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Thread: Rockets to Cut Melo

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    How many players is he better than on OKC, atl, and Hou yet he couldn't work at any of those places...

    See no matter how good or bad Melo is in a vacuum, he's terrible in the modern NBA. Iso ball and all midrange is dead, volume shooting from a bench player is not needed.

    And unlike players like Carter who were willing to change their game Melo has had attitude problems everywhere he's went and had a refusal to change.
    You're not being honest in your argument. OKC and ATL was paying him $24M. OKC was facing a $300M luxury tax bill. They also got back Schoerder in the trade for him. A player anybody here would take. Stop acting like Houston is the same situation.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    You're not being honest in your argument. OKC and ATL was paying him $24M. OKC was facing a $300M luxury tax bill. They also got back Schoerder in the trade for him. A player anybody here would take. Stop acting like Houston is the same situation.
    No one was taking Schroeder back here.... Not without a heck load of other assets. His contract is terrible and he's in trouble with the court. OKC thought HE was a better option than Melo.

    Atl is ABSOLUTELY still paying him his money.... To Not be on the team.

    And again. You don't address my point. How many players is he "better" than on those teams and yet he still got the boot?

    Money is irrelevant because ATL is STILL paying him and OKC has arguably a worse deal now (its certainly longer and more total money).

    How good or bad Melo is in a vacuum is irrelevant. He doesn't fit the current NBA. That's why MULTIPLE teams have given up on him and why The Pels have already said they have zero interest.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    It'd be nice if yall stop trying to combine arguments to make your point seem right. I've already agreed that Melo has declined. But he's declined from an allstar status. He is still a good player. Stop acting like he wouldnt be a top 7 player on this team. You can give a thousand explanations and he is still better than half of our team, period.
    Did Melo pay off your mortgage or something?

    You're defending him to a ridiculous degree. You asked why Melo is getting all this hate when Gordon is playing ''twice as worse''. I explained to you exactly why Melo gets more hate than Gordon. Then you accused me of ''trying to combine arguments'' to make the point. You do realise that's how good arguments work, right? You have multiple lines of evidence that COMBINE to point to the same conclusion. That conclusion is that Melo is a BAD player.

    And you admit that, you just keep saying it in this weird way where you say he's declined from all-star status but he's still good.

    I've asked again, and again, and again, how bad he would have to be for you to consider him just bad. And every single time you've dodged it by saying you admit he's declined from allstar status.

    If we sign him and he puts up 10 points on 38%, are you still gonna defend him? 5 points on 35%? 2 points on 30%? At what point does ''declined from allstar status'' start being BAD? For me, it's shipped off from four different teams in 18 calendar months because your downward spiral keeps going down with no sign of recovery.

    You keep saying that he's better than X player, or Y, player (''stop acting like he wouldn't be a top 7 player'') but who cares what Melo might look like one on one? This game is not played like a game of Golden Sun on the Gameboy, you don't take turns and wait for players to make moves. Things happen in motion, or they don't happen at all. If this was 2008, maybe you'd have a point, but in today's game if you can't shoot threes, can't defend, can't run, and can't pass, you are USELESS.

    Maybe one on one, Melo is better than Wesley Johnson and Darius Miller. Hell, one on one, he almost certainly is better than them. But basketball is not played one on one, and those players have skillsets that suit the role we need, and Melo just flat. out. doesn't.
    Basketball.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    No one was taking Schroeder back here.... Not without a heck load of other assets. His contract is terrible and he's in trouble with the court. OKC thought HE was a better option than Melo.

    Atl is ABSOLUTELY still paying him his money.... To Not be on the team.

    And again. You don't address my point. How many players is he "better" than on those teams and yet he still got the boot?

    Money is irrelevant because ATL is STILL paying him and OKC has arguably a worse deal now (its certainly longer and more total money).

    How good or bad Melo is in a vacuum is irrelevant. He doesn't fit the current NBA. That's why MULTIPLE teams have given up on him and why The Pels have already said they have zero interest.
    Now Schroder has a terrible contract? I'm starting to think you will say anything to be right. By how much is Schroder overpaid:by making $15m/yr? I can also pull receipts from the Schroder thread on this board this summer, people here were willing to give up assets for him. Not to mention they got Luwawu as well, another player people here wanted.

