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Thread: Rockets to Cut Melo

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    He's decline from a superstar status. He hasnt sucked, peoples expectations have been too high. I will gladly take 13-15ppg from Melo. We dont need him to be a star player.

    Also Ariza barely cut, I watched tons of rockets games last year. He camped on the 3pt line.

    Who on our team will stop Melo from getting minutes? Ian Clark? Solomon Hill? Wesley Johnson? Are these better players? Its established Melo isnt a star anymore. He even accepted a bench role so anybody saying that he still thinks he is, are speaking for a man that has shown different.
    He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it.

    You want 13-15ppg from Melo. Cool, what efficiency would you find that acceptable at? Is 13ppg at 38% good enough for you? 40?

    Given that Melo can't play the small forward position anymore due to his lack of shooting, general slowness, and inability to guard anyone, he's a power forward. So you're not asking whether Wesley Johnson should be getting SF minutes over him, because the answer there is a definitive ringing yes. The question is, at PF, who is he gonna get minutes over, AD, Mirotic, or Randle? And the obvious answer is none of them because he's a worse player than all three.

    Again, I repeat: at what point would you consider Melo's failures as a player (lack of defense, inefficiency, inability to pass, etc) a problem with him, and not the team? What would it take for you to look at him and say that he has become a bad player?
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    He's decline from a superstar status. He hasnt sucked, peoples expectations have been too high. I will gladly take 13-15ppg from Melo. We dont need him to be a star player.

    Also Ariza barely cut, I watched tons of rockets games last year. He camped on the 3pt line.

    Who on our team will stop Melo from getting minutes? Ian Clark? Solomon Hill? Wesley Johnson? Are these better players? Its established Melo isnt a star anymore. He even accepted a bench role so anybody saying that he still thinks he is, are speaking for a man that has shown different.
    come on now...clark,,hill and johnson do the things we need on our team and thats move,,run,,attempt to play defense,,,2 of them make shots,,,they cut,,,they know their role and dont complain about playing time.....hell,,johnson and clark can get you 13-15 pts combined and more as the season goes without messing up the team flow......

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it.

    You want 13-15ppg from Melo. Cool, what efficiency would you find that acceptable at? Is 13ppg at 38% good enough for you? 40?

    Given that Melo can't play the small forward position anymore due to his lack of shooting, general slowness, and inability to guard anyone, he's a power forward. So you're not asking whether Wesley Johnson should be getting SF minutes over him, because the answer there is a definitive ringing yes. The question is, at PF, who is he gonna get minutes over, AD, Mirotic, or Randle? And the obvious answer is none of them because he's a worse player than all three.

    Again, I repeat: at what point would you consider Melo's failures as a player (lack of defense, inefficiency, inability to pass, etc) a problem with him, and not the team? What would it take for you to look at him and say that he has become a bad player?
    "He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends****it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it."

    Do you have proof of this?

    I'm not accepting the opinion on SF's of a front office who hasnt been able to bring in an adequate one since Trevor Ariza, and that was before Ariza became a shooter; with all due respect to Demps and company. Melo can definitely still play the 3, he is not slow, and he definitely doesn't lack shooting.

    Rockets are 26th in the league on offense, how is Melo getting all the blame that's wild.

    Again it's a minimum deal, and you can point out all of Melos flaws. And he still is a better SF than Wes Johnson and Solo. So all that is moot. It's worth a shot imo.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    come on now...clark,,hill and johnson do the things we need on our team and thats move,,run,,attempt to play defense,,,2 of them make shots,,,they cut,,,they know their role and dont complain about playing time.....hell,,johnson and clark can get you 13-15 pts combined and more as the season goes without messing up the team flow......
    The rhetoric that Melo is uninterested in playing defense is completely founded by people who haven't watched more than 2 rockets games this season. Their fans dont agree. Again it's a minimum deal. Its early in the season. He can literally be cut after 10-15 games if it doesnt work out, and we wont even remember we had him on the team.

