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Thread: AD trade scenarios...

  1. #651
    No, no no no no no no no no no no no no

    Any trade which starts with ''Oh hey, let's trade Zion'' is an instant no. No.

    Towns does not have anywhere NEAR the upside Zion does. It's a loss the moment it's made. Griffin trading Zion would be a fireable offense imo. You do not, under any circumstances, pass up on the single best prospect since Lebron James. Zion has the ceiling of top 5 all time. Whether he'll reach that ceiling or not is totally up for debate but you do NOT give up on that without even trying in order to take in a fringe all-NBA centre and a promising wing with a ceiling no way near Zion's.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

  2. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by RodyTur10 View Post
    The value of an undisputed #1 pick is at an alltime high around draft night, maybe it's a good idea to capitalize on that?

    How about Karl-Anthony Towns? Just look at this year's numbers (quite amazing):

    Karl-Anthony Towns 24.4 PTS/ 12.4 REB / 3.4 AST / 1.6 BLK, while shooting: 56 (2FG%) / 40 (3FG%) / 84 (FT%) = 62,2 TS%

    Group of players (FGM>8 and TS%>60%): Antetokounmpo, Curry, Durant, Towns, Harden, Leonard
    Group of players (PPG>20, REB>10, BLK>1): Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Davis, Towns, Vucevic
    Group of players (2FG%>52, 3FG%>37, FGA>12): Curry, Bogdanovic, Towns, Irving, Harris, Leonard


    With the failed Butler experience and the stagnation of Wiggins, I'm sure Minnesota knows they aren't contending any time soon. With Zion they create a new window, before they're pushed into the position of having to sell Towns anyway (like Davis). The Pelicans could build around Tatum and Towns, who're both versatile scorers inside and outside, and have potential to get better on defense.

    Idea for a three-way-trade:

    New Orleans Pelicans
    in: Towns, Covington, Tatum, Smart, Williams, Memphis pick
    out: Davis, Hill, #1 pick

    Boston Celtics
    in: Davis
    out: Tatum, Smart, Williams, Yabusele, #20 pick, Memphis pick

    Minnesota Timberwolves
    in: Hill, Yabusele, #1 pick, #20 pick
    out: Towns, Covington

    New Pelicans rotation (you can stay just under the luxury tax):

    PG: Smart, Payton (re-sign), Jackson
    SG: Holiday, Moore, #39 Windler
    SF: Tatum, Covington, K.Williams
    PF: Randle (re-sign), Wood, Diallo
    C: Towns, Okafor, R.Williams
    IF this could happen, I say:YES!!!YES!!!YES!!!

  3. #653
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    IF you were to trade the #1 pick, it would have to be part of locking in AD and another player close to that value for the next 5 years. And youíd also have to get a pretty good young prospect in return.

    If you could guarantee yourself AD, another All NBA level player, and Jrue for the next 5 years, youíd have to consider that vs the potential of having the opportunity to create the same window around Zion. In the abstract itís not unconscionable to consider, but I canít think of a specific player or deal.

  4. #654
    Zion has a greater value than any other individual player right now. That's why he was considered a requirement for an AD deal, before we lucked into having him. This is a superstar's league. The only way you trade Zion is either for another player of equal potential, or for an instant championship core.

    Is KAT and Tatum an instant championship core, in the West? Not even close. I'd be surprised if it got out of the first round in the playoffs. Essentially what I'm saying is that I don't think that team would be necessarily better than the team we rolled out last year, and in fact it would probably be worse because KAT isn't on AD's level as a player.

    Honestly, I'm sticking by what I said. Trading Zion is a fireable offense. The only player I would even CONSIDER trading him for is Giannis, and given that Giannis is on a fairly short deal at this point, even that's contentious.

  5. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    No, no no no no no no no no no no no no

    Any trade which starts with ''Oh hey, let's trade Zion'' is an instant no. No.

    Towns does not have anywhere NEAR the upside Zion does. It's a loss the moment it's made. Griffin trading Zion would be a fireable offense imo. You do not, under any circumstances, pass up on the single best prospect since Lebron James. Zion has the ceiling of top 5 all time. Whether he'll reach that ceiling or not is totally up for debate but you do NOT give up on that without even trying in order to take in a fringe all-NBA centre and a promising wing with a ceiling no way near Zion's.
    Sorry Charlie, but I make that deal without second thought. That team can win it all. Solid starters, GREAT bench, nice cost. LOVE Zion, but he is still a unproven in NBA, Towns and company pluss Memphis pick tooooooooooooooooooooo valuable and offer to pass on for me.

