Best case lottery scenario (outside of Pels winning #1)...
Lakers #1
Knicks #2
Kings #3 (would convey to Boston)
Hawks #4
That gives the Pels the maximum leverage to get absolutely everything they could want.
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Best case lottery scenario (outside of Pels winning #1)...
Lakers #1
Knicks #2
Kings #3 (would convey to Boston)
Hawks #4
That gives the Pels the maximum leverage to get absolutely everything they could want.
Contributor
Agreed. I really, really like Mitchell Robinson too. And not just because of nepotism.Originally Posted by da ThRONe
Everyone aboard the Mitchell Robinson train!
I agree. Seen some people compare his upside to being Rudy Gobert, and while I see that, he's also much more of an athlete than Gobert.
Basketball.
Contributor
Not sure what's best case scenario about the Lakers getting Zion. From that standpoint, they can just keep what they have and present a bigger challenge to our own team's hopeful ascension.
But he's not nearly as skilled or good. Gobert is an elite center.
Robinson can't stay on the floor because he fouls too much. Still I like him as a prospect and someone who can build into a very competent defensive center.
Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams
Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston
Don't you understand? While the Knicks would hardly be willing to trade AD for Zion, the Lakers would. This logic is fun...
Yeah, don't really see why you'd want LA getting the #1 pick at all.
Remember that Gobert didn't even enter the league until he was 21. Robinson won't even be 21 for another 5 weeks.
Gobert also fouls a lot too, by the way. Not nearly as much as Robinson, god no, but he does. He averages 2.9 fouls per game, which is third most among C/Fs who have played at least 1500 minutes this season. He's also 7th in total fouls by C/Fs this season too. And he used to be worse at it, tying for 6th most fouls in the league, among all players, during the 2016-17 season.
I agree that Gobert is better than Robinson, sure. He is more physically limited, but he has focus and discipline, and he plays his role to perfection, while Robinson can still be a little jumpy and play outside of himself at times. But Gobert is 26 years old, and has been under a really good coach for multiple seasons now. Robinson is 20, plays for the Knicks, and went 36th in the draft. He has time to reach Gobert's level.
I honestly hate yall. Seriously. I love ya. But I hate you.
The reason I posted an entire top 4 order, is because it's the order that creates the leverage. And each team's situation is unique.
Lebron has already demonstrated he will trade away a #1 overall pick to win now. He's older than both Durant and Kyrie. And he's likely more desperate than both to add to his legacy after this year. The Championship pressure is combustible in Los Angeles right now. New York will be thrilled to get KD and Kyrie, and host playoff games again. They are entirely different circumstances.
With the Lakers able to offer Zion/Ingram/Ball/Kuz ...everyone else has to go elevate their offers. And with NYK, BOS, ATL right behind the Lakers in the draft order, it would be hard for them to not include Zion. Don't want to inlude Zion --- we'll do a deal with Knicks or Celtics and happily take Ja Morant or RJ.
Celtics have to offer Tatum, Brown, and all the picks if they still want to play. And the Pels would still walk away with one of the top tier guys in the draft.
Knicks - more likely to offer the 2nd pick that the 1st, IMO - would have to offer all their young guys, future NYK picks, and those Dallas picks.
Hawks, if they were interested, would have to offer Collins, Young, Prince and #4 to beat those offers. They couldn't pull anything off the table and be competitive with the teams ahead of them.
The Kings pick doesn't convey if it lands at #1.
The Clippers are likely making the Playoffs, so they can't win the lottery
I think the Hawks wouldn't consider a trade of the pick if it lands at #1. They would just continue their youth movement.
...the only argument I'll accept for a non Pelicans team winning the lottery that might create more leverage for the Pels than what I proposed is the Heat. But that's just a shot in the dark and a hope that Riley would trade it for AD and add two more max guys in 2020.
Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 03-05-2019 at 03:38 PM.