    You saying it didnt work in Atlanta like he played a game for them. They wanted to let their young guys grow, made sense by everybody for them to buy him out. He didnt want to play there either.

    The Pels have not said that. William Guillory said that. Kevin O'Connor said different. You chose to believe the reporter that lined up with your beliefs. In a vacuum, in a system, in dreams Melo is still better than half our roster, which warrants at least bringing him in. Stop acting like we got some championship roster put together. We are 7-7

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Did Melo pay off your mortgage or something?

    You're defending him to a ridiculous degree. You asked why Melo is getting all this hate when Gordon is playing ''twice as worse''. I explained to you exactly why Melo gets more hate than Gordon. Then you accused me of ''trying to combine arguments'' to make the point. You do realise that's how good arguments work, right? You have multiple lines of evidence that COMBINE to point to the same conclusion. That conclusion is that Melo is a BAD player.

    And you admit that, you just keep saying it in this weird way where you say he's declined from all-star status but he's still good.

    I've asked again, and again, and again, how bad he would have to be for you to consider him just bad. And every single time you've dodged it by saying you admit he's declined from allstar status.

    If we sign him and he puts up 10 points on 38%, are you still gonna defend him? 5 points on 35%? 2 points on 30%? At what point does ''declined from allstar status'' start being BAD? For me, it's shipped off from four different teams in 18 calendar months because your downward spiral keeps going down with no sign of recovery.

    You keep saying that he's better than X player, or Y, player (''stop acting like he wouldn't be a top 7 player'') but who cares what Melo might look like one on one? This game is not played like a game of Golden Sun on the Gameboy, you don't take turns and wait for players to make moves. Things happen in motion, or they don't happen at all. If this was 2008, maybe you'd have a point, but in today's game if you can't shoot threes, can't defend, can't run, and can't pass, you are USELESS.

    Maybe one on one, Melo is better than Wesley Johnson and Darius Miller. Hell, one on one, he almost certainly is better than them. But basketball is not played one on one, and those players have skillsets that suit the role we need, and Melo just flat. out. doesn't.
    You saying all that and Melo is still putting up better numbers than all 3 of our SFs combined THIS YEAR. Just say you hate him and be done with it. Because numbers are your main argument and it doesnt back up why he isnt better than half our roster. He was such a terrible fit in OKC that they still finished higher than us last season with a terrible bench and Roberson going down. And Melo was a big factor in their 2nd half push, but you won't even acknowledge that because it goes against your biased argument. Okay he didnt have a good playoffs. Neither did PG and you would've happily paid him max dollars.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Now Schroder has a terrible contract? I'm starting to think you will say anything to be right. By how much is Schroder overpaid:by making $15m/yr? I can also pull receipts from the Schroder thread on this board this summer, people here were willing to give up assets for him. Not to mention they got Luwawu as well, another player people here wanted.

    You saying it didnt work in Atlanta like he played a game for them. They wanted to let their young guys grow, made sense by everybody for them to buy him out. He didnt want to play there either.

    The Pels have not said that. William Guillory said that. Kevin O'Connor said different. You chose to believe the reporter that lined up with your beliefs. In a vacuum, in a system, in dreams Melo is still better than half our roster, which warrants at least bringing him in. Stop acting like we got some championship roster put together. We are 7-7
    Pull up the quotes from the thread then. There was a lot of discussion about Schroeder and it all revolved around ATL having to take back Hill AND give up an asset/s for us to take him because of his contract + legal issues.

    As far as which reporter... I believe the one who actually talked to the Pels, asked them about Melo specifically, and got the answer that they were not interested.

    Not some reporter who's words were, "I've heard the name of 3 teams." Especially not some reporter who was already refuted by Marc Stein himself saying the Lakers are done making moves right now in regards to Melo.

    So two different reporters are reporting that two of the three teams that this guy said he "heard" are not interested. Hmmm I wonder if he's credible...

    You're simply so desperate to try and defend Melo that you're trying to wrap whatever you can to do it. It won't play out son.

    If Melo is better in a system why has he not worked out at his last two systems? Who is so much better than Melo that he cannot get minutes with the Rockets?

