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Thread: Demps is Gone Pecan! {merged}

  1. #76
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Agreed. I'm willing to give him a chance, and I'm not above thinking people can grow and learn, and I'm not in personal contact with him so I can't say whether he has done that or not. If there were any doubts in my mind as to his views here, I'd say no thank you.
    To me, it's not even about how I view him or whether or not he's actually changed. I'd need to poll some NBA players, agents, and other league folks to see how others viewed Ferry before I could be comfortable moving forward with him. If a guy like Masai Ujiri won't pick up the phone for Ferry, and some players or coaches wouldn't want anything to do with him, I wouldn't be able to move forward no matter how much I thought the guy had learned. It's a business. No reason to start off with a competitive disadvantage.

  2. #77

    Actually it's a shame it took this

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandAdmiral View Post
    I could only hope...
    for the Pelicans to clean house. AD doing this is a blessing in disguise.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    To me, it's not even about how I view him or whether or not he's actually changed. I'd need to poll some NBA players, agents, and other league folks to see how others viewed Ferry before I could be comfortable moving forward with him. If a guy like Masai Ujiri won't pick up the phone for Ferry, and some players or coaches wouldn't want anything to do with him, I wouldn't be able to move forward no matter how much I thought the guy had learned. It's a business. No reason to start off with a competitive disadvantage.
    Well yes, but I do think the willingness of other GMs to deal with a candidate in good faith is something that I'd vet through pretty much any candidate, as much as possible. But assuming that GMs would be willing to do so (yet to be seen) there is a moral dimension to these kinds of things (for me as a fan, I understand franchises may not care at all) and for me, Ferry's personal growth would be important for my willingness to support him.
    Watching Pelicans games is what Georges Bataille meant by limit experiences.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Well yes, but I do think the willingness of other GMs to deal with a candidate in good faith is something that I'd vet through pretty much any candidate, as much as possible. But assuming that GMs would be willing to do so (yet to be seen) there is a moral dimension to these kinds of things (for me as a fan, I understand franchises may not care at all) and for me, Ferry's personal growth would be important for my willingness to support him.
    I agree to agree.

    lol

  5. #80
    If Ferry gets the job long term I hope his first move is similar to his stay in Atlanta. He wanted to gut the training staff and start over. That need to happen here.

  6. #81
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! wuggie's Avatar
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    During First Take, Stephen A actually said that the reason Rich Paul decided to take it public was due to communication and trust problems with Dell Demps. I don't remember exactly what was said but basically, I was hoping he'd get fired after hearing it because this whole thing is just a dumpster fire as Gentry said.

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  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by wuggie View Post
    During First Take, Stephen A actually said that the reason Rich Paul decided to take it public was due to communication and trust problems with Dell Demps. I don't remember exactly what was said but basically, I was hoping he'd get fired after hearing it because this whole thing is just a dumpster fire as Gentry said.
    I have no reason to trust that, for four different reasons.

    1) It's Stephen A Smith.
    2) It makes no sense that Rich Paul would feel that there were issues with trust, and immediately do something to break any and all trust as a response to that.
    3) Dell Demps would never leak information claiming he was untrustworthy and incommunicative, so it's obviously a Rich Paul leak, and it's not like he'd be objective either.
    4) It's Stephen A Smith.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I have no reason to trust that, for four different reasons.

    1) It's Stephen A Smith.
    2) It makes no sense that Rich Paul would feel that there were issues with trust, and immediately do something to break any and all trust as a response to that.
    3) Dell Demps would never leak information claiming he was untrustworthy and incommunicative, so it's obviously a Rich Paul leak, and it's not like he'd be objective either.
    4) It's Stephen A Smith.
    You could have stopped at the first reason but the fourth is equally valid!

  9. #84
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! wuggie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I have no reason to trust that, for four different reasons.

    1) It's Stephen A Smith.
    2) It makes no sense that Rich Paul would feel that there were issues with trust, and immediately do something to break any and all trust as a response to that.
    3) Dell Demps would never leak information claiming he was untrustworthy and incommunicative, so it's obviously a Rich Paul leak, and it's not like he'd be objective either.
    4) It's Stephen A Smith.
    1 is good enough lol Im just badly paraphrasing from a hazy memory. Screw Rich Paul though.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I have no reason to trust that, for four different reasons.