  5. #30
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    Ironic thing is Melo will end up with Warriors and will be great for them lol

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Well that's that. I still disagree
    Then you're disagreeing with 3 different playoff teams. Safe to say you're wrong.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnos 2 View Post
    Ironic thing is Melo will end up with Warriors and will be great for them lol
    Lol and then they will call him a ring chaser and a snake

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Then you're disagreeing with 3 different playoff teams. Safe to say you're wrong.
    I'm okay with being wrong if its proven to be that way. But didnt the whole league write off Lance Stephenson?

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    "He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends****it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it."

    Do you have proof of this?

    I'm not accepting the opinion on SF's of a front office who hasnt been able to bring in an adequate one since Trevor Ariza, and that was before Ariza became a shooter; with all due respect to Demps and company. Melo can definitely still play the 3, he is not slow, and he definitely doesn't lack shooting.

    Rockets are 26th in the league on offense, how is Melo getting all the blame that's wild.

    Again it's a minimum deal, and you can point out all of Melos flaws. And he still is a better SF than Wes Johnson and Solo. So all that is moot. It's worth a shot imo.
    My proof is that he spent a full year in OKC refusing point blank to come off the bench, and it's only when he got let go by OKC, then dumped by Atlanta that he went to Houston where he was saying as late as September 25th that had not "had that conversation with anybody yet" about a bench role. The best friend I was talking about was CP3 and you know it.

    Melo can't play the 3. I'm sorry if you still think he can, but he can't. He's too slow. You say he isn't slow, all I can say is watch the games. Last year in OKC the team played at a below 100 pace whenever he was on the floor. Houston has been playing less seven-seconds-or-less this season with Melo.

    ''He definitely doesn't lack shooting''. He's shooting 32% from three this year, shot 35% the two years before that, shot 33% the year before that, and shot 34% the year before that. This is a career 34% three point shooter, who has been declining over the last 5 years. He can't shoot. Sorry if it's inconvenient, but he can't. He hasn't shot 45% from the field in general since 2013-14.

    ''How is Melo getting all the blame'' he's not. The team in general is underperforming, but acting like Melo isn't a part of that failure is a complete blindness and unwillingness to accept what's happening. Harden is underperforming too, but his net rating is still neutral at +0. Not a positive, not at all, but when he plays the team is staying afloat. Chris Paul is playing well below his usual standard, but he's still giving out 8 assists a game, and has a positive VORP and BPM, while also having a +0 net rating. They're both underperforming, but when they are on the court the Rockets are a mediocre team. They aren't scoring heavily, but they aren't bleeding points either. They are neutral presences.

    Melo, by contrast, is a net negative. His net rating is -10 right now. When he is on the floor they are bleeding points. He isn't scoring either, averaging 13 points on 40% from the field and 32% from three. He isn't getting to the FT line, and he isn't playmaking either. Rockets suck in general, but Melo is a standout poor performer even amongst that mess. In a way, that's impressive.

    He is not a better SF for our system than Wes, because Wes moves off ball, passes well, doesn't care about getting shots up, and plays hard on defense. Don't know why you're mentioning Solo when he hasn't even played in 3 games and it's pretty clear that the team isn't interested in playing him either. If your argument is that Melo is better than a guy who doesn't even play 5 minutes a game, then sure, but that's a backhanded compliment if I ever heard one.

    Again, I am really trying to get an answer here. Fourth time lucky, I hope: at what point do you attribute Melo's struggling to himself? How bad does he have to be before you accept that his poor play is a result of himself, rather than the coach or his team-mates, or the system, or whatever? Where does your tolerance stop?