    He made the Thunder worse. He made the Rockets worse. How is this so hard for you to compute?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    You saying all that and Melo is still putting up better numbers than all 3 of our SFs combined THIS YEAR. Just say you hate him and be done with it. Because numbers are your main argument and it doesnt back up why he isnt better than half our roster. He was such a terrible fit in OKC that they still finished higher than us last season with a terrible bench and Roberson going down. And Melo was a big factor in their 2nd half push, but you won't even acknowledge that because it goes against your biased argument. Okay he didnt have a good playoffs. Neither did PG and you would've happily paid him max dollars.
    So we've reached the point in the discussion where you just make stuff up, right?

    ''Neither did PG and you would've happily paid him max dollars.'' When did I say that? In this, or any other thread? At all? Ever? Never? Thought not.

    Melo is putting up more points than any of our SFs this year (not combined, at all, he's averaging 13/5/0.5 and they're averaging 15/5/3.6 combined. Obviously not great still but don't just make stuff up) but that's not the measure of a good player. If it was, the best player in the league every year would just be whoever scores the most. We all know that's not true.

    The fact is, let's do a comparison: in their last full year played,

    Melo: 12.7 PER, 50.3% TS, 3.7 WS, 0.71 WS/48, -3.8 BPM, -1.1 VORP, -5 Net Rating
    Darius Miller: 8.2 PER, 65% TS, 3.0 WS, 0.75 WS/48, -1 BPM, 0.5 VORP, -1 Net Rating

    So, actually, it's not as definitive as you seem to think it is. Miller had the higher TS%, the higher WS/48, the better BPM, VORP, and the better Net Rating. Melo had the better PER, and more win shares (cause he played more minutes and win-shares are cumulative but whatever, I'll still give you that).

    So actually yeah, the numbers do back up why he's not better than all three of our small forwards combined. You keep stressing that you mean this year, but I can't actually use his numbers from this year because you've already said that those don't count because it's only 11 games on a bad team and also his coach is trying to sabotage him.

    You are just totally, utterly, completely, fractally wrong on this.

  8. #108
    I'm curious how Daryl Morey is getting a free pass from the media on this going after Melo for a few years and when he finally gets him it bottom's out. If it were Dell Demps they would have crucified him.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by AstroFire View Post
    I'm curious how Daryl Morey is getting a free pass from the media on this going after Melo for a few years and when he finally gets him it bottom's out. If it were Dell Demps they would have crucified him.
    It's a reputation thing. Morey has made some good moves at times, and his team is winning, so everything he does gets looked at through rose tinted glasses. Demps made some bad moves a few years ago, and we didn't win for a while, so the media just assumes he has a head full of rocks.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Pull up the quotes from the thread then. There was a lot of discussion about Schroeder and it all revolved around ATL having to take back Hill AND give up an asset/s for us to take him because of his contract + legal issues.

    As far as which reporter... I believe the one who actually talked to the Pels, asked them about Melo specifically, and got the answer that they were not interested.

    Not some reporter who's words were, "I've heard the name of 3 teams." Especially not some reporter who was already refuted by Marc Stein himself saying the Lakers are done making moves right now in regards to Melo.

    So two different reporters are reporting that two of the three teams that this guy said he "heard" are not interested. Hmmm I wonder if he's credible...

    You're simply so desperate to try and defend Melo that you're trying to wrap whatever you can to do it. It won't play out son.

    If Melo is better in a system why has he not worked out at his last two systems? Who is so much better than Melo that he cannot get minutes with the Rockets?

    He made the Thunder worse. He made the Rockets worse. How is this so hard for you to compute?
    Who did Guillory talk too? A few people around the team? What does that mean? He could've talked to a waterboy. Why no other New Orleans reporter backed up his claim?

    He made the Thunder so bad they were better than us. I told you the deal in Houston and I firmly believe that. He's better than half our roster period. I guess you enjoy Randle coming off the bench with a bunch of scrubs that cant create their our shot. All that standing around on the perimeter. Darius Miller sucks on defense and hasnt cut more than 5 times in his career. Yet you praise him because he can knock down a few threes and nothing us. Same for Wes Johnson except he has average defense. Our SFs are garbage period. Melo would be an upgrade.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by AstroFire View Post
    I'm curious how Daryl Morey is getting a free pass from the media on this going after Melo for a few years and when he finally gets him it bottom's out. If it were Dell Demps they would have crucified him.
    Some people in this league get more passes than others. Morey was a trash GM up until the Harden trade but all is forgiven.