  6. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Sorry Charlie, but I make that deal without second thought. That team can win it all. Solid starters, GREAT bench, nice cost. LOVE Zion, but he is still a unproven in NBA, Towns and company pluss Memphis pick tooooooooooooooooooooo valuable and offer to pass on for me.
    Good for you. That team can't win it all though. That team probably can't win 8 games in the playoffs.

    Edit: also, Charlie? Is that a reference or something?
    Last edited by Pelicanidae; 05-27-2019 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #657

  8. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Zion has a greater value than any other individual player right now. That's why he was considered a requirement for an AD deal, before we lucked into having him. This is a superstar's league. The only way you trade Zion is either for another player of equal potential, or for an instant championship core.

    Is KAT and Tatum an instant championship core, in the West? Not even close. I'd be surprised if it got out of the first round in the playoffs. Essentially what I'm saying is that I don't think that team would be necessarily better than the team we rolled out last year, and in fact it would probably be worse because KAT isn't on AD's level as a player.

    Honestly, I'm sticking by what I said. Trading Zion is a fireable offense. The only player I would even CONSIDER trading him for is Giannis, and given that Giannis is on a fairly short deal at this point, even that's contentious.
    Everyone seemed to think it was a no brainer for a handful of teams that got the #1 pick to trade it for AD. All I’m saying is that if trading the #1 pick allows you to keep AD, acquire another top 10 player (under contract), and a future asset ...that’s something to consider. If you could guarantee an AD extension and any of the following on the team for the next 4 years...

    Giannis
    Harden
    Durant
    George
    Embiid

    Then you have to consider it. You don’t have to do it. But it’s worth considering and the decision isn’t easy. You could build packages around Lillard, Beal, Towns, and Jokic that would also be tempting.

    You could easily create a championship window immediately. In the best case scenario with Zion you hope to be able to accomplish the same thing only later, what you could accomplish today by trading the pick.

  9. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Everyone seemed to think it was a no brainer for a handful of teams that got the #1 pick to trade it for AD. All I’m saying is that if trading the #1 pick allows you to keep AD, acquire another top 10 player (under contract), and a future asset ...that’s something to consider. If you could guarantee an AD extension and any of the following on the team for the next 4 years...

    Giannis
    Harden
    Durant
    George
    Embiid

    Then you have to consider it. You don’t have to do it. But it’s worth considering and the decision isn’t easy. You could build packages around Lillard, Beal, Towns, and Jokic that would also be tempting.

    You could easily create a championship window immediately. In the best case scenario with Zion you hope to be able to accomplish the same thing only later, what you could accomplish today by trading the pick.
    In acquiring Zion, you open not just future championship material, but the ability to create a narrative around the franchise, a reputation, and a recipe for continued success over time. Bailing on that future to rush into a win now scenario where you trade your assets to attempt to cobble together a superteam is pretty much what Griffin did in Cleveland, and while it gave them a lot of success for a short period of time, it also destroyed the future of the team, dumped them back into ignominy as soon as that era was over, ruined their cap space, and has given them no reputation or promise of future success as a result. It was burning everything to win now. This is precisely the formula that Griff has said multiple times that he is NOT in favour of following here, and I agree with that completely.

    My priority is a Pels team which can build in a sustainable way so that we can (in a best case scenario) have a Spurs-lite franchise that makes the playoffs every year for a decade, and wins chips naturally as the team grows. I am totally against throwing away our best hope for that in Zion in the attempt to cram in a championship next year or the year after with no realistic avenue towards that long term success.

    I agree that you have to consider it. But I've considered it before: the idea of trading Zion is one that came up basically the same day we GOT Zion, it's not like this is novel. The idea has been considered, and I have rejected it as something I'd be interested in.

    Delayed gratification. That's a term that a lot of people could do with becoming familiar with.

  10. #660
    No way you trade the rights to draft Zion Williamson. He’s the most hyped player to come out since LeBron James IMO. AD wasn’t even seen in the same light as Zion IMO. He’s got the athleticism & body of LeBron coming out of college. You don’t see 18-19 year old kids with the body & athleticism this guy has coming out of college. Even AD was a skinny kid coming into the league. This guy is a once in a lifetime prospect that can change your organization over night. He should attract players to want to come here.

    It’s hard to trade away AD, but at least he didn’t string us along and end up leaving for nothing. We should get a ransom for him. Add that package with Zion & Jrue and we should have a team that can compete for a playoff spot as soon as next year. Unless they go with a trade to the Knicks, but they would be my last destination for AD. To me right now I got Brooklyn, then the Lakers, then Boston, and then New York.

