For Tankers viewing pleasure.

[Bee-Fense]

The past few days I have been thinking of a Boston trade without Tatum and I still think it could end up being the best haul if replacing Tatum with Brown would make Boston more willing to give up other assets. For example, I'm thinking of the following trade:

New Orleans Receives:
Jaylen Brown
Marcus Smart
Al Horford
Robert Williams
2019 1st round pick from Sacramento Kings
2019 1st round pick from Boston Celtics (or Clippers, whichever is better)
2019 1st round pick from Memphis (or to be conveyed later)
2021 1st round pick from Boston Celtics

Boston Receives:
Anthony Davis
Solomon Hill
E'twaun Moore

The idea to add Al Horford into the trade is really appealing to me because I think he would be the perfect glue player, cultural leader and the ideal fit next to Julius Randle. Yes, he is a bit older but he's still incredibly productive and probably can be for another 3 years. I think we could be a playoff contender immediately with that team while not compromising our future since we'll own so many 1st round picks. And importantly to me, this is a team I would love to watch and I would be proud of. We could be a defensive juggernaut with the following lineup:

Jrue Holiday
Marcus Smart
Jaylen Brown
Julius Randle
Al Horford

4 out of the 5 players would be great - elite defenders with only Randle being a weak defender. But surrounded by that group of players that all buy in defensively? Maybe Julius' athletic ability combined with that could turn him into at least a neutral defender. And while nobody in this starting lineup is a deadeye from 3, everyone is a threat from 3 and can also get up and down the court with the best of them. Every player is capable of grabbing the board and pushing it up the court to help us get into our offense - I think that's very valuable in today's NBA.

Then we can add 3 rookies (maybe 4 if Memphis is #9 this year) to fill out the bench and give us more upside in the future. Imagine if our picks are #8, #14 and #20 (as it stands now). We could add a player like Romeo Langford and have him be a good scorer off the bench and let him develop at his own pace instead of rushing a rookie to be our savior. Brandon Clarke could be a versatile big man we bring off the bench to add to the defensive culture. And maybe we take a swing at someone like Bol Bol if he's still there at #20 or another boom or bust prospect. I think having a strong culture set in by leaders such as Jrue, Horford, Smart and even Jaylen Brown would give us a stronger chance of having good returns on our draft picks. Hoping for the draft picks to implement the culture for us is going to be asking too much of dudes that are 19-22 years old. Combine the fact we could end up with three 1st round picks in 2021, or we could get lucky and jump to the top 4 in the lottery, think we could be set with great flexibility in the future while being a competitive team immediately.

If Jaylen Brown breaks out with a bigger role, the future could be really bright. Tatum is clearly the better prospect between the two and I'd rather him, but if choosing Brown could give us an extra 1st rounder + Horford I think I might go for that. Jaylen Brown is still really good with room to grow.

Thoughts on this trade package compared to the ones with Tatum?

[PELICANSFAN]

The past few days I have been thinking of a Boston trade without Tatum and I still think it could end up being the best haul if replacing Tatum with Brown would make Boston more willing to give up other assets. For example, I'm thinking of the following trade:

New Orleans Receives:
Jaylen Brown
Marcus Smart
Al Horford
Robert Williams
2019 1st round pick from Sacramento Kings
2019 1st round pick from Boston Celtics (or Clippers, whichever is better)
2019 1st round pick from Memphis (or to be conveyed later)
2021 1st round pick from Boston Celtics

Boston Receives:
Anthony Davis
Solomon Hill
E'twaun Moore

The idea to add Al Horford into the trade is really appealing to me because I think he would be the perfect glue player, cultural leader and the ideal fit next to Julius Randle. Yes, he is a bit older but he's still incredibly productive and probably can be for another 3 years. I think we could be a playoff contender immediately with that team while not compromising our future since we'll own so many 1st round picks. And importantly to me, this is a team I would love to watch and I would be proud of. We could be a defensive juggernaut with the following lineup:

Jrue Holiday
Marcus Smart
Jaylen Brown
Julius Randle
Al Horford

4 out of the 5 players would be great - elite defenders with only Randle being a weak defender. But surrounded by that group of players that all buy in defensively? Maybe Julius' athletic ability combined with that could turn him into at least a neutral defender. And while nobody in this starting lineup is a deadeye from 3, everyone is a threat from 3 and can also get up and down the court with the best of them. Every player is capable of grabbing the board and pushing it up the court to help us get into our offense - I think that's very valuable in today's NBA.

Then we can add 3 rookies (maybe 4 if Memphis is #9 this year) to fill out the bench and give us more upside in the future. Imagine if our picks are #8, #14 and #20 (as it stands now). We could add a player like Romeo Langford and have him be a good scorer off the bench and let him develop at his own pace instead of rushing a rookie to be our savior. Brandon Clarke could be a versatile big man we bring off the bench to add to the defensive culture. And maybe we take a swing at someone like Bol Bol if he's still there at #20 or another boom or bust prospect. I think having a strong culture set in by leaders such as Jrue, Horford, Smart and even Jaylen Brown would give us a stronger chance of having good returns on our draft picks. Hoping for the draft picks to implement the culture for us is going to be asking too much of dudes that are 19-22 years old. Combine the fact we could end up with three 1st round picks in 2021, or we could get lucky and jump to the top 4 in the lottery, think we could be set with great flexibility in the future while being a competitive team immediately.