    1) It's Stephen A Smith.
    2) It makes no sense that Rich Paul would feel that there were issues with trust, and immediately do something to break any and all trust as a response to that.
    3) Dell Demps would never leak information claiming he was untrustworthy and incommunicative, so it's obviously a Rich Paul leak, and it's not like he'd be objective either.
    4) It's Stephen A Smith.
    This isn't really all that unbelievable even though it's coming from Stephen A.

    This is pretty much saying what we already know, that Rich Paul went public to try to force a trade before the deadline. If they felt like they had good communication and trust (which to them means Dell would work with them to get AD traded where he wanted to go), I'm sure they would have preferred to keep the $50k and the bad publicity of demanding a trade.

    Their hand was forced by Dell because they didn't think they could trust him to do exactly what they wanted.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by wuggie View Post
    During First Take, Stephen A actually said that the reason Rich Paul decided to take it public was due to communication and trust problems with Dell Demps. I don't remember exactly what was said but basically, I was hoping he'd get fired after hearing it because this whole thing is just a dumpster fire as Gentry said.
    SAS not as bad as that Max guy.

  12. #87


    Fitting.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Disagree. He should have fired the scout that wrote it, instead of reading it out to the rest of the group.

    This is a good long read on that entire ATL situation. There are some reasons to think Ferry could be great. Some reasons to think he'd be a control freak. I wouldn't exclude him from the search because of his exit from ATL, but it's definitely something they need to understand the implications of, and I'd lean away from Ferry if their was another candidate that was just as qualified without the baggage.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ime-fell-apart
    Saying someone has some African in them isn't even an ethnic comment it's cultural. Living in LA now I've had people say to me I have some New Orleans in me. After being born and raised here I'd imagine that's the case.

    As far as the article I think personally it votes well for Ferry. That's the reason why there needs to be one owner with one voice. It's an impossible task to please two different owners with two different visions.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 02-16-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    This isn't really all that unbelievable even though it's coming from Stephen A.

    This is pretty much saying what we already know, that Rich Paul went public to try to force a trade before the deadline. If they felt like they had good communication and trust (which to them means Dell would work with them to get AD traded where he wanted to go), I'm sure they would have preferred to keep the $50k and the bad publicity of demanding a trade.

    Their hand was forced by Dell because they didn't think they could trust him to do exactly what they wanted.
    Agreed. To me Scott Perry just showed the league how you handle trade requests. Quickly and as quietly as possible. This Davis situation has gotten ugly and it is staining both sides. The only bad thing is public perception hurts us way worse than it does AD.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Saying someone a person has some African in them isn't even an ethnic comment it's cultural. Living in LA now I've had people say to me I have some New Orleans in me. After being born and raised here I'd imagine that's the case.
    I'd quite like someone to explain what ''African culture'' is. My view was that Africa was a huge continent containing thousands of different cultures, many of which are opposed to each other foundationally, and which display a broad cross-section of human possibility. I wasn't aware that there is an ''African culture'' that someone could have ''in them''. Wonder if it's Sudanese culture, or South African culture. Why not British culture, where Deng spent most of his formative years as a teenager?

    I have a guess.

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'd quite like someone to explain what ''African culture'' is. My view was that Africa was a huge continent containing thousands of different cultures, many of which are opposed to each other foundationally, and which display a broad cross-section of human possibility. I wasn't aware that there is an ''African culture'' that someone could have ''in them''. Wonder if it's Sudanese culture, or South African culture. Why not British culture, where Deng spent most of his formative years as a teenager?

    I have a guess.
    I didn't say the comment wasn't ignorant. I'm saying it's not necessary based on a person ethnicity(I'm getting away from the term racist because humans aren't from a different race). Generalizing African is dumb, but plenty of people worldwide generalize US citizens. A person can be ignorant yet not be a bigot.