    Brooklyn: Russell, LeVert, Allen, Harris, and the players picked at 17 & 27
    Lakers: Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart, Hunter, and a future 1st round pick
    Boston: Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier, Williams, & picks 14, 20, & 22.
    Knicks: Barrett, Robinson, Knox, Smith Jr, and a ton of picks

    I want at least 2 players with current star potential, a couple good role players, and two or more rookies/picks.

  11. #661
    Basically trade Zion for KAT? Wut? Burn that idea with fire.

  12. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Basically trade Zion for KAT? Wut? Burn that idea with fire.
    To be generous, it's KAT and Tatum.


    Still a hard no.

  13. #663
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JJackisangry's Avatar
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    People are infatuated with trading Zion because of the Raptors success. Remember this- we play in the West. If AD doesnít extend his deal, you do not even consider parting ways with Zion. You shouldnít regardless of whether he stays or not. You are essentially saying ďI wanna be mediocre for the next 3 years k thx.Ē You donít want to be stuck in purgatory. You want to build a championship roster.

  14. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    People are infatuated with trading Zion because of the Raptors success. Remember this- we play in the West. If AD doesn’t extend his deal, you do not even consider parting ways with Zion. You shouldn’t regardless of whether he stays or not. You are essentially saying “I wanna be mediocre for the next 3 years k thx.” You don’t want to be stuck in purgatory. You want to build a championship roster.
    That still doesn't make sense though, because we're nothing like the Raptors. The Raptors already had a conference finals level team in place, they just upgraded from Derozan to Kawhi, essentially. Kawhi, who is a proven all-world, top 5 player.

    We don't have anything like a proven roster like that in place, and neither KAT nor Tatum are even close to top 5 players: in fact, we're not the Raptors in this scenario, we're the Spurs at best, giving up the top 5 player for a lesser return.

    People are infatuated with trading Zion because it's exciting and they want exciting things to keep happening, and a trading Zion NOW is more exciting in the short term than waiting to watch him play in October, and people have no patience. Also, they're used to a franchise that bails on first round picks, so there's that expectation already in the air.

  15. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That still doesn't make sense though, because we're nothing like the Raptors. The Raptors already had a conference finals level team in place, they just upgraded from Derozan to Kawhi, essentially. Kawhi, who is a proven all-world, top 5 player.

    We don't have anything like a proven roster like that in place, and neither KAT nor Tatum are even close to top 5 players: in fact, we're not the Raptors in this scenario, we're the Spurs at best, giving up the top 5 player for a lesser return.

    People are infatuated with trading Zion because it's exciting and they want exciting things to keep happening, and a trading Zion NOW is more exciting in the short term than waiting to watch him play in October, and people have no patience. Also, they're used to a franchise that bails on first round picks, so there's that expectation already in the air.
    Thatís what I mean. Unless you are close, why pull the trigger, especially in the Western fn conference? Iím probably being a party pooper, and I apologize everyone, but I canít think of many ways this will be beneficial to us. To top it all off, people want to trade Zion AND AD for KAT and Tatum. Not just Zion. Not just AD. But both.

  16. #666
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    I’m not in favor of trading Zion, and certainly not the trade above that had us shipping out Zion AND Davis. I just don’t think it’s a completely ludicrous idea if you could trade Zion for let’s say... Paul George and a pick... and by doing so AD agrees to sign his max. Why wouldn’t we consider doing that?? We’d be legit championship contenders and our best player(s) would be under contract in their prime while competing for the title.

    We’re 4 years away from needing to put a championship team around Zion in order to convince him to commit long term. The window in the modem NBA is always going to be short. If you don’t win a championship, you still have a 29/30 year old AD to trade and start a rebuild. If you have good management, the rebuild is short and you’re a borderline playoff team.

    Again, not saying I’d necessarily trade Zion, but I’m not saying without hesitation I wouldn’t!

  17. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    That’s what I mean. Unless you are close, why pull the trigger, especially in the Western fn conference? I’m probably being a party pooper, and I apologize everyone, but I can’t think of many ways this will be beneficial to us. To top it all off, people want to trade Zion AND AD for KAT and Tatum. Not just Zion. Not just AD. But both.
    Yeah, I get what you mean. It's kind of bonkers. I totally agree with you thought: they only possible reason to make that trade is if you don't want to win ever, and you just want maximum roster turnover from the AD trade. It's really absurd, and not only does it fail to guarantee short term success (because KAT is not actually that great* and Tatum isn't there yet either) but it pretty much promises long term failure because you give up the single best key to generational success at the same time.

    *I'm not saying that KAT isn't very good: he is. He has a few huge flaws in his game, but those don't mean he's terrible. But in today's game, very few bigs can actually have a serious impact on a team's future, especially in the playoffs. Those bigs are essentially AD, Jokic, and Embiid. That's about it.