If Jaylen Brown breaks out with a bigger role, the future could be really bright. Tatum is clearly the better prospect between the two and I'd rather him, but if choosing Brown could give us an extra 1st rounder + Horford I think I might go for that. Jaylen Brown is still really good with room to grow.

Thoughts on this trade package compared to the ones with Tatum?

Brown is due for an extension even a year earlier than Tatum and to me has a lower ceiling. I would take him in a deal with Tatum, but not instead of Tatum.

[Mythrol]

Brown is due for an extension even a year earlier than Tatum and to me has a lower ceiling. I would take him in a deal with Tatum, but not instead of Tatum.

Right. This is where I'm at. I would take a deal with Brown AND Tatum but there is no deal Boston could offer where I'd take Brown INSTEAD of Tatum. That extra year on the rookie contract is extremely important.

[Bee-Fense]

Brown is due for an extension even a year earlier than Tatum and to me has a lower ceiling. I would take him in a deal with Tatum, but not instead of Tatum.

So is Tatum > Brown + Horford + possible extra 1st round pick?

I would rather Tatum over Brown, but how much better is Tatum to Brown? His talent is obvious, but how much does he contribute to winning basketball? Is Tatum more Melo than he is PG13? I'm not sure what his ceiling is and if he's worth giving up on other possible assets. If posed with this question during last year's playoffs, I would have done anything to get Tatum. But now? It's not so obvious Tatum will be the star he was projected to become last year. It'll be interesting to see what Tatum can do in the playoffs and if he looks better under pressure. For what it's worth, both players averaged 18PPG in last year's playoffs. Brown is often given the defensive specialist label but it doesn't mean he can't become a solid 20PPG player given the opportunity.

Also, how important is that extra year on the rookie deal? If we are given the extra year with Tatum's rookie contract, do you think we could actually use that cap space to sign a productive player at a good price? Historically it seems we have to overpay to get good players and we suffer the consequences of that later. It's a nice bonus but not a deal-breaker to me.

Lastly, what if Boston is just insistent on keeping Tatum? Would the Brown trade I proposed be good enough to beat any other trade except for ones that deal Zion? To me it does unless we plan to go full rebuild mode which I don't think would be a better alternative to this one.

I bring this up because I have the feeling we won't get Tatum or Zion and I think this might be more realistic. And for what it's worth, Brown has played really well for the past 2 months and some Boston fans say even better than Tatum (Bill Simmons). Obviously it'd be great if we could land Tatum + Brown + Horford while dumping Hill and Moore, but we have to be realistic about AD's value. It's sky high but not infinite.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

So is Tatum > Brown + Horford + possible extra 1st round pick?

I would rather Tatum over Brown, but how much better is Tatum to Brown? His talent is obvious, but how much does he contribute to winning basketball? Is Tatum more Melo than he is PG13? I'm not sure what his ceiling is and if he's worth giving up on other possible assets. If posed with this question during last year's playoffs, I would have done anything to get Tatum. But now? It's not so obvious Tatum will be the star he was projected to become last year. It'll be interesting to see what Tatum can do in the playoffs and if he looks better under pressure. For what it's worth, both players averaged 18PPG in last year's playoffs. Brown is often given the defensive specialist label but it doesn't mean he can't become a solid 20PPG player given the opportunity.

Also, how important is that extra year on the rookie deal? If we are given the extra year with Tatum's rookie contract, do you think we could actually use that cap space to sign a productive player at a good price? Historically it seems we have to overpay to get good players and we suffer the consequences of that later. It's a nice bonus but not a deal-breaker to me.

Lastly, what if Boston is just insistent on keeping Tatum? Would the Brown trade I proposed be good enough to beat any other trade except for ones that deal Zion? To me it does unless we plan to go full rebuild mode which I don't think would be a better alternative to this one.

I bring this up because I have the feeling we won't get Tatum or Zion and I think this might be more realistic. And for what it's worth, Brown has played really well for the past 2 months and some Boston fans say even better than Tatum (Bill Simmons). Obviously it'd be great if we could land Tatum + Brown + Horford while dumping Hill and Moore, but we have to be realistic about AD's value. It's sky high but not infinite.

You do realise Horford has a player option?
One he won't pick up to come here.

[Bee-Fense]

You do realise Horford has a player option?
One he won't pick up to come here.

You really think he'd decline $30 million? There's no way.

I'm aware he has the option and I would assume there would be an agreement by Horford to opt in or sign and trade for a new contract if he were to be traded here. Otherwise the deal is moot. But I'd be stunned if he declines $30 million

[ml wave]

You really think he'd decline $30 million? There's no way.