  17. #92
    The issue is that Ferry was comfortable reading the notes as written without redaction. If he found issue with the statement, he would have edited himself. He’s not forgiven in my eyes. It’s 2019 or whatever it was when it happened. There’s no excuse. Too many times black people are asked to turn the other cheek when this stuff happens. To some, this isn’t that big of a deal but the same people wanted Mike Vick’s career taken away for dog fighting. Vick is a piece of sh... for that btw but the point is racist actions towards or about black people isn’t even as important than animal rights. It’s always move along nothing to see here.
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  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownFuz504 View Post
    The issue is that Ferry was comfortable reading the notes as written without redaction. If he found issue with the statement, he would have edited himself. He’s not forgiven in my eyes. It’s 2019 or whatever it was when it happened. There’s no excuse. Too many times black people are asked to turn the other cheek when this stuff happens. To some, this isn’t that big of a deal but the same people wanted Mike Vick’s career taken away for dog fighting. Vick is a piece of sh... for that btw but the point is racist actions towards or about black people isn’t even as important than animal rights. It’s always move along nothing to see here.
    You're right, at least in general. I definitely agree that racism is often underplayed and gets forgiven way too quickly. For a lot of people, an apology isn't even needed, it just needs to be quiet for six months. That's not good enough.

    But I also think it's important to know that people can change, and people can grow. It's been pretty much 5 years since Ferry said this, and as others have said, he didn't even write it himself. The issue for me revolves around whether he's understood that what he read out was something he should never have said, and whether he understands the racist implications of those comments. Has he learned from his mistake, and listened to the complaints of the community, or hasn't he? If he has, I don't think there would be a major problem with hiring him. If he hasn't, nobody should want to work with him ever again.

    Someone else said it here, that a good way to go about it would be to ask the aggrieved people. Has Deng himself dealt with Ferry at all in the last 5 years? What does Deng think about this? Or Masai Ujiri? Or Joel Embiid? Why not ask actual, African born people what they think about Ferry? I don't think it's fair for people to speak over them, when they're the actual afflicted group.

  19. #94
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Saying someone a person has some African in them isn't even an ethnic comment it's cultural. Living in LA now I've had people say to me I have some New Orleans in me. After being born and raised here I'd imagine that's the case.

    As far as the article I think personally it votes well for Ferry. That's the reason why there needs to be one owner with one voice. It's an impossible task to please two different owners with two different visions.
    It’s not just that he said he has some African in him, it’s that he proceeded to explain what that meant using negative stereotypes. This was only part of it...

    In referencing Deng, who was born in Sudan and of African ethnicity, Ferry said Deng "has a little African in him," then added, "He's like a guy who would have a nice store out front and sell you counterfeit stuff out of the back."

  20. #95
    I would add that even that article shows a misunderstanding, to be honest.
    ''In referencing Deng, who was born in Sudan and of African ethnicity,''

    African is not an ethnicity. Deng is of Dinka ethnicity.

  21. #96
    The guy was fired, publicly scorned, apologized, and it has been many years since then... With that being his one and only offense as a GM ever.

    Maybe he has learned since then and should be allowed a chance? Or no? One stupid mistake and he's damned forever?

  22. #97
    He said the guy has some African in him. Was that even supposed to be an insult? Are African people insulted to be called African?

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    He said the guy has some African in him. Was that even supposed to be an insult? Are African people insulted to be called African?
    Don't be silly.

    If you say someone has ''a little African in him'', as if that's an indicator of anything meaningful, and then go on to immediately say that he's like a guy who would defraud you, what do you think the link is?

  24. #99
    The comment in the least showed a lack of understanding on his part. It was plain stupid to read it out loud.

    My guess is he probably found it funny one of the scouts would even write that and then once he read it realized people were like, wtf dude...

    Either way however he should have shown awareness and never read it out loud to a room of people to begin with. Even if he felt comfortable in the room. He made a stupid mistake.

    One that he paid dearly for. Lost his job, destroyed his public image. The guy took a huge hit for his own stupidity. The question comes down to, How long should he be punished for making this mistake?

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    The question comes down to, How long should he be punished for making this mistake?
    My answer: until he's shown that his understanding has changed. I would add that we are probably not in any position to judge whether that has occurred or not, hence my comment saying that the people who's opinions matter most are those directly attached to the comments. I would want to know what Luol Deng, Thon Maker, Masai Ujiri, Joel Embiid, Cheick Diallo, Dikembe Mutombo, Serge Ibaka, Luc Mbah a Moute, Emmanuel Mudiay, and Gorgui Dieng (just to name a few) think.

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