  18. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    I’m not in favor of trading Zion, and certainly not the trade above that had us shipping out Zion AND Davis. I just don’t think it’s a completely ludicrous idea if you could trade Zion for let’s say... Paul George and a pick... and by doing so AD agrees to sign his max. Why wouldn’t we consider doing that?? We’d be legit championship contenders and our best player(s) would be under contract in their prime while competing for the title.

    We’re 4 years away from needing to put a championship team around Zion in order to convince him to commit long term. The window in the modem NBA is always going to be short. If you don’t win a championship, you still have a 29/30 year old AD to trade and start a rebuild. If you have good management, the rebuild is short and you’re a borderline playoff team.

    Again, not saying I’d necessarily trade Zion, but I’m not saying without hesitation I wouldn’t!
    I’d agree if we were close enough. Since we aren’t (at least imo), I’m in favor of a rebuild.

  19. #669
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    I think it’s important to point out the NBA is the most global of the American sports leagues. Jordan, Kobe, LeBron sell merchandise across the entire planet. Been in African and Asian remote places and the people there know Kobe and have never heard of Tom Brady. Zion has that type of potential. So if a trade is to be made (not realistic imo) it has to also work for the business.

  20. #670
    Looks like the Nets could be a player in the AD trade sweepstakes?



  21. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Primetime View Post
    I think it’s important to point out the NBA is the most global of the American sports leagues. Jordan, Kobe, LeBron sell merchandise across the entire planet. Been in African and Asian remote places and the people there know Kobe and have never heard of Tom Brady. Zion has that type of potential. So if a trade is to be made (not realistic imo) it has to also work for the business.
    That's true. Zion's gonna have one of the league's top selling jerseys in his rookie year. He's going to be a rookie all-star, just off the hype (probably). KAT doesn't have that power, and in the West, neither does Tatum. There are very few players who do.

  22. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochican View Post
    Looks like the Nets could be a player in the AD trade sweepstakes?


    Don't think the Nets have the assets. They only have their own picks, which won't be that good in the future based on their current rebuild success + AD. They can't use D'Angelo Russell because he's a free agent, so it would have to be a sign and trade which makes everything ten times harder. They have a few good young players, but not a bunch, and they don't own any other team's picks.

  23. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    To be generous, it's KAT and Tatum.


    Still a hard no.
    AD was moved to Boston so if we wanted to say that it'd be AD + Zion for KAT and Tatum with filler.

    Still no.

  24. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodyTur10 View Post
    The value of an undisputed #1 pick is at an alltime high around draft night, maybe it's a good idea to capitalize on that?

    How about Karl-Anthony Towns? Just look at this year's numbers (quite amazing):

    Karl-Anthony Towns 24.4 PTS/ 12.4 REB / 3.4 AST / 1.6 BLK, while shooting: 56 (2FG%) / 40 (3FG%) / 84 (FT%) = 62,2 TS%

    Group of players (FGM>8 and TS%>60%): Antetokounmpo, Curry, Durant, Towns, Harden, Leonard
    Group of players (PPG>20, REB>10, BLK>1): Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Davis, Towns, Vucevic
    Group of players (2FG%>52, 3FG%>37, FGA>12): Curry, Bogdanovic, Towns, Irving, Harris, Leonard


    With the failed Butler experience and the stagnation of Wiggins, I'm sure Minnesota knows they aren't contending any time soon. With Zion they create a new window, before they're pushed into the position of having to sell Towns anyway (like Davis). The Pelicans could build around Tatum and Towns, who're both versatile scorers inside and outside, and have potential to get better on defense.

    Idea for a three-way-trade:

    New Orleans Pelicans
    in: Towns, Covington, Tatum, Smart, Williams, Memphis pick
    out: Davis, Hill, #1 pick

    Boston Celtics
    in: Davis
    out: Tatum, Smart, Williams, Yabusele, #20 pick, Memphis pick

    Minnesota Timberwolves
    in: Hill, Yabusele, #1 pick, #20 pick
    out: Towns, Covington

    New Pelicans rotation (you can stay just under the luxury tax):

    PG: Smart, Payton (re-sign), Jackson
    SG: Holiday, Moore, #39 Windler
    SF: Tatum, Covington, K.Williams
    PF: Randle (re-sign), Wood, Diallo
    C: Towns, Okafor, R.Williams
    You want to trade two 1st ballot hall of famers for Towns and scraps

    Get out.gif

  25. #675
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoochican View Post
    Looks like the Nets could be a player in the AD trade sweepstakes?


    Without Russell, they do not have any assets worth making a deal for.

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