I'm aware he has the option and I would assume there would be an agreement by Horford to opt in or sign and trade for a new contract if he were to be traded here. Otherwise the deal is moot. But I'd be stunned if he declines $30 million

He won't look at it like a one year deal, he'll decline 1yr/30MM for something like 4ys/70MM.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

He won't look at it like a one year deal, he'll decline 1yr/30MM for something like 4ys/70MM.

Thanks...

[msusousaphone]

Holy bballs!

I was forlornly moping around these past few months so I have not been looking at future tank games......but this is HEATING UP! Could be super exciting with who MEM and DAL play in these last games. We really seem like the inside runner to get #6 lottery position.

[Pelicanidae]

Holy bballs!

I was forlornly moping around these past few months so I have not been looking at future tank games......but this is HEATING UP! Could be super exciting with who MEM and DAL play in these last games. We really seem like the inside runner to get #6 lottery position.

Tinman said the other day that if we lose out, we're pretty much guaranteed #7. I'm not entirely sure how true that is, I haven't checked, but it sounds plausible. In that case, #6 should be possible if some dice come up our way.

[Tinman]

Tinman said the other day that if we lose out, we're pretty much guaranteed #7. I'm not entirely sure how true that is, I haven't checked, but it sounds plausible. In that case, #6 should be possible if some dice come up our way.

Im going to have to research a clarification on TIEBreakers regarding Lottery positions.
I have read one sight that states that if teams have the same record, then its Ping Ping Balls that decide the say 6th, 7th & 8th spot.
Ive also seen a website that stated that there is no tiebreaker & whichever teams are tied, those 2 teams are awarded equal amounts of the total number of the seeds in question.
I can NOT find the actual info on NBA site.
If anyone can locate the EXACT TieBreaking solution along with the source, it would be great.

[ml wave]

Im going to have to research a clarification on TIEBreakers regarding Lottery positions.
I have read one sight that states that if teams have the same record, then its Ping Ping Balls that decide the say 6th, 7th & 8th spot.
Ive also seen a website that stated that there is no tiebreaker & whichever teams are tied, those 2 teams are awarded equal amounts of the total number of the seeds in question.
I can NOT find the actual info on NBA site.
If anyone can locate the EXACT TieBreaking solution along with the source, it would be great.

I don't have a source but the second site is correct, they split the ping pong balls. If they tie for spots that have 10% and 8% of the possible combinations, then they both end up with 9%.

[Mythrol]

On tankathon they show all tied teams as splitting the number of pingpong balls.

[Tinman]

On tankathon they show all tied teams as splitting the number of pingpong balls.

There's a better than 50-50 that 4 teams have same record. That would be different.

[Tinman]

On tankathon they show all tied teams as splitting the number of pingpong balls.

Hey Myth or Puddle Jumper or anyone- Say there is a 4 way tie 6,7,8,9 ! What does that mean for Memphis/Boston Top 8 protected?

[Pelicanidae]

Just want to point out that Dallas has just thrashed Philadelphia by basically 20 points.

[Tinman]

Just want to point out that Dallas has just thrashed Philadelphia by basically 20 points.

Yeah, so answer my question!

[Pelicanidae]

Yeah, so answer my question!

My answer is that I have no idea.

[Tinman]

My answer is that I have no idea.

Well, we agree!

[msusousaphone]

Dallas plays the TWolves, Memphis twice, the Suns, and then the struggling Spurs. We really should vault them, easily.

Maybe not Memphis. They play Por, Dallas twice, Det, and GS.

[Mythrol]

Hey Myth or Puddle Jumper or anyone- Say there is a 4 way tie 6,7,8,9 ! What does that mean for Memphis/Boston Top 8 protected?

I'll have to look Into it. My gut assumption is they have some tie breakers built in for situations like this even if they still split all pingpong balls.

[Pelicanidae]

Dallas plays the TWolves, Memphis twice, the Suns, and then the struggling Spurs. We really should vault them, easily.

Maybe not Memphis. They play Por, Dallas twice, Det, and GS.

If we lose out, all we need is for Memphis to win one of the two games against Dallas, I think. Then we'll pass them.

[Gant-]

Hey Myth or Puddle Jumper or anyone- Say there is a 4 way tie 6,7,8,9 ! What does that mean for Memphis/Boston Top 8 protected?

Ping pong balls are split. Order among the teams is done by a random drawing, which would apply to any that do not move up in the lottery.

[Tinman]

Ping pong balls are split. Order among the teams is done by a random drawing, which would apply to any that do not move up in the lottery.

Thanks. So, Memphis could actually lose their Top 8 protected due to a second set of Ping Pong Balls. Wow!
If Memphis PPB gives them 6th, then they are almost assured of staying in top 8. But, if those PPB's give them 7th, but especially 8th or 9th, then man they are likely screwed.

[Mythrol]

Ping pong balls are split. Order among the teams is done by a random drawing, which would apply to any that do not move up in the lottery.

Makes sense. I knew they had to have rules for tie breakers since so many trades have protections. The fact it's randomly drawn is a bit crazy though, that's a heck of a thing to leave to chance.