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Thread: AD trade scenarios...

  1. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    No, a competitve 28yr old all-star (29 in June). that has never sniffed being a contender is NOT on a team to instill a culture. He is there to win.
    You are taking the position of the organization & it is quite myopic. Jrue will have Zero problem instilling a culture, but thats not his overarching goal. His goal is to WIN !
    Im not aware of 33-34-35 being solid years.
    That is Jrue's decision. He already made his claim that he is excited. So, stop putting words in Jrue's mouth and let the man decide. Andre Iguodala is still a big contributor at 35. A 100% youth movement is a risky gamble. There needs to be balance. If Jrue wants to be that person. Let him be.

  2. #427
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Interesting that he puts the odds of an AD to Boston trade at less than 50/50.

  3. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    I think you may have some salary problems.
    I didn't go into the intricacies of making it work from the Lakers side but the basic outline of the trade from a cap perspective is fine. I think they could do so by manipulating Alex Caruso's contract among a few other things. The trade works from every other teams perspective.

  4. #429
    Hope Nets jump in to stoke the bidding, but I'm not sure Allen, or Mitchell Robinson for that matter, fits what the Pels want at center, which is a big who can shoot in the manner of a Gasol, Lopez or Vucevic. I'm not sure that's a deal breaker, as I love an aggressive rim defender to anchor our defense even if they have offensive limitations. But early indications are that Griffin values shooting ability at all positions and the Pels are already a little short on that capability.

  5. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertM320 View Post
    Its simple. If AD asks for that, then he's not 100% in and you trade him. Asking the franchise to throw out a chance at long term sustainable success in favor of a championship run this season would be unreasonable.
    Agree. Griffin and Langdon have both been clear about building the right culture and not rushing things the way Demps tried to do. If Davis wants the organization to make moves to accommodate his immediate timeline, then you trade him for sure. My worry is that they'll try to split the baby and get Davis to agree to opt into the final year of his current deal giving the Pels a one-season window to convince him to sign longterm or trade him next summer with a year left on his deal. To me either Davis agrees to sign a max deal now, or you trade him, no in-between measures. Personally, as good as Davis is, I'd be wary of giving him a max deal given his track record and the financial limitations it would put on Griffin's ability to build a complete roster. I think I'd rather just move on and start anew with Zion + assets, though that's the less certain path.

  6. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by new city champ View Post
    Agree. Griffin and Langdon have both been clear about building the right culture and not rushing things the way Demps tried to do. If Davis wants the organization to make moves to accommodate his immediate timeline, then you trade him for sure. My worry is that they'll try to split the baby and get Davis to agree to opt into the final year of his current deal giving the Pels a one-season window to convince him to sign longterm or trade him next summer with a year left on his deal. To me either Davis agrees to sign a max deal now, or you trade him, no in-between measures. Personally, as good as Davis is, I'd be wary of giving him a max deal given his track record and the financial limitations it would put on Griffin's ability to build a complete roster. I think I'd rather just move on and start anew with Zion + assets, though that's the less certain path.
    I get why they would give Davis a super max contract, but I wouldn't. It's way too much of the cap for a guy that deals with consistent health concerns yearly and you don't look at him as a guy that will guarantee a team the 8 spot so long as he's on the team.

    I'm fine with us saying we want to keep him, but really I'm just hoping were trying to keep his trade value intact.

  7. #432
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Tinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelafanatic View Post
    I didn't go into the intricacies of making it work from the Lakers side but the basic outline of the trade from a cap perspective is fine. I think they could do so by manipulating Alex Caruso's contract among a few other things. The trade works from every other teams perspective.
    Well, if it works $ in/out. I'm in.

  8. #433
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Tinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    That is Jrue's decision. He already made his claim that he is excited. So, stop putting words in Jrue's mouth and let the man decide. Andre Iguodala is still a big contributor at 35. A 100% youth movement is a risky gamble. There needs to be balance. If Jrue wants to be that person. Let him be.
    Oh Gracious, another one? I never said Jrue said anything. Nice mechanism, but been used before. All I said was -If your gonna go full youth, trade Jrue for more 1st Rd picks &/or specialty players. If you take a Boston deal or a deal that brings Tatum or Brown or Smart or Ingram , then Jrue will fit nicely with a team that will compete immediately.
    But you just need to stop with the made-up narratives. Tedious!

