.
Pelicans Report
 
Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 230

Thread: What trade packages, not just for AD, do you want? What’s realistic?

  1. #126
    Also wanna add, in support of my love for Mitchell Robinson, that in the month of February, he's averaged 11.2pts, 9rbds, and 3.6 blocks per game on 69% shooting in only 23 minutes per game.
    Zion ''The Earthquake'' Williamson

    Paying attention to the next draft too early.

  2. #127
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    His fg% is down BECAUSE his 3pt% is down. His 2pt % is basically the exact same as last year. All his shooting % will be skewered because of his lower 3pt%. If he hit 10 more TOTAL 3s from the entire year his 3pt % would basically be the exact same as last year.

    He has increased his FT%, rebounds, assists, lowered his TOV% while INCREASING his usage. His PER being higher this year than last shows he is improving this year.

    So people are basing his weakened numbers off of him basically missing *2* extra 3s a MONTH. It's nonsense. The Celtics have struggled all year trying to add Kyrie and Hayward back into the lineup, Tatum has had to deal with all the same rumors as Ingram, Ball, etc and yet his is IMPROVING from nearly everywhere but his 3pt.
    He went from a very pedestrian 15.3 PER, to a very underwhelming 16 PER. That’s the Otto Porter and Chris Middleton range for Small Forwards. It’s fine, but his hype and what Pels fans expect from him seems like it is far greater than that.

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    He went from a very pedestrian 15.3 PER, to a very underwhelming 16 PER. That’s the Otto Porter and Chris Middleton range for Small Forwards. It’s fine, but his hype and what Pels fans expect from him seems like it is far greater than that.
    Dude, I don't mean to sound like an average Celtics fan but...

    HE'S ONLY 20!!!! (I mean, barely but still).

    16 is league average.

  4. #129
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    6,418
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Dude, I don't mean to sound like an average Celtics fan but...

    HE'S ONLY 20!!!! (I mean, barely but still).

    16 is league average.
    He will be 21 in 4 days.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    He will be 21 in 4 days.
    That's what, ''I mean, barely but still'', means.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    He went from a very pedestrian 15.3 PER, to a very underwhelming 16 PER. That’s the Otto Porter and Chris Middleton range for Small Forwards. It’s fine, but his hype and what Pels fans expect from him seems like it is far greater than that.
    Yeah, spin that narrative...

  7. #132
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,884
    Tatum is a bit of a victim of his own success. He still probably has the highest ceiling of he, Ingram and Kuzma.

    I do like Ingram though, he's coming along nicely. Scoring inside and outside, and playmaking too

  8. #133
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Dude, I don't mean to sound like an average Celtics fan but...

    HE'S ONLY 20!!!! (I mean, barely but still).

    16 is league average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Yeah, spin that narrative...
    Is it really spinning a narrative when all I did was state the facts? It's not like I'm saying the dude is a bum. I said he has Danny Granger potential a couple of weeks ago, and people acted like that was an insult! Middleton and Porter are solid small forwards. IF Tatum is the crown jewel of an AD trade and the sales pitch is he's 21 and LEAGUE AVERAGE... is that really the prince we've been promised?!

    I get the possibility of this high ceiling based on his age, but he has a lot of peers (22 and younger) in his basketball cohort that have just as much potential (or more).

    D'Angelo Russell
    Trae Young
    John Collins
    Lauri Markkanen
    Jamal Murray
    Marvin Bagley
    Jaren Jackson
    Donavan Mitchell
    Devin Booker
    Ben Simmons
    De'Aaron Fox
    Luka Doncic
    DeAndre Ayton

    Would any of their teams trade the above players for Tatum? Maybe the Bulls would trade Lauri. But I think that's it.

