It's so nice to see that Pelicanidae and GuardianAngel25 are in love.
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It's so nice to see that Pelicanidae and GuardianAngel25 are in love.
Normally, I'd just take that as funny, but given that it's GA25, I feel compelled to tell you that we're sworn enemies now.Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
Basketball.
Luka Doncic... but we can't get him.
Tobias is techincally 26 and a free agent.
I like OG Anunoby, but he's not better than Ingram.
I think there's a good argument that Pascal Siakam has been better than Ingram overall for this year, but there is room for debate in that one. If you count Ben Simmons as a forward (I do) then he's better than Ingram.
No debate for me. Siakam.
GuardianAngel has some really good points. Not everyone sees his views but they are good points.
Siakam is older, though, in fairness. But just from this season, he does look a lot better. Here's the player comparison for 2018-19:
Ingram: 33.8mpg, 18.3pts, 5.1rbds, 3.0 assists, 0.5stls, 0.6blks, 2.5TOs, 2.9 PFs, 49.7% fg, 33.0% 3pt%, 67.5% FT%, -8 Net RTG, 13.6 PER, 2.1 WS, 0.057 WS/48, -0.4 VORP
Siakam: 31.9mpg, 16.3pts, 7rbds, 2.9asts, 1.0stls, 0.7blks, 1.8TOs, 3.0 PFs, 55% fg, 36.9% 3pt%, 78% FT%, +14 Net RTG, 7.2 WS, 0.173 WS/48, 2.8 VORP
Yep, it's pretty clear who's had the better season, individually.
Siakam is technically a PF or tweener.
I just looked up what position he spents most of his time at, and you're right. He does play more PF than SF, although he does play in a lot of positionless lineups.
As a side note, looking at the Raptor's list of lineups, it reminds me of Kawhi Leonard. He's 27 exactly, so does he count?
I don't think anyone would argue that SF is the absolute thinnest position in the entire league. That's the entire reason Solomon Hill got paid what he did. It doesn't shock me that an extremely short list to begin with, when limited with even more stipulations like age would create a single digit list.
Exactly what is the point of trying to name specific SFs better than Ingram under the age of 27?
I had no idea that Ingram's FT shooting was such tripe. Wow. For an ISO guy, that's NOT good.I just looked up what position he spents most of his time at, and you're right. He does play more PF than SF, although he does play in a lot of positionless lineups.
As a side note, looking at the Raptor's list of lineups, it reminds me of Kawhi Leonard. He's 27 exactly, so does he count?
Because if you set up the requirements to be extremely tailored, then you can create an artificial impression.
If I wanted to argue, for example, that Jrue Holiday was the best guard in the league, it would be a real challenge. But if I say best two way, pass first guard in the league under the age of 30, suddenly he's the name that's right on top.
If you cut off the age at 27, that's not just some random age. That's high enough that it looks kinda reasonable at first, but then you check and realise it's JUST young enough that Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, and Jimmy Butler are disqualified.
That's not to mention that he's just randomly decided Giannis doesn't count either.
Yeah he's not a good FT shooter at all. Rancid from the stripe.
Luca is a SG. He plays SF at times but he’s not a SF. Yea Tobias is a good one and I like him a lot. He was a tweener early on but has really turned himself into a very good SF.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 11:38 PM.
Uhh Siakam is not a SF. He’s a 24 year old PF who is finally putting together a good season. Ingram at age 20 outperformed him as well just didn’t benefit by being on one of the best teams in the NBA. How is Simmons a SF in your eyes when he literally never plays the position. He’s been a PG since he came into the NBA. Height does not make someone a SF. I guess Magic Johnson was a SF as well.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 11:32 PM.
I specifically mentioned Giannis counts if you consider him a SF which he is not. Giannis is a PF who plays the PG position offensively. So he’s not as good as the best player in the NBA my bad. LoL reaching big time trying to compare this in any way with that Holiday analogy. Jrue is arguably the best 2 way guard under 30 and that’s pretty awesome. Still a terrible comparison. Pretty simple the point I am making is Ingram is showing he is the best young SF in the NBA right now and that isn’t changing anytime soon. You can’t prove me wrong after all of the ridiculous arguments against him you made so now you have to figure out a way to be right as usual. I know it hurts you can’t come up with anything so you have to start pulling from other positions lol. Even taking all of those SFs over 27 years old you can’t find one not named Lebron or Durant who played as well as Ingram at age 20-21 y/o not even Giannis. Don’t know how you can even argue that which really you can’t other then trying to dismiss it. Fine with me! Lex Luther will return with a vengeance next season!
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 11:42 PM.