  9. #434
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I get why they would give Davis a super max contract, but I wouldn't. It's way too much of the cap for a guy that deals with consistent health concerns yearly and you don't look at him as a guy that will guarantee a team the 8 spot so long as he's on the team.

    I'm fine with us saying we want to keep him, but really I'm just hoping were trying to keep his trade value intact.
    I would not say he has consistent health concerns. He has played 75 games the 2 years previous to this year (when he was shut down at the end of the season). In today's NBA, that is probably closer to the norm for the stars.

  10. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I would not say he has consistent health concerns. He has played 75 games the 2 years previous to this year (when he was shut down at the end of the season). In today's NBA, that is probably closer to the norm for the stars.
    Hopefully Silver is serious about looking into reducing the regular season. 12 regular season games is not going to make or break a season. But ending back to back or even worse 3 games in 4 nights has to be a priority.

  11. #436
    So Devil's advocate. What would it take for you to say yes to Los Angeles? A commitment from Lonzo? A clean bill of health for Ingram?

  12. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinDavis1022 View Post
    So Devil's advocate. What would it take for you to say yes to Los Angeles? A commitment from Lonzo? A clean bill of health for Ingram?
    I would need a clean bill of health for Ingram and a place to flip Lonzo. Its pretty clear from Griffin and Langdon's statements today that they're trying to build a certain atmosphere here. And the Ball family just does not fit. I like Lonzo's potential, but on-court ability is not always as valuable as mentality, leadership, and effort. They want guys that are going to buy in.

    The length of Ingram is so intriguing to me next to Jrue and Zion. His offensive game is extremely underrated as well. Ingram and Giannis' age 21 seasons are incredibly similar, and Ingram clearly has a higher ceiling shooting-wise. I'm not trying to say that Ingram will ever be close to as good as Giannis, but people seem to ignore the fact that he's 21 years old and has improved every season, despite playing in an extremely poor environment.

    The 4th pick will produce a very good player whether it be Garland, Culver, or a dark-horse. We've seen guys like Dame and Brad Beal skyrocket up draft boards with great workouts, so I expect that will happen as we get closer to the draft and that 4th pick will have more value than is perceived right now.

    Again, the dream is coming out of this thing with Ja and Ingram, but we'll see if that is possible.

  13. #438
    My only issue is that I just don't see Memphis giving up the 2nd pick.

  14. #439
    The Franchise
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    I still like Celtics deal along with a trade for Beal. It would put all our players on different time lines. You try to put a good team together for a playoff run. If it doesn’t work next year trade Beal and or Tatum for early picks. You should get good value since they have a year left on their contracts at good value. If you go total youth movement then trade Jrue next year plus he’d have 2 years left on his good contract.

    Next year is suppose to be a good year for PGs so if we can’t get Ja just be ready for next year. I’d think Zion and Culver would be good this year and then next year if we underachieve trade Jrue for high first and grab 2 really good players with our pick and what we get for Jrue.

  15. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinDavis1022 View Post
    So Devil's advocate. What would it take for you to say yes to Los Angeles? A commitment from Lonzo? A clean bill of health for Ingram?
    Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, the #4, 4 additional 1st along with pick swap rights for the ones in between.

    No I'm not joking. That is how little I value the Lakers assets.

  16. #441
    Can somebody actually point to me to something, other than points per game, that Ingram has improved at consistently in his 3 years in the league?

    Cause I've seen a few people now saying that he's consistently improved every year, and it's just not true at all. It's not represented by any stats. His defense hasn't improved significantly, and may have taken a step back since year two. His three point shooting is significantly worse this year than last. His FT% is down. His net rating has gone from a negative, to an even worse negative. His PER has dropped, and it was below average to begin with. His VORP is a negative, and that's down from last year where it was a negative. His WS/48 are down, and they've taken that fall from less than .100 to begin with, which is already poor.

    His rebounding numbers are down, his assists per game are down despite having the same number of turnovers, his fouls per game are up (albeit only slightly) and he's averaging less blocks and steals now than last year. Where is the improvement?

    I get that he had a cool handful of games after the trade deadline last season. I get that. But that's not the same as ''consistently improving'' every year. That's having a hot streak.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

    Paying attention to the next draft too early.