    I'm not crapping on the guy. If he comes here, he will be the best small forward we've had in a long time. Maybe I have James Posey PTSD when it comes to potentially overvaluing Celtics players! But I just don't see All NBA or even multi time All Star as very likely for Jayson Posey ... I mean Tatum ;-)

  9. #134
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Also wanna add, in support of my love for Mitchell Robinson, that in the month of February, he's averaged 11.2pts, 9rbds, and 3.6 blocks per game on 69% shooting in only 23 minutes per game.
    Knox, M-Rob and NYK 1st is probably my preferred haul right now. Thow in DSJ too

  10. #135
    The point is I can see through the act. You've made tons of excuses for the lack of improvement or even REGRESSION of Ball, Ingram, etc...

    But Tatum isnt "improving enough" even though he's improved in most major categories except 3pt% and you're taken this stance with him.

    It's laughable the effort of spin you are trying to use here.

    Tatum has just as much trade value as he did before. If anything I HOPE the Pelicans try and spin the same nonsense as you are here so they can pull some more assets from Boston.

    This whole thing reminds me of the guy on Twitter trying to say the Pelicans are playing AD to "keep his trade value up". Lol

  11. #136
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    The point is I can see through the act. You've made tons of excuses for the lack of improvement or even REGRESSION of Ball, Ingram, etc...

    But Tatum isnt "improving enough" even though he's improved in most major categories except 3pt% and you're taken this stance with him.

    It's laughable the effort of spin you are trying to use here.

    Tatum has just as much trade value as he did before. If anything I HOPE the Pelicans try and spin the same nonsense as you are here so they can pull some more assets from Boston.

    This whole thing reminds me of the guy on Twitter trying to say the Pelicans are playing AD to "keep his trade value up". Lol
    And some Pels fans are saying stop playing AD, he's not playing well right now and hurting his trade value. LMFAO

    I mean, stop playing AD of course but not for that reason

  12. #137
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kenner, LA
    Posts
    20,799
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post

    Would any of their teams trade the above players for Tatum?
    The question really is, would any of those teams trade those players for AD? That is what is relevant. While there are some on that list that I do not think have as much or more potential than Tatum, of those that do, I do not see that team parting with that player for AD. To compare him to Posey is silly though.

  13. #138
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    The point is I can see through the act. You've made tons of excuses for the lack of improvement or even REGRESSION of Ball, Ingram, etc...

    But Tatum isnt "improving enough" even though he's improved in most major categories except 3pt% and you're taken this stance with him.

    It's laughable the effort of spin you are trying to use here.

    Tatum has just as much trade value as he did before. If anything I HOPE the Pelicans try and spin the same nonsense as you are here so they can pull some more assets from Boston.

    This whole thing reminds me of the guy on Twitter trying to say the Pelicans are playing AD to "keep his trade value up". Lol
    You're confusing me with someone else. I'm not Laker Guy. The only point I've made consistently is that Tatum is not so great that he's worth waiting for. I'm the "100 things can go wrong" and the "Kyrie is leaving Boston" guy.

    I think the Lakers Players have potential, but they haven't shown enough of it consistently. Notice on my list of peers for Tatum, I didn't put any of the Lakers players. I know Tatum is more valuable than any of them individually, based on what each has shown to this point. But Ingram/Ball would still be, very much like Tatum, asset plays based on ceiling. Tatum isn't the center piece of a potential AD trade based on being the league average PER player he's been. It's based on his ceiling and potential at a still young age. All I've argued is that you can make the case for a ceiling play on Ball and Ingram as well. Tatum, Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma have all had stretches where they've demonstrated how good they can be. The Lakers players have also demonstrated how bad they can be. But again, no one has suggested we cap the potential of any of these guys who are under 22.

    Does Jayson Tatum have the highest ceiling of young players we could trade AD for? And will he actually hit it? I'm not convinced on either and I think there are reasons to be concerned. It's clear, I'm outright skeptical! I'm equally skeptical of Lakers players, but Ball/Ingram/Kuzma give you three swings at the homerun, as opposed to one potential swing in Tatum (if Kyrie doesn't leave). You prove every post that you are planning Fyre Festivals on Tatum Island and going all the way in on it. That's cool. Your flag is planted and you're convinced. I'm not trying to spin anyone, nor do I have an act. I'm just not sold on Tatum. ***shoulder.shrug.emoji***

  14. #139
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,884
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    You're confusing me with someone else. I'm not Laker Guy. The only point I've made consistently is that Tatum is not so great that he's worth waiting for. I'm the "100 things can go wrong" and the "Kyrie is leaving Boston" guy.