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    The rhetoric that Melo is uninterested in playing defense is completely founded by people who haven't watched more than 2 rockets games this season. Their fans dont agree. Again it's a minimum deal. Its early in the season. He can literally be cut after 10-15 games if it doesnt work out, and we wont even remember we had him on the team.
    That is literally what is happening right now and you're saying they're wrong

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    The rhetoric that Melo is uninterested in playing defense is completely founded by people who haven't watched more than 2 rockets games this season. Their fans dont agree. Again it's a minimum deal. Its early in the season. He can literally be cut after 10-15 games if it doesnt work out, and we wont even remember we had him on the team.
    i wanted melo b4 he went to OKC....the rockets is bad on defense as a whole....melo just cant do what he used to do....imo its just not worth the time to sign him and mess up the team chemistry to find out if he still got it......when healthy gentry has a 8 man rotation with miller and johnson at the SF spot off the bench and those 8 can ball....i just dont see melo as that player to mess the rotation up on a still got it audition....

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    My proof is that he spent a full year in OKC refusing point blank to come off the bench, and it's only when he got let go by OKC, then dumped by Atlanta that he went to Houston where he was saying as late as September 25th that had not "had that conversation with anybody yet" about a bench role. The best friend I was talking about was CP3 and you know it.

    Melo can't play the 3. I'm sorry if you still think he can, but he can't. He's too slow. You say he isn't slow, all I can say is watch the games. Last year in OKC the team played at a below 100 pace whenever he was on the floor. Houston has been playing less seven-seconds-or-less this season with Melo.

    ''He definitely doesn't lack shooting''. He's shooting 32% from three this year, shot 35% the two years before that, shot 33% the year before that, and shot 34% the year before that. This is a career 34% three point shooter, who has been declining over the last 5 years. He can't shoot. Sorry if it's inconvenient, but he can't. He hasn't shot 45% from the field in general since 2013-14.

    ''How is Melo getting all the blame'' he's not. The team in general is underperforming, but acting like Melo isn't a part of that failure is a complete blindness and unwillingness to accept what's happening. Harden is underperforming too, but his net rating is still neutral at +0. Not a positive, not at all, but when he plays the team is staying afloat. Chris Paul is playing well below his usual standard, but he's still giving out 8 assists a game, and has a positive VORP and BPM, while also having a +0 net rating. They're both underperforming, but when they are on the court the Rockets are a mediocre team. They aren't scoring heavily, but they aren't bleeding points either. They are neutral presences.

    Melo, by contrast, is a net negative. His net rating is -10 right now. When he is on the floor they are bleeding points. He isn't scoring either, averaging 13 points on 40% from the field and 32% from three. He isn't getting to the FT line, and he isn't playmaking either. Rockets suck in general, but Melo is a standout poor performer even amongst that mess. In a way, that's impressive.

    He is not a better SF for our system than Wes, because Wes moves off ball, passes well, doesn't care about getting shots up, and plays hard on defense. Don't know why you're mentioning Solo when he hasn't even played in 3 games and it's pretty clear that the team isn't interested in playing him either. If your argument is that Melo is better than a guy who doesn't even play 5 minutes a game, then sure, but that's a backhanded compliment if I ever heard one.

    Again, I am really trying to get an answer here. Fourth time lucky, I hope: at what point do you attribute Melo's struggling to himself? How bad does he have to be before you accept that his poor play is a result of himself, rather than the coach or his team-mates, or the system, or whatever? Where does your tolerance stop?
    Again it's a minimum deal. If it doesnt work out. He can be cut in less than 10 games. No harm no foul.

    His decline is a result of himself, but I wouldnt say poor play because he's not terrible. He just isnt old Melo. Rockets secretly wanted Melo to come in and average 20+ppg and when that didnt happen, he became the scapegoat.