  17. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, the #4, 4 additional 1st along with pick swap rights for the ones in between.

    No I'm not joking. That is how little I value the Lakers assets.
    About the same. And even that might not cut it depending on what other teams offer.

  18. #443
    I forgot to add that they had to take Hill back toom

  19. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, the #4, 4 additional 1st along with pick swap rights for the ones in between.

    No I'm not joking. That is how little I value the Lakers assets.
    2-1st is good but all the players need to be moved. Ship ball and kuzma to Chicago or Phoenix for their pick and maybe a player like Bridges or Dunn. Ship Ingram and a first to maybe Washington for Beal or Indy for one of their bigs and Aaron holiday.

  20. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinDavis1022 View Post
    So Devil's advocate. What would it take for you to say yes to Los Angeles? A commitment from Lonzo? A clean bill of health for Ingram?
    I don't mind Ingram being in the deal if he is healthy, but I really want no part of the Ball sideshow. I am pretty much in the same boat as Mythrol. The Lakers' assets don't excite me at all and it certainly wouldn't be enough of a package for one of the best players in the NBA. So to answer your question, the only way I can see moving AD to LA would be if LA prearranged deals acquiring players and picks that I would want.

  21. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by tdcreator View Post
    2-1st is good but all the players need to be moved. Ship ball and kuzma to Chicago or Phoenix for their pick and maybe a player like Bridges or Dunn. Ship Ingram and a first to maybe Washington for Beal or Indy for one of their bigs and Aaron holiday.
    I disagree, if all the players have to be moved because we value them so little that in and of itself tells me that we need 4 1sts plus pick swap rights.

  22. #447
    Hollygrove 4 Life DroopyDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Kuzma, Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, the #4, 4 additional 1st along with pick swap rights for the ones in between.

    No I'm not joking. That is how little I value the Lakers assets.
    I’d even see if they can send lonzo to the suns for the #6. That would be Kuz, BI, Hart, the #4, #6 and 2 extra ones. And they’d have to take Hill too if that works with the cap.

    They’re desperate enough to do it now that Magic spilled all the beans.

  23. #448
    In my opinion, and maybe this is my own wishful thinking, but Griffen just announced to teams a part of what it would take to land Davis: Ja Morant. He went out of his way to say they met with both Zion and Ja but did not mention RJ Barrett or anyone else. I think they really do want to keep AD but if they trade him I think ideally Griffen prefers a package that includes Morant.

    I also think Grizzlies put themselves into the trade conversation last week when they announced they were taking Morant. It says to the Knicks that they can’t sit back and hope Morant falls to them to use ina trade to land AD. It said to the Lakers make some moves and let’s talk. I think it will be AD and Zion or it’ll be Zion and Ja.

  24. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by 60minutes View Post
    In my opinion, and maybe this is my own wishful thinking, but Griffen just announced to teams a part of what it would take to land Davis: Ja Morant. He went out of his way to say they met with both Zion and Ja but did not mention RJ Barrett or anyone else. I think they really do want to keep AD but if they trade him I think ideally Griffen prefers a package that includes Morant.

    I also think Grizzlies put themselves into the trade conversation last week when they announced they were taking Morant. It says to the Knicks that they can’t sit back and hope Morant falls to them to use ina trade to land AD. It said to the Lakers make some moves and let’s talk. I think it will be AD and Zion or it’ll be Zion and Ja.
    Grizzlies haven't put themselves in the trade conversation. They said they're taking Morant, and I believe that the reason for that is because they want Ja Morant. They're in a rebuild too, they don't attract free agents, and they just drafted a future big in Jaren Jackson. It makes sense they want a dynamic PG to go with him as Conley ages out.

  25. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by DroopyDawg View Post
    I’d even see if they can send lonzo to the suns for the #6. That would be Kuz, BI, Hart, the #4, #6 and 2 extra ones. And they’d have to take Hill too if that works with the cap.

    They’re desperate enough to do it now that Magic spilled all the beans.
    The point behind wanting more than 2 additional 1st from them is so that we get 1sts after Lebron is gone. That's why I'd want at a minimum 3 additional picks because I want some that go into like 2023 and beyond. The 1st with Lebron and AD there aren't going to be worth a lot or shouldn't, but those after he retires has a chance of being top notch.

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