    I think the Lakers Players have potential, but they haven't shown enough of it consistently. Notice on my list of peers for Tatum, I didn't put any of the Lakers players. I know Tatum is more valuable than any of them individually, based on what each has shown to this point. But Ingram/Ball would still be, very much like Tatum, asset plays based on ceiling. Tatum isn't the center piece of a potential AD trade based on being the league average PER player he's been. It's based on his ceiling and potential at a still young age. All I've argued is that you can make the case for a ceiling play on Ball and Ingram as well. Tatum, Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma have all had stretches where they've demonstrated how good they can be. The Lakers players have also demonstrated how bad they can be. But again, no one has suggested we cap the potential of any of these guys who are under 22.

    Does Jayson Tatum have the highest ceiling of young players we could trade AD for? And will he actually hit it? I'm not convinced on either and I think there are reasons to be concerned. It's clear, I'm outright skeptical! I'm equally skeptical of Lakers players, but Ball/Ingram/Kuzma give you three swings at the homerun, as opposed to one potential swing in Tatum (if Kyrie doesn't leave). You prove every post that you are planning Fyre Festivals on Tatum Island and going all the way in on it. That's cool. Your flag is planted and you're convinced. I'm not trying to spin anyone, nor do I have an act. I'm just not sold on Tatum. ***shoulder.shrug.emoji***
    These are my thoughts manifested also

  15. #140
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    The question really is, would any of those teams trade those players for AD? That is what is relevant. While there are some on that list that I do not think have as much or more potential than Tatum, of those that do, I do not see that team parting with that player for AD. To compare him to Posey is silly though.
    You thought I was comparing Tatum to Posey? lol

    Read it again.

    I was acknowledging only that I might be unreasonably biased against Celtics Small Forwards based on the traumatic James Posey experience! NBA fans should share a collective trauma of seeing players do well for the Celtics, leave or get traded, and then not live up to being the player they were with the Celtics. This has literally happened over and over again going back to 2007. I recognize it should have nothing to do with how I evaluate Tatum, but I want to be transparent in my biases!!

    A lot of influential NBA media voices happen to be Celtics fans. Their fan base is large and their franchise is history. Their players, like Lakers players, get overhyped.
    Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 02-28-2019 at 11:22 AM.

  16. #141
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kenner, LA
    Posts
    20,799
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    You're confusing me with someone else. I'm not Laker Guy. The only point I've made consistently is that Tatum is not so great that he's worth waiting for. I'm the "100 things can go wrong" and the "Kyrie is leaving Boston" guy.

    I think the Lakers Players have potential, but they haven't shown enough of it consistently. Notice on my list of peers for Tatum, I didn't put any of the Lakers players. I know Tatum is more valuable than any of them individually, based on what each has shown to this point. But Ingram/Ball would still be, very much like Tatum, asset plays based on ceiling. Tatum isn't the center piece of a potential AD trade based on being the league average PER player he's been. It's based on his ceiling and potential at a still young age. All I've argued is that you can make the case for a ceiling play on Ball and Ingram as well. Tatum, Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma have all had stretches where they've demonstrated how good they can be. The Lakers players have also demonstrated how bad they can be. But again, no one has suggested we cap the potential of any of these guys who are under 22.

    Does Jayson Tatum have the highest ceiling of young players we could trade AD for? And will he actually hit it? I'm not convinced on either and I think there are reasons to be concerned. It's clear, I'm outright skeptical! I'm equally skeptical of Lakers players, but Ball/Ingram/Kuzma give you three swings at the homerun, as opposed to one potential swing in Tatum (if Kyrie doesn't leave). You prove every post that you are planning Fyre Festivals on Tatum Island and going all the way in on it. That's cool. Your flag is planted and you're convinced. I'm not trying to spin anyone, nor do I have an act. I'm just not sold on Tatum. ***shoulder.shrug.emoji***
    Based on this read, I am still not sure why you say Tatum is not worth waiting for. Did Tatum's performance in the playoffs last year not impress you? Have any of the Lakers players even approached that level? Are any of the Lakers players (or all 3) so much clearly better than Tatum now as well as their potential to jump at that offer immediately rather than waiting for Tatum or other offers? Is there any reason to expect that the Lakers players will not be available in the summer (along with maybe even a better 2019 pick)?