    Let Gentry and the team sit down with him, and explain some games he may play less than 15 minutes a game. If he agrees bring him in. If he ends up being a regular part of the rotation we got a steal. If he doesnt, we cut him and back at square one without the loss of any assets. There's no losses taken by bringing him in.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    That is literally what is happening right now and you're saying they're wrong
    I never thought Melo would be a good fit in Houston. I knew they would struggle

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I'm okay with being wrong if its proven to be that way. But didnt the whole league write off Lance Stephenson?
    No. We even had him on our team.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    i wanted melo b4 he went to OKC....the rockets is bad on defense as a whole....melo just cant do what he used to do....imo its just not worth the time to sign him and mess up the team chemistry to find out if he still got it......when healthy gentry has a 8 man rotation with miller and johnson at the SF spot off the bench and those 8 can ball....i just dont see melo as that player to mess the rotation up on a still got it audition....
    I can respect that. I think it's worth it. If that's the 8 man rotation going into the playoffs we're in trouble.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    No. We even had him on our team.
    We signed him like a week before training camp on a minimum deal. The entire league wrote him off.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Again it's a minimum deal. If it doesnt work out. He can be cut in less than 10 games. No harm no foul.

    His decline is a result of himself, but I wouldnt say poor play because he's not terrible. He just isnt old Melo. Rockets secretly wanted Melo to come in and average 20+ppg and when that didnt happen, he became the scapegoat.

    Let Gentry and the team sit down with him, and explain some games he may play less than 15 minutes a game. If he agrees bring him in. If he ends up being a regular part of the rotation we got a steal. If he doesnt, we cut him and back at square one without the loss of any assets. There's no losses taken by bringing him in.
    What do you consider terrible? If less than 15ppg on barely 40% from the field with a -10 net rating, negative BPM and VORP, a sub average PER, a sub average TS%, etc, isn't terrible, what is? Does he have to average 5ppg on 25% from the field with a 150 defensive rating before he qualifies as terrible?

    We do lose something by taking him in: cohesion. We're 12 games in to the season, and we're a .500 team. We need to be more than that. Say we add Melo, for a sample size of another 12 games before re-evaluating his performance. We disrupt our rotations by bringing in a player who is at best a 50/50 shot of being decent. If he sucks, we risk losing more games than we can afford over that period of time, while also taking minutes from players like Johnson who have already proven themselves to be decent pieces in our system. If he's good, which is very unlikely at this point, then sure it all works out, but the evidence tells us that that's not likely, and we risk falling behind in the rankings as well as alienating our other players if he's bad.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    What do you consider terrible? If less than 15ppg on barely 40% from the field with a -10 net rating, negative BPM and VORP, a sub average PER, a sub average TS%, etc, isn't terrible, what is? Does he have to average 5ppg on 25% from the field with a 150 defensive rating before he qualifies as terrible?

    We do lose something by taking him in: cohesion. We're 12 games in to the season, and we're a .500 team. We need to be more than that. Say we add Melo, for a sample size of another 12 games before re-evaluating his performance. We disrupt our rotations by bringing in a player who is at best a 50/50 shot of being decent. If he sucks, we risk losing more games than we can afford over that period of time, while also taking minutes from players like Johnson who have already proven themselves to be decent pieces in our system. If he's good, which is very unlikely at this point, then sure it all works out, but the evidence tells us that that's not likely, and we risk falling behind in the rankings as well as alienating our other players if he's bad.
    It's worth it imo. I dont see it messing up the cohesion in any significant way. Its November not February. It's better than making a trade, giving up assets and seeing if it works out. It's a minimum deal. Did Okafor getting minutes mess up cohesion? Did Solo going to the bench mess up cohesion? Nobody is going to remember November-mid December come April. Heck, alot of our team didnt even wake up until January last season.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    We signed him like a week before training camp on a minimum deal. The entire league wrote him off.
    Never thought I'd see someome so desperate to defend Melo that they'd try and bring Lance Stephenson into the discuss.