Yea I completely agree. The Lakers really can become the clear front runner for me depending on where their draft pick lands. The Knicks trade isn’t really a consideration for me unless it’s a top 2 pick where we can grab Zion or RJ. With Ingram he will have one season here but I think he has he time last year and this year to show the player he can become. If the way he is playing since the all star break is any indication then that is a star player no doubt. This isn’t the first time he has put together games like this either. The same people against this stretch are the same that credit one player for a little playoff stretch while the other never had the chance. Again Ingram at age 20-21 years old has put together seasons that no SF in the NBA has not named Lebron/Durant..
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 03:48 PM.
I'm sorry, this just seems like nonsense to me.
Maybe I'm just giving Magic Johnson more credit than he deserves, but there is no way, if I'm the Lakers GM, that I trade away Zion + Ingram + Ball + Kuzma for AD. Not a chance, at all. Just Zion? Maybe. But then NY can offer more with a Zion + DSJ + Robinson package, making it preferable for them to get the pick. Just Ingram/Ball/Kuzma? Sure, that would be debatable. Zion + Those guys? Not a hope in hell.
The fact that Lebron is older than Kyrie and KD is precisely why I wouldn't make that trade. Based on what he's shown this season, I don't have any reason to suspect that he can carry a team in the West into the playoffs, and there's no reason to think his game will get better from here on out. Selling out what could easily be a complete rebuild, combined with the hype-job that Zion would bring, and the ability to use Lebron as a 'mentor' (a role he would be forced into because he signed long term) would be pretty much a pre-packaged bombshell of a rebuild.
Lebron has already proved that he'll trade away a number one pick, sure, but firstly: He's not the Lakers GM, so what he would do isn't actually the most important thing, and secondly: he would trade away Andrew Wiggins. The difference between Andrew Wiggins and Zion Williamson is HUGE. One was good, the other has league-history making potential.
Now, I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for you to be right. Maybe you're right, and Magic is a bigger idiot than I think and he's willing to throw literally unlimited assets at AD.
But if I'm Magic, getting Zion and being 90% sure that I only need to wait one year for AD to come on over? I'm pulling all my offers and just sitting tight. Yes, it wastes a year of Lebron, and I'm not willing to waste that year if all I get out of it is AD+Ingram staying. But if It's AD+Ingram staying + Zion? Then I can sit and wait. I can be patient for that.
I was really upset when we didn’t draft him. Did not understand that at all. Watching the kid just workout became clear he was worth taking a flyer on.
Funny a case is being made for Robinson because he I just 20 and is on a bad team like the Knicks. Yet Ingram in the same scenario putting numbers only seen by the 2 best players in the NBA is discredited.. hmm..
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 03:53 PM.
Contributor
I get that their impetus is to win now and not wait on Zion. But I also feel the temptation to not offer Zion is higher now. Just feels like the Lakers MO would be to offer what they had before and try to put AD with Zion and LeBron.
My assumption is for people to behave in according to their own interests in this situation. I can buy that Ainge would trade Tatum to us because he figures AD for anyone is worth it. But if the Celtics had Zion, I doubt Zion is seen as a moveable asset on that particular squad.
I only see hte Knicks doing a Zion trade because it's an avenue to getting Kyrie and Durant to come too. A fair trade from that perspective.
If Mitchell Robinson was the centrepiece of the Knicks trade, I'd be saying he's not good enough too. Totally different.
LoL arguing with this is just trying to win some prize. I absolutely think the Lakers would package Zion in a second and really have no choice with Lebrons window. We have all of the leverage here especially with the Lakers not being the only show in town. They know how competitive the offers are and to get AD the will have to come up with just that. Zion and Ingram is the starting point for AD. Does anybody really think they will then be hung up on over Kuz as AD gets sent to the Knicks or Celtics? I don’t know if they attach a bunch of 1st round picks on top of that but Zion, Ingram, and Kuz is what it will take if that’s where their pick lands. I will bet they are praying for that 1st pick knowing it makes them the front runner in a mega deal.
Ok so who is the centerpiece? The draft pick? It’s not totally different either. It’s you talking up Mitchell Robinson as someone who can be an all star caliber big man because of his age, talent, and crap situation he’s put in. Which I agree and think he can be a more offensive Deandre Jordan. While ignoring the same exact things for another player who happens to be producing at a level only 2 HOFs have played better then this early on.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-05-2019 at 04:11 PM.
lebron missing the playoffs this season and the lakers missing the playoffs 6 in a row........the lakers would ship zion and half the team to us for AD to have him in 2019....