  17. #142
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Based on this read, I am still not sure why you say Tatum is not worth waiting for. Did Tatum's performance in the playoffs last year not impress you? Have any of the Lakers players even approached that level? Are any of the Lakers players (or all 3) so much clearly better than Tatum now as well as their potential to jump at that offer immediately rather than waiting for Tatum or other offers? Is there any reason to expect that the Lakers players will not be available in the summer (along with maybe even a better 2019 pick)?
    As I've stated at least a 100x, I think Kyrie is leaving Boston. So that's part of why I don't think Tatum is worth waiting for. I think it's a coin flip at best that he's offered in the deal.

    I also don't think any of the Lakers players are better than Tatum right now. I thought I was clear on that point. But they've all had stretches that demonstrate they can be. For instance, Ingram is currently, IMO, playing at a higher level than Tatum. In an AD trade, I want swings at success. So I want multiple draft picks and multiple young players. I like trades with a lot of teams that can offer that: Knicks, Clippers, Hawks, Magic, Lakers, Celtics...

    I never saw the Celtics as clearly preferable.

    Kyrie FREAKING Irving being the first domino to fall that will impact the future of the Pelicans franchise is a ridiculous position to be in. But that's the position we're in. The offer from Lakers can get worse if the prospect of a huge Knicks offers or a huge Celtics offers doesn't materialize based on draft order or need (dictated by free agent movement).

    The Lakers also will not rush the trade if they have the ability to sign a free agent this summer, and if they think the Celtics and Knicks offers have become weaker or diminished. Too many prideful guys over there and if they think they can squeeze the Pelicans at any point in this they will. If there are odds that AD opens the season on the Pels roster, it would be worth a small bet on the upside potential of that payoff.

    This summer will be fun if you like the transaction side of NBA. But the risk is real for the Pelicans, that they end up with a deal we'll be debating the merits of and comparing to the Lakers offer for a decade.
    Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 02-28-2019 at 12:00 PM.

  18. #143
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,884
    Wise words NM

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    You're confusing me with someone else. I'm not Laker Guy. The only point I've made consistently is that Tatum is not so great that he's worth waiting for. I'm the "100 things can go wrong" and the "Kyrie is leaving Boston" guy.

    I think the Lakers Players have potential, but they haven't shown enough of it consistently. Notice on my list of peers for Tatum, I didn't put any of the Lakers players. I know Tatum is more valuable than any of them individually, based on what each has shown to this point. But Ingram/Ball would still be, very much like Tatum, asset plays based on ceiling. Tatum isn't the center piece of a potential AD trade based on being the league average PER player he's been. It's based on his ceiling and potential at a still young age. All I've argued is that you can make the case for a ceiling play on Ball and Ingram as well. Tatum, Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma have all had stretches where they've demonstrated how good they can be. The Lakers players have also demonstrated how bad they can be. But again, no one has suggested we cap the potential of any of these guys who are under 22.

    Does Jayson Tatum have the highest ceiling of young players we could trade AD for? And will he actually hit it? I'm not convinced on either and I think there are reasons to be concerned. It's clear, I'm outright skeptical! I'm equally skeptical of Lakers players, but Ball/Ingram/Kuzma give you three swings at the homerun, as opposed to one potential swing in Tatum (if Kyrie doesn't leave). You prove every post that you are planning Fyre Festivals on Tatum Island and going all the way in on it. That's cool. Your flag is planted and you're convinced. I'm not trying to spin anyone, nor do I have an act. I'm just not sold on Tatum. ***shoulder.shrug.emoji***
    My dude, you typed a whole lot of nonsense. You were the one literally arguing with people that we should take the Lakers trade over Tatum. You were the one trying to use what little you could to hype up the "potential" of Ingram and Ball even after they showed regression.