Uhhh, we've already been over Siakam. Well done for arriving late to the thread, not reading any of it, and just assuming you knew the pace of the conversation by instinct. Takes a lot of self-confidence to do that, congrats.
Simmons is a SF in my eyes because his three most commonly played-in lineups include two other guards, and he guards other forwards.
You see, part of the problem is that you have a VERY rigid definition of positions here, in a league which is increasingly becoming positionless.
Take Giannis for example. You say Giannis is a PF who sometimes plays PG offensively. He's played PF for 40% of his career minutes, so that makes some sense, but he's played SF for 30% of his career minutes too, and SG for 17% of them. How come 40% of his career minutes is enough for you to say he's a PF, but 30% isn't even worth mentioning?
Well, that's cause in today's NBA, players shift positions a LOT. So you could easily argue that Simmons plays PG on offense but SF on defense, which I would agree with probably. That's why in all-star slots, and all-nba slots, nobody is the first team all-nba Small Forward. There's guards, and there's forwards. And I guess sometimes there's centers, but in the all-star that isn't even there formally anymore either.
Finally an actual legit argument against him. I’m sure it not fathomable for you that a 21 year old kid can improve from the FT line. Or maybe not fathomable for just Ingram in this case. He’s not a finished product obviously. Has a lot of room to improve in this area and if he doesn’t then that’s a problem but not some indication of the player he is or will be as it isn’t with someone like Ben Simmons. Lebron hasn’t been much better in his career either and that’s the best SF in NBA history. I’ll put up $ he’s at 75% from the line next season.. any real takers?
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 11:59 PM.
LoL so by replying to you statement ok Sikam that you were wrong the only defense is that I was late and assuming the pace of the convo!? Lmao it’s ok to be wrong sometimes.. So the NBA is positionless yet you are sitting here arguing position? Jimmy Butler is a SF, Tobias Harris is a SF, James Ennis a SF, Jonathan Simmons a SF.. So please tell me where Simmons has time at the SF position. He simply doesn’t play it and similar to Giannis he runs the point offensively while mostly guarding PFs and at times the PG. If you ever watched him maybe you would know this and not need to go look some stat up and vaguely say he guards forwards.. yes most of the time that is PF. Sure Giannis doesn’t strictly guard PFs and is often matched up on guards because of that’s where he plays. Middleton and Snell are the SFs on that team and they play it offensively and defensively. The league is not positionless by the way so yes these guys absolutely have positions. Just cause it doesn’t match up with your argument means nothing.
Dude, I can't argue you with you if you still think the NBA has strict positions, all the time, in 2019. You might as well be arguing about phlogiston, miasma theories of disease, the eternal ether, and the static universe.
Edit: deleted the extra stuff because honestly, it will jsut make you more likely to respond and I cannot be bothered with someone who argues in such bad faith all the time. It's like you're arguing to win, rather than arguing to find the truth, and frankly it's just pathetic.
Never said the NBA has “strict” positions all the time. More twisting from you as usual to fit your argument lol. I’m saying the NBA isn’t positionless which you are arguing and that’s a little ridiculous. Because some players have the ability to play across the board is the exception not the rule. The NBA has positions and always will be. This is such a poor argument to try and bring in its positionless because it doesn’t happen to fit your argument. Since you can’t find a SF it now becomes positionless. LoL I’m arguing in bad faith!? What are you talking about? You are literally coming up with the most ridiculous stuff to be right while I have simply argued Ingram is a good player. You have reached for anything and everything just to argue and be right. I’m giving an opinion not speaking like everything I say is scripture and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Get over yourself.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-06-2019 at 12:18 AM.
Except I didn't say the NBA ''is'' positionless, did I? At all, anywhere. I said the league is ''increasingly becoming'' more positionless. Which is true, and nobody can argue that.
There are MULTIPLE people, listed at the SF, who are better than Ingram this season. Several of them have been named. When they were listed, you turned it around so that you weren't looking for players better than Ingram, no, now you want players who were better than Ingram when they were 20. Which is obviously a completely different question: a different question that conveniently allows you to ignore all of the people who have named people who met the first question, and proved you wrong.
And no, I didn't say that it's positionless because I can't find a SF. Again: multiple Small Forwards better than Ingram have been listed over the last page and a half of this thread, but multiple different people. I said it's INCREASINGLY BECOMING positionless, and that therefore it is hard to find many players at all who play exclusively SF because usually players shift between positions, and therefore some players that play SF on one side of the ball may not play it on the other, or they do split-duties, or they start SF but move to other positions etc, so if you are asking for someone who is a pure small forward, you won't find one, because not even INGRAM is a pure small forward!
This guy is exhausting. Not even reading more of the same nonsense over and over. Some people don’t take being wrong very well..
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