  12. #112
    I like Melo but Tracy McGrady is right. Melo is past his prime.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    So we've reached the point in the discussion where you just make stuff up, right?

    ''Neither did PG and you would've happily paid him max dollars.'' When did I say that? In this, or any other thread? At all? Ever? Never? Thought not.

    Melo is putting up more points than any of our SFs this year (not combined, at all, he's averaging 13/5/0.5 and they're averaging 15/5/3.6 combined. Obviously not great still but don't just make stuff up) but that's not the measure of a good player. If it was, the best player in the league every year would just be whoever scores the most. We all know that's not true.

    The fact is, let's do a comparison: in their last full year played,

    Melo: 12.7 PER, 50.3% TS, 3.7 WS, 0.71 WS/48, -3.8 BPM, -1.1 VORP, -5 Net Rating
    Darius Miller: 8.2 PER, 65% TS, 3.0 WS, 0.75 WS/48, -1 BPM, 0.5 VORP, -1 Net Rating

    So, actually, it's not as definitive as you seem to think it is. Miller had the higher TS%, the higher WS/48, the better BPM, VORP, and the better Net Rating. Melo had the better PER, and more win shares (cause he played more minutes and win-shares are cumulative but whatever, I'll still give you that).

    So actually yeah, the numbers do back up why he's not better than all three of our small forwards combined. You keep stressing that you mean this year, but I can't actually use his numbers from this year because you've already said that those don't count because it's only 11 games on a bad team and also his coach is trying to sabotage him.

    You are just totally, utterly, completely, fractally wrong on this.
    You just combined the stats of 3 players and came up with them averaging 1.1ppg more than the guy you say is trash, although you chose to round.

    If your argument is about to be Darius Miller is better than Melo than I dont even care to argue anymore. I watch basketball not advanced stats.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    You just combined the stats of 3 players and came up with them averaging 1.1ppg more than the guy you say is trash, although you chose to round.

    If your argument is about to be Darius Miller is better than Melo than I dont even care to argue anymore. I watch basketball not advanced stats.
    Oh grow up. I combined the stats because you had claimed that Melo was better than all three of our SFs combined. Of course it's stupid to combine player's stats like that, I only did it because you had made a claim about combined stats and I was showing you were wrong. You can't get uppity about me doing something dumb if I only did it because you made a stupid claim.

    No, for God's sake, for the fifty billionth time, nobody is saying that Miller is better than Melo in a vacuum.

    All that is being said is that basketball is not played in a vacuum, and that the needs of this team require Miller's skills more than Melo. Please, for the love of God, just read what I actually write before you just launch off into defending Melo's honour like your his dad or something.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Oh grow up. I combined the stats because you had claimed that Melo was better than all three of our SFs combined. Of course it's stupid to combine player's stats like that, I only did it because you had made a claim about combined stats and I was showing you were wrong. You can't get uppity about me doing something dumb if I only did it because you made a stupid claim.

    No, for God's sake, for the fifty billionth time, nobody is saying that Miller is better than Melo in a vacuum.

    All that is being said is that basketball is not played in a vacuum, and that the needs of this team require Miller's skills more than Melo. Please, for the love of God, just read what I actually write before you just launch off into defending Melo's honour like your his dad or something.
    I'm saying it's only 1.1ppg more. That's not great. If he's trash then what are the players you claiming are better?

    In a vacuum, in a system, in dreams Melo is better than half our roster. You're acting like Melo is some abysmal shooter. We need another player that can create his own shot more than we need someone who can stand behind the line. When Miller's shot is off he is completely useless. I think Gentry is a better coach than Dantoni and Donovan. I'm willing to bet he will put Melo in a better position to succeed.

    In what's loss in all this is that Melo is in the best shape he's been in since like Denver right now. He came back slim ready to go.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I'm saying it's only 1.1ppg more. That's not great. If he's trash then what are the players you claiming are better?