    And now you're the one trying to tear down Tatum evne though he's actually improved on basically everything except 3s where he's missed a whopping 2 extra 3s a month this season. You keep trying to lump Tatum on the same level as Ingram and Ball. It's so obvious what you're doing dude. Give it up.

    Now you still throwing shade on Tatum saying "League Average PER". First league average PER means nothing unless you look at it by position since bigs typically have a higher PER. For his position his PER is the 10th highest in the entire league. For reference Ingram ranks 26th. You trash Tatum and his 16 PER and try to build up Ingram and Ball who have never even had league Average PER and are year over year LOWER.

    You assume because I don't fall for your nonsense that I'm all in on Boston. I'm. Not. I'm all in getting the best package possible. You think if Dallas offers Luka for AD I'd still want Tatum? Heck no! But naming all these players that we can't get with AD and saying "See Tatum couldn't get them" is pointless. It's all about what we can get for AD. Atlanta offers Young and a good package? Cool, let's go.

    But cut the nonsense of trying to tear down Tatum after you spent so long trying to hype up Ingram and Ball who have never shown the promise of Tatum. His trade value is exactly as it was before. The reason people prefer Tatum is he has shown more already than either of the Lakers players. Plus if you get picks also you still get your shots at players.

    Lay ou the packages for AD and let's discuss that. Stop wasting your time trying to devalue Tatum.
    Last edited by Mythrol; 02-28-2019 at 12:25 PM.

  20. #145
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    My dude, you typed a whole lot of nonsense. You were the one literally arguing with people that we should take the Lakers trade over Tatum. You were the one trying to use what little you could to hype up the "potential" of Ingram and Ball even after they showed regression.

    And now you're the one trying to tear down Tatum evne though he's actually improved on basically everything except 3s where he's missed a whopping 2 extra 3s a month this season. You keep trying to lump Tatum on the same level as Ingram and Ball. It's so obvious what you're doing dude. Give it up.

    Now you still throwing shade on Tatum saying "League Average PER". First league average PER means nothing unless you look at it by position since bigs typically have a higher PER. For his position his PER is the 10th highest in the entire league. For reference Ingram ranks 26th. You trash Tatum and his 16 PER and try to build up Ingram and Ball who have never even had league Average PER and are year over year LOWER.

    You assume because I don't fall for your nonsense that I'm all in on Boston. I'm. Not. I'm all in getting the best package possible. You think if Dallas offers Luka for AD I'd still want Tatum? Heck no! But naming all these players that we can't get with AD and saying "See Tatum couldn't get them" is pointless. It's all about what we can get for AD. Atlanta offers Young and a good package? Cool, let's go.

    But cut the nonsense of trying to tear down Tatum after you spent so long trying to hype up Ingram and Ball who have never shown the promise of Tatum. His trade value is exactly as it was before.
    Seriously, try to keep up...

    1. Pelicandae is the one who initially referenced Tatum's league average PER.

    2. Jayson Tatum's PER at his position is .62 ahead of freaking Bojan!

    3. IF you're dealing an asset like AD for any of these young players it should be based on potential, not production (because, Bojan)

    4. I've always preferred a Knicks deal, not a Lakers trade.

    5. If not believing Tatum is the next GOAT is the equivalent of tearing him down, I'm guilty. But I think I've said he's better than the Lakers guys at least half a dozen times today alone!

    6. The point of naming 15 or so players all under 22 that are in Tatum's basketball cohort, wasn't to say that we should/could get them instead. It was to point out that the concept of Tatum as some Unicorn or future All NBA prospect over the next 10 years is flawed. His peers are already as good or better in some cases.

    7. And again, I've never been the poster consistently hyping up Ball or Ingram. All I've ever said is like Tatum, they have potential. You literally have me confused with someone else.

