcher-lite in some of their stories.

  19. #794
    Interesting.



    The Nets deal looking better

  20. #795
    Can someone manage to explain why celtics would want to trade for AD considering their situation, and why we would even want to trade with the celtics when IMO lakers and Knicks offer a lot more value.

    Celtics clearly have a good young core with a proven superstar, in Kyrie, so talent is clearly not the reason why kyrie wants to depart. Obviously theres issues at an organisational level and there are clearly a lot of bridges being burned by kyrie and the celtics affiliates, it isn't hard at to see that. If cletics trade most of this core away for AD, and considering the lack of talent isnt why Kyrie wants to leave, how can you possibly say that Kyrie stays and doesn't sign with another contender where he can have a fresh start and depart away from the toxicity his created at the Celtics.

    So considering this, and considering celtics are very aware of Kyrie mindset, why on earth would they trade their entire core for AD, just for AD to most likely leave and sign with another contender a year later, therefore all of celtics rebuilding phase has been undone almost instantly. I cant believe that some of the people her cannot see this.

    Also, what value do you guys even see in Tatum and Brown. Ive see two decent players, who have not improved their game a single bit in an entire season. Tatum didnt improve a single bit from year 1 to year 2. His fg% dropped, minutes when up and only averaged slightly more then he did due to more minutes and shots, but at a lot less efficacy. He also has no playmaking abilities.

    Ingram on the other hand, had a much better second year, had another leap from second the third year and has a proven passing ability. It is a risk because of his health reasons, but i say its worth taking.

    And overall, i see much more upsize in RJ then tatum, it's hard to completely tell because RJ hasn't played an NBA came, but just looking at college comparisons, for the future, RJ will be better.

    So considering this, i reckon there is a less than a 5% chance a celtics trade gets done, and tbh i would much prefer a trade with the nets, knicks or lakers as both teams will be losing from a celtics / pelicans trade.

  21. #796
    Could also be a smokescreen by Ainge. Might just be everyone is being careful now. Especially with Clippers being hit with fine.
    Last edited by 13 - 3; 06-01-2019 at 12:22 AM.

  22. #797
    I gueeeeeess.

    I don't pretend to know as much inside info as everyone else...so I'm watching the same way I was with GoT.....predicting (as everyone else here is)....just haven't heard mention of KD to Boston. I've hear KD to NY. Kyrie to NY. Kyrie to Brooklyn. Kyrie even to LeBron. Not really anything on him staying. And again, it's not like every move in tbe NBA has foreshadowing, but the tea leaves aren't leaning that way.

    Kyrie is driving way more than you guys realize. He doesn't have to go where AD is traded. He's young. He's fine going to NY and waiting a season for AD to get there. And that way, the new team didn't have to lose assets in a trade. Like he would sign a long term deal to be there when AD is only there one year.....

    And since he is driving this bus a good bit, Boston has to have an inkling of where he is leaning. If he's not giving then indication he is staying......

    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    I don’t think the Celtics losing Kyrie takes them out of the running at all. If anything it could make AD even more important. The Celtics can create some space and go after some of the big names out there. Maybe even a Kemba Walker who isn’t far behind Kyrie imo. If the Celtics make this deal in their minds it’s a 2 year process where they build around what they have now while landing that Star FA this or next off season. Kyrie leaving could hurt the package but imo I don’t think it changes much except some of the plans the Celtics have regarding their future moves.
    Now this I completely disagree with. Boston has a ton of assets to build around Tatum and Brown. AD is not staying for just Kemba. Ainge is too smart to trade away everything in the hopes AD stays just for Kemba.

    And no way dies Kemba get offers from good teams (which he should) and opt to sign a big contract with Boston because AD will be there for one year.

    But then you say it could hurt the package. Which is essentially agreeing. So ok.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-01-2019 at 12:59 AM.

  23. #798
    Hunter will be better than RJ. I don't know where people get the idea that Hunter can't take people off the dribble.

  24. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieZ View Post
    Hunter will be better than RJ. I don't know where people get the idea that Hunter can't take people off the dribble.
    Yea I dont know where people get this idea that his ceiling is a 3 and D player. He's got a great first step (better than RJ) and has potential as a ball handler. I'm alright if people say I dont see him doing x or y effectively in the NBA but to act like a kid with all the physical and athletic tools (arguably more than RJ at an inch taller and a 4 inch longer wingspan). Is somehow stuck as a 3 and D like he's Mikail Bridges is silly to me. Even Bridges might have more upside than that.

  25. #800
    Posturing in this situation seems pointless. If AD goes on the trading block we’ll essentially be running an auction with a reserve if the bids aren’t high enough. Everyone interested will need to submit a bid that is both attractive enough to induce us to part with Davis now and good enough to beat out competing bidders. Feints, disinformation and smoke screens prior to the actual bidding are of limited utility unless it’s an attempt to to decieve rival bidders and depress their initial offers.

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