Welcome, and no thank you. But try again.Originally Posted by RodyTur10
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Welcome, and no thank you. But try again.
No! We're gonna get most of that for AD. Basically, you're giving us Mid first rounders and Robert Williams for Jrue . And there is NOBODY that wants Haywards Ball & Chain.
Last edited by Tinman; 01-30-2019 at 06:29 PM.
Well the problem is that it isn't easy to match salaries. One of Hayward, Horford and Smart has to go. And Smart is our team leader and probably more valuable to the Celtics than as a trade piece. And with Hayward or Horford included, then New Orleans has to send out a big salary on their part. I understand that Hill is the first option that comes to mind, but he doesn't make any sense for the Celtics. I figured that including Holiday would give you some extra pieces to rebuild. And Holiday is an excellent player, but he isn't the type of star (on that contract) that's going to give you multiple lottery picks on the open market.
However, if there's no interest in such a trade here I won't bother you again. This is a high quality forum.
Last edited by RodyTur10; 01-30-2019 at 06:50 PM.
Nah. It's not hard to match salaries at all. The trade would have to be tweaked to get the number of players right, maybe a 3rd team to unload some of the filler, and of course you're throwing in Memphis and Sac 1sts but here's the basis of a trade.Well the problem is that it isn't easy to match salaries. One of Hayward, Horford and Smart has to go. And Smart is our team leader and probably more valuable to the Celtics than as a trade piece. And with Hayward or Horford included, then New Orleans has to send out a big salary on their part. I understand that Hill is the first option that comes to mind, but he doesn't make any sense for the Celtics. I figured that including Holiday would give you some extra pieces to rebuild. And Holiday is an excellent player, but he isn't the type of star (on that contract) that's going to give you multiple lottery picks on the open market.
However, if there's no interest in such a trade here I won't bother you again
Hayward and Tatum ($37.9 mil) and picks for AD and Hill ($37.6 mil) its pretty damn easy. Plus the Celtics get Hill to be a backup SF and y'all are losing 2 SF's. Also the Pelicans are taking Hayward's huge deal.
Welcome to be here
Why should the Pelicans take Haywards Garbage salary?
To get more assets, 3 picks instead of 2. Also, I am a firm believer that keeping this team decent after this year (~40 wins) is important. Jrue-Tatum-Hayward+Frank+Jah+2 or 3 rookies and cap space (~$70 mil on the books w/o E’twaun, $78 mil w/ him). All of that on top of Niko's bird rights. That is a good situation to be in. Hayward was an All-Star and he suffered a scary injury. It will take some time for him to be fully better. Hell, even if he returns to 85% of his old self, he will help this team as the 3rd option.
There's something of a conflict in that, no?
If you want to remain decent (40 wins is better than we did with AD by the way) then the value of picks doesn't really matter hugely, because our own pick will be devalued every year, and we'll be in that state of maintenance.
In this league, you're either good every year via continuity and star power (Golden State, prime Spurs, Miami Heat during the big 3 era, Portland now, so on) or you're good because you suck for a little while and then build up in the draft (Sixers built this way, Orlando is trying to, Nuggets did this; even Golden State's current continuity began this way, drafting Curry, Klay and Draymond).
Being just mediocre enough to sink the value of our picks every year, but never actually good enough to win anything, basically turns you into a poor man's Memphis Grizzlies. Imagine being a poor man's Memphis Grizzlies.
Basketball.
That roster looks 41-41 !
I have a lot of thoughts here. First, I could see us winning more regular ceiling games in the next few years than we did with AD even if we have less talent. I think a player like AD raises your ceiling but has a lower floor while the team next season will have a higher floor but a lower ceiling. Second, the Magic are not a good team to include, their organization has been embarrassing ever since Dwight left. I also hate the Sixers type of rebuild. The tear everything down to the studs and acquire young talent is awful, especially to a team in market as small as New Orleans. The fanbase would die out. It is also hard to develop more than 2 or 3 young guys at once. With 2 very good veteran players, a budding star, and rookies is the perfect level of youth and talent. Third, shoot for 40 wins next season, continue to make moves around Jrue-Tatum-Hawyward, develop Frank, Jah, and the rookies. MM said bring back Elf, Mirotic, and get WCS. That, plus Hayward is only on the books for 2 years and there's a chance the FO could trade him when he is an expiring.
I also hold a firm belief that there is value to being the Grizzlies. Obviously not this season or last season but before that, they made the playoffs 8 straight years in a row before these last 2 years. I would sure as hell rather be cheering for a team like that over the last 10 years than the Pelicans. For a small market team like the Pelicans with no winning culture, it is important to develop that culture and atmosphere. The NBA isn't about championships for teams/markets like New Orleans. It is about putting out an enjoyable product and maybe everything clicks or the rights happens and there's a shot at a title. The NBA isn't fair. The Lakers sucked for 6 straight seasons and then they get Lebron. That is why I want an enjoyable product more than anything.
Edit: I am assuming the picks we would receive from BOS are the MEM (would not get this year), SAC (~#13), and LAC (~#18) pick on top of our own (~#9), I dont want the Pelicans pick to be in the top 10 after this year, I want to win.
Last edited by neitzelbaby12; 01-30-2019 at 08:20 PM.
I agree that a team like that has a higher floor than a superstar team, I'm not disagreeing with that.
I included the Magic because I was being honest and giving a range of possibilities. The inclusion of Golden State, Denver, and Philly are more than enough positive endorsement for the tactic, it's fair to show another team who isn't doing it too well.