    Shows just how far Melo has fallen. LOL

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    It's worth it imo. I dont see it messing up the cohesion in any significant way. Its November not February. It's better than making a trade, giving up assets and seeing if it works out. It's a minimum deal. Did Okafor getting minutes mess up cohesion? Did Solo going to the bench mess up cohesion? Nobody is going to remember November-mid December come April. Heck, alot of our team didnt even wake up until January last season.
    When Okafor came in, it was a last ditch effort to find someone to soak up minutes after a major injury. He hadn't been in the league for a while, and was a totally humbled vet who was there to rebound and play defense. That's a lot different to a career scorer who can't play defense, has had historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role, and who has declined in his only elite skill.

    It's November, but this is a season where we MUST make the playoffs, and where it's going to be a tight race. Games lost in November can mean missing the playoffs. We've already lost too many games this early, frankly, we can't afford to potentially throw away another handful just on the off-chance that Melo might not be quite as terrible here as he's been elsewhere.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I can respect that. I think it's worth it. If that's the 8 man rotation going into the playoffs we're in trouble.
    come on playa,,we all know that come deadline time,,we will be trying to pull a trade off for the playoffs...my wish list is harrison barnes...

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    When Okafor came in, it was a last ditch effort to find someone to soak up minutes after a major injury. He hadn't been in the league for a while, and was a totally humbled vet who was there to rebound and play defense. That's a lot different to a career scorer who can't play defense, has had historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role, and who has declined in his only elite skill.

    It's November, but this is a season where we MUST make the playoffs, and where it's going to be a tight race. Games lost in November can mean missing the playoffs. We've already lost too many games this early, frankly, we can't afford to potentially throw away another handful just on the off-chance that Melo might not be quite as terrible here as he's been elsewhere.
    I was talking about Jahlil. We should've kept Mek.

    11 games is not historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role. Wes Johnson have good games against Phoenix and Chicago and all of a sudden he a revelation lol. That dude is 31 years old. He's going to struggle against real teams. Or I guess he's turned his career around after being "historically" trash. Ironic.

    I doubt Gentry will play Melo to the detriment of losing games. If that's the case Frank would be playing over Clark until he figured it out. It's worth it imo, there's nothing else on the market and this team has major holes. It's a minimum deal.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by 6warddude View Post
    come on playa,,we all know that come deadline time,,we will be trying to pull a trade off for the playoffs...my wish list is harrison barnes...
    Yeah so we're messing up that 8 man rotation regardless. Might as well take a shot at a low risk free agent before trading actual assets. I would like Barnes as well but that's gon require a pick. Melo wouldnt stop us from making that trade if it came available.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    I was talking about Jahlil. We should've kept Mek.

    11 games is not historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role. Wes Johnson have good games against Phoenix and Chicago and all of a sudden he a revelation lol. That dude is 31 years old. He's going to struggle against real teams. Or I guess he's turned his career around after being "historically" trash. Ironic.

    I doubt Gentry will play Melo to the detriment of losing games. If that's the case Frank would be playing over Clark until he figured it out. It's worth it imo, there's nothing else on the market and this team has major holes. It's a minimum deal.
    Wes isn't a revelation at all, but he's capable. He's been a good defender in general for years, and that's all we need: someone who can defend with tenacity and take the open shots. We have a guy who can put up 30 a night, we have three other guys who can all put up 20 any given night, and we have another two guys who can put up 10-15 any given night. Our offense does not need help. Our biggest issue is our defense. Wes helps with that, Melo doesn't. That's it, point blank.

    If Gentry won't play Melo if he's losing us games, then he's not worth signing at all, because historical evidence suggests that's all he'll do. Any new player, especially a high usage one like Melo has always been (still has a 20+% usage rate in Houston) takes time to adjust to a new team. If we lose even 2 or 3 games due to his struggles adjusting, he won't touch the court again. IN that case, it's been a waste of time and money.

    The team has holes. Those holes are precisely the holes that Melo can not, will not, and never has been capable of filling.

  25. #50
    Man you really have an obsession with Melo huh good god

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