    In a vacuum, in a system, in dreams Melo is better than half our roster. You're acting like Melo is some abysmal shooter. We need another player that can create his own shot more than we need someone who can stand behind the line. When Miller's shot is off he is completely useless. I think Gentry is a better coach than Dantoni and Donovan. I'm willing to bet he will put Melo in a better position to succeed.

    In what's loss in all this is that Melo is in the best shape he's been in since like Denver right now. He came back slim ready to go.
    I'm genuinely just boggled. I'm sat looking at the screen, totally unsure of what world I'm living in.

    You have just totally missed the point about context, again. For like, the twentieth time between Mythrol and I.

    Melo IS an abysmal shooter. He is a career 34% 3 point shooter. That is NOT GOOD. By any metric. That is below league average. He is, and always has been sub-par at shooting the three.

    You need a player that can create his own shot. Cool, if you've got a time machine that can take us back to 2008 then Melo will be that guy for us. Hell, I'll even take it going back to just 2013. But Melo right now gets 90.5% of his threes assisted. In fact, for his career, 79% of his threes are assisted. He cannot get his own shot from 3. Can't now, couldn't last year, couldn't the year before, couldn't in 2008, couldn't in 2003. Sure, he only gets 43% of his mid range shots assisted, but we do not NEED another guy shooting midrange shots: AD, Jrue, Randle, Mirotic, and Moore all shoot mid-range shots well!

    When Miller isn't scoring, he's pretty close to useless. Yep. Tell me what it is that Carmelo Anthony does when he's not scoring? He blowing up the world with that 0.5 assists per game? Ripping down boards? No. And again, you know it.

    ''what's loss in all this is that Melo is in the best shape he's been in since like Denver right now.'' Cool, and he's still being sub-par for today's NBA. What does that tell you? Best shape he's been in, in a DECADE, and he's still mediocre at best!

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Who did Guillory talk too? A few people around the team? What does that mean? He could've talked to a waterboy. Why no other New Orleans reporter backed up his claim?

    He made the Thunder so bad they were better than us. I told you the deal in Houston and I firmly believe that. He's better than half our roster period. I guess you enjoy Randle coming off the bench with a bunch of scrubs that cant create their our shot. All that standing around on the perimeter. Darius Miller sucks on defense and hasnt cut more than 5 times in his career. Yet you praise him because he can knock down a few threes and nothing us. Same for Wes Johnson except he has average defense. Our SFs are garbage period. Melo would be an upgrade.
    Your first mistake is comparing Melo to our SFs. He is too slow to play SF anymore. Melo hasn't played SF in two years. Every PF on our team is better than Melo.

    As far as who Guillory talked to he said specifically people with the team. Who did your guy talk to that you're so willing to believe?!?! Kushner literally retweeted Guillory's Melo tweet and they are the two main beat writers in all of Nola that cover the Pels. Again, who is your guy? Not only that but Marc Stein, you know a pretty well known reporter for the NBA, came out and already said the Lakers aren't making another move in regards to Melo. So it's not just Will saying this guy is wrong. He got 2 of the 3 teams wrong because people who actually cover those teams have come out and said those teams weren't after Melo. You're the only one so desperate that you'd believe a guy that is contradicting two separate real team reporters.

    If he made the Thunder better why did they get rid of him? It's the same song and dance with you. So in love with Melo that you can't see the obvious truth.

  18. #118
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Reread the tweet. There's absolutely nothing vague about it.

    https://twitter.com/WillGuillory/sta...304413186?s=19

    He literally says: "I can report the Pelicans won't have any interest in Carmelo Anthony if/when he becomes available."

    He simply doesn't want to out his sources but he is anything other than vague. You can't get a much more definitive statement than what he said.
    I cannot access twitter from work, but the quote I read was that he talked to a few people around the team, not that he got the info from the team. Either way, it would shock me if the Pels even considered him. If they do, it would show that Dell is getting desperate.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I cannot access twitter from work, but the quote I read was that he talked to a few people around the team, not that he got the info from the team. Either way, it would shock me if the Pels even considered him. If they do, it would show that Dell is getting desperate.
    People are reading too much into the word "around". He simply isn't outing sources because team people cannot talk about players on another team since it's be considered tampering.

    Will is an actual real reporter who follows the team. No way would he make such a definitive tweet on the subject if it wasnt positive of the info.

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