It can be difficult to develop too many young guys at once, sure, but do we really have a choice? Niko is probably going to walk without AD, Randle is definitely going to walk without AD, AD is obviously going. We have very few players under contract for next season, and I personally think it's a better choice to get a bunch of rookies and try to build a coherent identity around them, rather than just signing the dregs of the NBA that are willing to come to New Orleans to fill out a roster. That's a value judgement, sure, and you can disagree, but that's my stance on it.
I don't care what Michael McNamara says.
There's definitely value to being the Grizzlies, but look at where they are. Sure, they've been good for a bunch of years, but they're disintegrating before our eyes, and once they've fully collapsed they're going to have a big hiccough in their chronology where they suck for years because they don't own their draft pick this year, and they didn't own it a few years ago (I think) so the only rookie they've had since like, 2015, is Jaren Jackson Jr. Sure, he's great, but he's not going to guide them to the playoffs and as a small market, it's unlikely they'll be able to add anything to him through free agency. They just have to wait until they get a draft pick again, and then hope to hit on it. So they have sucked for two years now, and they're likely going to suck for another 2, maybe even 3.
So if you take my route, you're tanking the rest of this year and trading for a bunch of picks, and possibly tanking next year depending on who we draft, and then being good-to-great for 8 years. If you take the Grizzlies route, you're mediocre-to-solid for 8 years, and then suck for half a decade.
It's a floor and ceiling problem. Sure, being the Grizzlies leads to a higher floor, but it also almost guarantees you collapse after a while into awfulness. My tactic has a lower floor, maybe, but it has MUCH higher ceiling, and the sucking starts now for maybe 2 years, instead of later for 4 years.
If you think the Pels are going to go anywhere near that Albatros of a contract that is Hayward I don't know what to tell you. We ain't trading for him.
This thread has definitely broken the record for Words per post ! Holy Cow !
Woj as quoted by "Legendary Lakers:" "Woj just said on ESPN that the Pelicans have no interest in trading with the Lakers. Celtics called and told them that everyone besides Kyrie is available, be patient."
https://twitter.com/goldlakerss/stat...790126593?s=20
Great news. Not surprising, but still good to hear confirmed. We shouldn't even answer the phone to Magic.
Hey, welcome to the forum!
I think the premise isn't that far off but I believe the Pelicans probably want to hold onto Holiday during the rebuild. I don't think they're necessarily rushing to move him. He's become an incredibly valuable defensive player and can fit with most players offensively given his versatility to play on and off the ball. As you said with Smart, Jrue is probably more valuable to us than he is as a trade asset.
The other difficult part of this trade is assessing Gordon Hayward - from what I read he seems to be a shell of his former self. Is this true or do you think if given more opportunity he will return to something close to Utah form? If not, then I think we'd more interested in taking the Horford contract since it'd be easier to trade or simply keep to stay competitive and I think Boston should be willing to since AD would take up all of Horford's minutes.
How about this as a counter offer:
To New Orleans - Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier (sign-and-trade), Al Horford, '19 Kings pick, '19 Clippers pick, '20 Celtics pick, '20/21 Grizzlies pick
To Boston: Anthony Davis and Solomon Hill
I think the key pieces from the Celtics have to be Tatum, Brown, and at least two of their 1st round picks. Probably Memphis and Sac/Clippers.
Can't really be Memphis, they only get Memphis if they're unlucky enough to be outside the top 8. We want to get BOTH the Sacramento and Clippers picks
The protection is lessened to Top 6 next year, and then unprotected the following year. Memphis is almost guaranteed to be a pretty good pick whenever you get it.
I'd love for that but I think the trade I proposed would easily beat the Lakers trade and I'd still take it over what the Knicks can offer, even with Zion.
Let's assume the 2nd player along with Tatum can be either Smart, Brown or Rozier (S&T) and Rozier is probably the clear 3rd. Which player would you most like to add? I'm a big fanboy of Smart... think he's a really unique player that could be a cornerstone piece that adds intangible qualities to the team, but Brown is more talented. And what if the choice becomes Smart + extra 1st rounder (let's assume LAC 1st) or Brown?
Yeah but I suppose that depends on how fast you want to rebuild. If you want to deck out the roster with young players as soon as possible and get them growing together, then a first round pick in 2021, isn't worth as much as say, the 13th pick this season. If you're more concerned with competing as soon as possible and just adding young players as icing on the cake, then getting a 2021 first round pick is great, but I would also argue that if you want to be as good as possible as quickly as possible, you shouldn't be looking at Boston anyway. NY has a better deal for that scenario.
I start off asking for Tatum, Brown, Smart, Memphis #1, Kings #1, 2020 Celtics #1. Can't see us getting all of that, but ask for the world.
This is true. You always start with asking that. When I said the core I meant what must be included no matter what. I view the core as Tatum, Brown, and two 1sts with one being Mem and the other highest. Those are the pieces I don't budge on.
The rest of the pieces I'm willing to play ball with and negotiate with Boston. But I must get Brown, Tatum, and two first.
The other thing to consider is Boston is asking us to hold off trading him. That puts a huge premium on AD. They must be willing to pay extra for us to turn down offers now and work with them this summer.
That’s the exact deal I’m hoping for also.
I'd love to sneak Boston's pick in there also. Tha would allow us to have 4 picks, possibly using a couple to move up, while still having other picks . We could possibly be looking at the Memphis sliding scale pick & 3 other picks 22 & improving. Keep pulling for Boston & Sacramento to lose,
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