I cannot believe I have to explain this.
The centrepiece of the proposed Knicks trade is their pick. The Knicks trade is only the most desirable one if they get the #1 pick. The #2 pick still has them in the discussion, but they are not the clear favourites without the #1 pick. The #1 pick means Zion Williamson. Zion Williamson is therefore the centrepiece of the Knicks trade that has been proposed and is the one that is in the minds of most people talking about the Knicks. Zion Williamson has not played in the NBA, so there is obviously a factor of risk: maybe he will bust, maybe he will not. But that risk is a personal evaluation: you must decide whether you think it's worth it or not. I think it is, maybe you disagree. Mitchell Robinson is only an extra, a side-dish, a tag-along who sweetens the deal. In that scenario, he doesn't have to be fantastic, because he is not the primary centrepiece of the trade, he is just a bonus.
Brandon Ingram is the centrepiece of the potential Laker's trade (outside of the very, very, very, very unlikely potential that they jump up into high draft position). Therefore he gets criticised more than Robinson, because if Robinson sucks in the long run then it doesn't matter: how good he turns out to be is incidental, not instrumental to the quality of the trade. He is a bonus if he works out, and if he doesn't it's not a huge deal. Ingram, on the other hand, is required to work out on a very high level in order for the trade to be a good one. That is why he has to live up to a higher standard: he plays a higher position in the trade, and will require more money to keep long term.
That is why Mitchell Robinson gets some minor critique, but is largely just a potentially good player, whereas Ingram gets large critique despite also having potential (which I have admitted about 40 times but you don't seem to ever read those parts, weirdly enough). The scale is completely different.
They really wouldn’t have a choice. Not to mention Lebron and Zion are not the best fit.
LoL that makes no sense. Because Robinson isn’t the centerpiece his game gets critiqued less while the same positives pointed out for Robinson is ignored for Ingram. When did I ever say you didn’t think Ingram had potential? You claim he is trash now and will be trash later. I can pull up multiple post of him being ripped by you and not mentioning anything of potential. Again doesn’t make any sense to not critique Robinson the same as anyone else because the Knicks might get Zion..
When the Warriors lose a game, who is the first person you look at and criticise? I'm willing to bet it's Curry, maybe Durant, possibly Klay. It's never going to be Damian Jones or Kevon Looney. Why? Because you know that those guys, while they can have a good game or a bad game, are not the make-or-break players for that team.
That is why when discussion players as trade material, Ingram gets more critique than Robinson. Robinson is not a make-or-break part of the trade with NY. Ingram is a make-or-break piece for LA. This is like, basically priority right here.
As for the idea that I've never once mentioned anything to do with potential for Ingram:
There's two from conversations I had with you personally.
LoL you are pulling up 2 very recent posts after I basically proved your whole argument against Ingram absurd. Which then resulted in me being an idiot becuse I simply liked Ingram as much as I did Tatum. I don’t really see anywhere you talk about his potential outside of saying he could do this or that to then take a subtle shot. If you are really trying to know act like you never said anything then that’s just ridiculous. Literally paragraph after paragraph. I see you are already back tracking as you know time is not on your side in this argument. Go read some of the conversation we had just a day ago.. I’ll resurface your comments regarding Ingram when the time is right..
Can anybody find me a SF going forward for our team that is better then Ingram and not older then 27 y/o? Not named Tatum. Giannis who is a PF doesn’t count and if he does is that it?
You're absolutely insufferable.
You literally said I don't mention ANYTHING of potential. Then I pull up two quotes, from this very thread, in direct response to you, which prove that you're talking out of nothing because they show me, mentioning potential. You couldn't have missed it, because they're from this thread (which we know you've been in) and have been said in response to you, and we know you read them, because you replied to them.
So either you're lying, or you messed up. Rather than admit to making a mistake, you've decided those examples don't actually count, because what about the OTHER thread?
''I'll resurface your comments regarding Ingram when the time is right...'' lol, okay Lex Luthor.
You must like swatting flies buzzing around your face !
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