    You love Tatum. Cool. But you're bordering on being completely irrational anytime he comes up! I don't love him, but think he has potential. What is so objectively wrong with that take?!? Do you think he's currently a top 50 player? What about top 30? He's only the 3rd best player on the 5 seed in the East. A team with a coach everyone has salivated over. What am I missing here?! Why is Tatum viewed as such a great asset?
    Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 02-28-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  21. #146
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Lay ou the packages for AD and let's discuss that. Stop wasting your time trying to devalue Tatum.
    I've laid out plenty of packages I'd hope are on the table for AD. Lakers trades, Knicks trades, Hawks trades, three way trades, a John Wall and Beal trade! ... I've probably tossed out more scenarios than anyone!

    But anytime I see Jayson "the GOAT" Tatum's name 6 times in this forum... I'm going to appear out of nowhere!

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Seriously, try to keep up...

    1. Pelicandae is the one who initially referenced Tatum's league average PER.

    2. Jayson Tatum's PER at his position is .62 ahead of freaking Bojan!

    3. IF you're dealing an asset like AD for any of these young players it should be based on potential, not production (because, Bojan)

    4. I've always preferred a Knicks deal, not a Lakers trade.

    5. If not believing Tatum is the next GOAT is the equivalent of tearing him down, I'm guilty. But I think I've said he's better than the Lakers guys at least half a dozen times today alone!

    6. The point of naming 15 or so players all under 22 that are in Tatum's basketball cohort, wasn't to say that we should/could get them instead. It was to point out that the concept of Tatum as some Unicorn or future All NBA prospect over the next 10 years is flawed. His peers are already as good or better in some cases.

    7. And again, I've never been the poster consistently hyping up Ball or Ingram. All I've ever said is like Tatum, they have potential. You literally have me confused with someone else.

    You love Tatum. Cool. But you're bordering on being completely irrational anytime he comes up! I don't love him, but think he has potential. What is so objectively wrong with that take?!? Do you think he's currently a top 50 player? What about top 30? He's only the 3rd best player on the 5 seed in the East. A team with a coach everyone has salivated over. What am I missing here?! Why is Tatum viewed as such a great asset?
    Yet again You don't understand my point at all. You think I view Tatum as some all star unicorn special player. I don't. I think he is realistically the best player we can get in an AD trade unless a team gets Zion and is willing to deal.

    My point is simply I see you for what you are trying to do. You are hating more on Tatum than you did at any point when you were arguing we should trade for Ingram and Ball. This isn't me confusing you with someone else. You we literally pushing for the Laker trade (and a Knicks trade) and trying to justify it by "potential" even those Ingram and Ball have shown far more regression than anything else. Now you are trying to devalue Tatum because he "hasn't improved enough". Where were these same takes on Ingram and Ball when you wanted us to do the Laker deal at the deadline?

    No one is saying you didn't prefer the Knicks trade, but you 100% argued we should take the Lakers package over waiting on Tatum. Heck you've said the same thing in this thread. Now all of a sudden you start trying to hate on Tatum and say he "hasn't improved enough" and his trade value has went down. Yet you're the same person who wanted us to take Ingram and Ball and excused their poor play. Tatum is improving in nearly every aspect but it's not fast enough for you so you're throwing shade on him. It's hilarious how obvious you're being.

    Personally, give me the best package possible. More players doesn't mean you have better odds of hitting an All Star. Better players and higher picks gives you better odds. Name off the better players than Tatum that we can realistically get then we can have a conversation otherwise hating on Tatum is pointless.

  23. #148
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kenner, LA
    Posts
    20,799
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    As I've stated at least a 100x, I think Kyrie is leaving Boston. So that's part of why I don't think Tatum is worth waiting for. I think it's a coin flip at best that he's offered in the deal.

    I also don't think any of the Lakers players are better than Tatum right now. I thought I was clear on that point. But they've all had stretches that demonstrate they can be. For instance, Ingram is currently, IMO, playing at a higher level than Tatum. In an AD trade, I want swings at success. So I want multiple draft picks and multiple young players. I like trades with a lot of teams that can offer that: Knicks, Clippers, Hawks, Magic, Lakers, Celtics...

    I never saw the Celtics as clearly preferable.

    Kyrie FREAKING Irving being the first domino to fall that will impact the future of the Pelicans franchise is a ridiculous position to be in. But that's the position we're in. The offer from Lakers can get worse if the prospect of a huge Knicks offers or a huge Celtics offers doesn't materialize based on draft order or need (dictated by free agent movement).

    The Lakers also will not rush the trade if they have the ability to sign a free agent this summer, and if they think the Celtics and Knicks offers have become weaker or diminished. Too many prideful guys over there and if they think they can squeeze the Pelicans at any point in this they will. If there are odds that AD opens the season on the Pels roster, it would be worth a small bet on the upside potential of that payoff.

    This summer will be fun if you like the transaction side of NBA. But the risk is real for the Pelicans, that they end up with a deal we'll be debating the merits of and comparing to the Lakers offer for a decade.
    Again, nothing in this gives me a valid reason as to why the Pelicans should have jumped at the deadline for a less than stellar offer as opposed to waiting. There is no way the Lakers are going to pass on AD for another FA (outside of KD maybe) if they think they can get him. All teams can now present offers. Additionally, the offseason is much easier for all teams if for no other reason, the expanded rosters. I would rather get the best player possible than fill our roster with 3-4 lesser players with the hope that one eventually becomes better. That leads to justifying overpaying them to keep them around as centerpieces to the AD trade (ala Gordon).

  24. #149
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Yet again You don't understand my point at all. You think I view Tatum as some all star unicorn special player. I don't. I think he is realistically the best player we can get in an AD trade unless a team gets Zion and is willing to deal.

    My point is simply I see you for what you are trying to do. You are hating more on Tatum than you did at any point when you were arguing we should trade for Ingram and Ball. This isn't me confusing you with someone else. You we literally pushing for the Laker trade (and a Knicks trade) and trying to justify it by "potential" even those Ingram and Ball have shown far more regression than anything else. Now you are trying to devalue Tatum because he "hasn't improved enough". Where were these same takes on Ingram and Ball when you wanted us to do the Laker deal at the deadline?

    No one is saying you didn't prefer the Knicks trade, but you 100% argued we should take the Lakers package over waiting on Tatum. Heck you've said the same thing in this thread. Now all of a sudden you start trying to hate on Tatum and say he "hasn't improved enough" and his trade value has went down. Yet you're the same person who wanted us to take Ingram and Ball and excused their poor play. Tatum is improving in nearly every aspect but it's not fast enough for you so you're throwing shade on him. It's hilarious how obvious you're being.

    Personally, give me the best package possible. More players doesn't mean you have better odds of hitting an All Star. Better players and higher picks gives you better odds. Name off the better players than Tatum that we can realistically get then we can have a conversation otherwise hating on Tatum is pointless.
    I think what I've posted speaks for itself, so I won't even attempt to debate you on whatever it is you think you're seeing.

    Tatum is better than any of Ingram, Ball or Kuzma. We agree. I think it's just a matter of you thinking the gap in potential is the Grand Canyon, and I think it's a bike lane.

    And I believe that Kyrie and KD to the Knicks is a done deal. Which means we're not getting Tatum anyway...

    I can't make my position any clearer than that. Hope I'm wrong.

  25. #150
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    public housing
    Posts
    3,343
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Again, nothing in this gives me a valid reason as to why the Pelicans should have jumped at the deadline for a less than stellar offer as opposed to waiting. There is no way the Lakers are going to pass on AD for another FA (outside of KD maybe) if they think they can get him. All teams can now present offers. Additionally, the offseason is much easier for all teams if for no other reason, the expanded rosters. I would rather get the best player possible than fill our roster with 3-4 lesser players with the hope that one eventually becomes better. That leads to justifying overpaying them to keep them around as centerpieces to the AD trade (ala Gordon).
    Who is the best player possible? I think the Pelicans would have some idea already at the deadline who that is. The only team that couldn't bid is Boston, and teams that land Zion aren't going to trade him for a potential rental.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •