NBA Free Agency

[UNO Gracias]

Only 2 teams have never given out a $100 million contract: The Chicago Bulls and the Utah Jazz.

[Pelicanidae]

A guy you concede is a top 5 shooting guard in the league is just solid? Sure, the advanced statistics you selectively decided to use could be utilized to paint his shortcomings as they exist now, even though, as you pointed out, those numbers are skewed by team success. But do they also support the position that he won't improve as a basketball player and become even more valuable to his team? To me, paying a 21 year old who is arguably a top 5 shooting guard already 30m per is a sensible investment, regardless of how the organization ultimately fills out the rest of the roster (though I am a huge Josh Jackson believer and Ayton could become a stud).

Those stats weren't picked selectively in order to cherry pick the point, they were picked selectively because my post was already too long and I didn't want to add more. What more do you need? How BPM has been negative every year of his career, his VORP has been negative two years of his career and barely positive for the first time this year, etc etc. Go check for yourself, it's not cherry picking: all of his advanced stats are bad.

There's no certainty that he won't improve. Like I said, three years from now maybe he's fixed his issues and the contract looks good and I'm wrong. Totally possible. I just get the feeling he won't. That's a subjective feeling I get from watching him play. You might disagree and that's fine, only time will tell.

[tyler]

Those stats weren't picked selectively in order to cherry pick the point, they were picked selectively because my post was already too long and I didn't want to add more. What more do you need? How BPM has been negative every year of his career, his VORP has been negative two years of his career and barely positive for the first time this year, etc etc. Go check for yourself, it's not cherry picking: all of his advanced stats are bad.

There's no certainty that he won't improve. Like I said, three years from now maybe he's fixed his issues and the contract looks good and I'm wrong. Totally possible. I just get the feeling he won't. That's a subjective feeling I get from watching him play. You might disagree and that's fine, only time will tell.

I would gladly take booker on this team... I mean to be honest I can’t really much about him because the negative is probably because of the team he is on. Put him on the pels and I bet he would flourish.

[JunkHead]

Warriors free agent Zaza Pachulia has agreed to a one-year, $2.4M deal with the Detroit Pistons, league sources tell Yahoo.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 8, 2018

CHAMPIONSHIP!

[PelsFan2313]

Those stats weren't picked selectively in order to cherry pick the point, they were picked selectively because my post was already too long and I didn't want to add more. What more do you need? How BPM has been negative every year of his career, his VORP has been negative two years of his career and barely positive for the first time this year, etc etc. Go check for yourself, it's not cherry picking: all of his advanced stats are bad.

There's no certainty that he won't improve. Like I said, three years from now maybe he's fixed his issues and the contract looks good and I'm wrong. Totally possible. I just get the feeling he won't. That's a subjective feeling I get from watching him play. You might disagree and that's fine, only time will tell.

Out of curiousity, how much do you think he is worth right now? Not what he would get in the market, since that's based on projection, demand, and availability. But personally speaking, for what he currently brings to the table, what number would you arrive at?

[Mythrol]

Lillard is bad on defense too....

And I'd still love to have him on the team. Booker is similar to that for me.

[Pelicanidae]

Out of curiousity, how much do you think he is worth right now? Not what he would get in the market, since that's based on projection, demand, and availability. But personally speaking, for what he currently brings to the table, what number would you arrive at?

No more than Jrue, who's getting paid, which is $26m essentially.

[msusousaphone]

For as much as some people hate Jrue's current contract, he would be making way more if he were just signing this month. People would die.

[SmontySwilliams]

For as much as some people hate Jrue's current contract, he would be making way more if he were just signing this month. People would die.

agreed

[Mythrol]

Yeah i assume Philly would throw a max at him.

[JunkHead]

#Bucks are signing Brook Lopez, per source.

— Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) July 8, 2018

No actual info yet.

[DaPelFromHell]

My top 5 possible free agent small forward wish list:

1. Rodney Hood: my dream scenario, just doubt it could happen or afford him

2. James Ennis: my backup to Hood, likely more realistic but not the consistent 3 point shooter we need like Hood. Better defensively though

3. Nick Young: good shooter and that’s about it. But with a possible Payton, Jrue backcourt with Randle at the 4 then a shooter is needed. But if Jrue & Moore start in the backcourt a shooter isn’t needed as badly

4. Shabazz Muhammad: has struggled in the league, but is still young with offensive talent. Maybe he could turn it around with a legitimate shot at a starting spot which he hasn’t really had yet. He could be had for the vet minimum.

5. Corey Brewer: decent wing defender that averaged 10 ppg after joining Thunder last year. Older but could bring some vet experience that we lost with Rondo. Not ideal considering his age and not being the greatest of shooters. Likely had for Vet minimum

Honorable mention: Vince Carter: JOKE, but I’d love to see him play for the Pels since he is one of my favorite players of all time. If we had the space to fill one last spot and could use a vet presence I’d love to have him as a player coach that could give us a few minutes here and there.

If we can’t find a decent trade and had to go with a free agent, I would be happy with one of those 5. Preferably the first two and not so much the last 3. But I would take either of the other 3 instead of adding nothing. Unless we gonna roll with a 3 guard lineup again, but I rather not. Hoping for a Payton, Jrue backcourt with Moore off the bench. If that is the case we could use a shooter like Hood, Young, & maybe Muhammad. If we roll with a Jrue, Moore backcourt than Ennis & Brewer may be better fits. I just hope we don’t roll with just Hill and Miller as our small forwards. But with the money he’s making & having a healthy offseason, Demps may be rolling with Hill as the starter.

[UNO Gracias]

My top 5 possible free agent small forward wish list:

1. Rodney Hood: my dream scenario, just doubt it could happen or afford him

2. James Ennis: my backup to Hood, likely more realistic but not the consistent 3 point shooter we need like Hood. Better defensively though

3. Nick Young: good shooter and that’s about it. But with a possible Payton, Jrue backcourt with Randle at the 4 then a shooter is needed. But if Jrue & Moore start in the backcourt a shooter isn’t needed as badly

4. Shabazz Muhammad: has struggled in the league, but is still young with offensive talent. Maybe he could turn it around with a legitimate shot at a starting spot which he hasn’t really had yet. He could be had for the vet minimum.

5. Corey Brewer: decent wing defender that averaged 10 ppg after joining Thunder last year. Older but could bring some vet experience that we lost with Rondo. Not ideal considering his age and not being the greatest of shooters. Likely had for Vet minimum

Honorable mention: Vince Carter: JOKE, but I’d love to see him play for the Pels since he is one of my favorite players of all time. If we had the space to fill one last spot and could use a vet presence I’d love to have him as a player coach that could give us a few minutes here and there.

If we can’t find a decent trade and had to go with a free agent, I would be happy with one of those 5. Preferably the first two and not so much the last 3. But I would take either of the other 3 instead of adding nothing. Unless we gonna roll with a 3 guard lineup again, but I rather not. Hoping for a Payton, Jrue backcourt with Moore off the bench. If that is the case we could use a shooter like Hood, Young, & maybe Muhammad. If we roll with a Jrue, Moore backcourt than Ennis & Brewer may be better fits. I just hope we don’t roll with just Hill and Miller as our small forwards. But with the money he’s making & having a healthy offseason, Demps may be rolling with Hill as the starter.

We all know that those guys are going to sign, but the question now is, for how much. Money is drying up, and some of this talent will pull a Boogie and take less than their value on prove it deals. I imagine we will get lucky in that regard and be able to land a sf that way.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

My top 5 possible free agent small forward wish list:

1. Rodney Hood: my dream scenario, just doubt it could happen or afford him

2. James Ennis: my backup to Hood, likely more realistic but not the consistent 3 point shooter we need like Hood. Better defensively though

3. Nick Young: good shooter and that’s about it. But with a possible Payton, Jrue backcourt with Randle at the 4 then a shooter is needed. But if Jrue & Moore start in the backcourt a shooter isn’t needed as badly

4. Shabazz Muhammad: has struggled in the league, but is still young with offensive talent. Maybe he could turn it around with a legitimate shot at a starting spot which he hasn’t really had yet. He could be had for the vet minimum.

5. Corey Brewer: decent wing defender that averaged 10 ppg after joining Thunder last year. Older but could bring some vet experience that we lost with Rondo. Not ideal considering his age and not being the greatest of shooters. Likely had for Vet minimum

Honorable mention: Vince Carter: JOKE, but I’d love to see him play for the Pels since he is one of my favorite players of all time. If we had the space to fill one last spot and could use a vet presence I’d love to have him as a player coach that could give us a few minutes here and there.

If we can’t find a decent trade and had to go with a free agent, I would be happy with one of those 5. Preferably the first two and not so much the last 3. But I would take either of the other 3 instead of adding nothing. Unless we gonna roll with a 3 guard lineup again, but I rather not. Hoping for a Payton, Jrue backcourt with Moore off the bench. If that is the case we could use a shooter like Hood, Young, & maybe Muhammad. If we roll with a Jrue, Moore backcourt than Ennis & Brewer may be better fits. I just hope we don’t roll with just Hill and Miller as our small forwards. But with the money he’s making & having a healthy offseason, Demps may be rolling with Hill as the starter.

Rodney Hood is RFA.
They would have to offer 4M to get him from the CAVS.

My money is on Ennis.

[GuardianAngel25]

A guy you concede is a top 5 shooting guard in the league is just solid? Sure, the advanced statistics you selectively decided to use could be utilized to paint his shortcomings as they exist now, even though, as you pointed out, those numbers are skewed by team success. But do they also support the position that he won't improve as a basketball player and become even more valuable to his team? To me, paying a 21 year old who is arguably a top 5 shooting guard already 30m per is a sensible investment, regardless of how the organization ultimately fills out the rest of the roster (though I am a huge Josh Jackson believer and Ayton could become a stud).

I stopped reading after the first few sentences. Don’t care go read a bunch of selective stats so someone can try to win an argument. You can find stats that make any player in the NBA not look so great. This kid is arguably the 2nd best SG ahead of Klay Thompson and if in the same role on the Warriors would no doubt be there. He is only 21 years old but somehow his deal is going to be rough? He is a flat out stud and is still 4+ years away from the prime of his career. None of the guys ranked ahead of him were even close to he level he is playing at around the same age. I will gladly come revisit this in a couple of years and see how “rough” his deal was. I would guarantee all 30 GMs in the NBA would gladly pay him the max while giving up a 1st round pick. If all 30 has the choice of Derozan, Beal, or Booker I would bet house all 30 go with Booker.

[GuardianAngel25]

I'm tripping more off the fact that the new post-rookie Max is starting at $30M/year now. That's crazy

It’s all relative to what the cap is. I know you know that but some don’t seem to fully grasp contracts are much bigger and then they were a few years ago and still accounting for the same % of the cap. It’s hard to get use to because they seem to rise a lot every couple of years. Crazy that not long ago we gave Eric Gordon I believe the max at $16 million and the damn MLE is almost that haha.

[GuardianAngel25]

Would love to work out a sign and trade with the Cavs for Hood. Similar to the Bulls trade for Mirotic I think we could possibly snag him sending Hill out along with a 1st round pick. I would gladly pay him what Hill was getting. I don’t think it will cost that much and he will likely be likely be long for a 2 year deal with a player option or something for year 3 so he can get that big pay day. I just think he’s such a good fit for what we need and is so close to taking that next step in his game with this being the year imo he puts it all together. Adding Hood and Randle to our team in the playoffs is a huge upgrade. I would bet $ we don’t go into the season without adding a wing through trade. Evan Fournier is another player I really wish we would go after. Trade Moore and Diallo to the Magic for Fournier would be awesome. I don’t think he’s going to fetch much on the trade market but we will see. Fournier/Hood is a big upgrade over Moore/Hill.

[Pelicanidae]

I stopped reading after the first few sentences. Don’t care go read a bunch of selective stats so someone can try to win an argument. You can find stats that make any player in the NBA not look so great. This kid is arguably the 2nd best SG ahead of Klay Thompson and if in the same role on the Warriors would no doubt be there. He is only 21 years old but somehow his deal is going to be rough? He is a flat out stud and is still 4+ years away from the prime of his career. None of the guys ranked ahead of him were even close to he level he is playing at around the same age. I will gladly come revisit this in a couple of years and see how “rough” his deal was. I would guarantee all 30 GMs in the NBA would gladly pay him the max while giving up a 1st round pick. If all 30 has the choice of Derozan, Beal, or Booker I would bet house all 30 go with Booker.

If you stopped reading after a few sentences, why bother to reply? If you're not actually interested in the conversation, why continue it?

You cannot find stats that don't exist. For example, I provided multiple stats that show that Devin Booker is a shoddy defensive player. You cannot find those stats for, say, Kawhi Leonard, or AD, or Klay Thompson. You just can't, because they don't exist. You can argue that the stats are misleading, which I did actually point out myself in my original post, but the stats are what they are.

I agree, they weren't at the level he was when they were 21. But I'm not comparing them all aged 21. You said he was a top 3 shooting guard now, so I'm comparing them now.

Gladly revisit it in a few years and see how rough the deal looks, I don't care. I specifically said a bunch of times (although you wouldn't know, since you didn't bother to read it) that I could be completely wrong, and even went as far as to say that I hope I'm wrong on this subject. If I'm wrong, then I don't mind! Sometimes people are wrong, it happens, who cares.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Would love to work out a sign and trade with the Cavs for Hood. Similar to the Bulls trade for Mirotic I think we could possibly snag him sending Hill out along with a 1st round pick. I would gladly pay him what Hill was getting. I don’t think it will cost that much and he will likely be likely be long for a 2 year deal with a player option or something for year 3 so he can get that big pay day. I just think he’s such a good fit for what we need and is so close to taking that next step in his game with this being the year imo he puts it all together. Adding Hood and Randle to our team in the playoffs is a huge upgrade. I would bet $ we don’t go into the season without adding a wing through trade. Evan Fournier is another player I really wish we would go after. Trade Moore and Diallo to the Magic for Fournier would be awesome. I don’t think he’s going to fetch much on the trade market but we will see. Fournier/Hood is a big upgrade over Moore/Hill.

Why would the Cavs entertain a sign and trade for Hill?
A crap player and a top 20 pick for a player that may help them re-build?

Come on man....you know that's not going to happen now with Lebron gone.

[DaPelFromHell]

Would love to work out a sign and trade with the Cavs for Hood. Similar to the Bulls trade for Mirotic I think we could possibly snag him sending Hill out along with a 1st round pick. I would gladly pay him what Hill was getting. I don’t think it will cost that much and he will likely be likely be long for a 2 year deal with a player option or something for year 3 so he can get that big pay day. I just think he’s such a good fit for what we need and is so close to taking that next step in his game with this being the year imo he puts it all together. Adding Hood and Randle to our team in the playoffs is a huge upgrade. I would bet $ we don’t go into the season without adding a wing through trade. Evan Fournier is another player I really wish we would go after. Trade Moore and Diallo to the Magic for Fournier would be awesome. I don’t think he’s going to fetch much on the trade market but we will see. Fournier/Hood is a big upgrade over Moore/Hill.

I would love to add Hood for Hill & a 1st round pick. Just not sure the Cavs would. Hopefully they want to add as much picks as possible to be flexible in the draft for their rebuild. Not sure if I would make that move for Fournier though. I rather keep Moore & Diallo mainly cause of their contracts. I rather spend 10 million over the next 2 years for them two than spend 17 million over the next 3 years for Fournier. Depends on what Hood’s contract would look like for me to think about Fournier too. I think Diallo can be our 4th big man. We would have to sign another decent big if we traded him. I love Moore coming off the bench too. I think Frank Jackson will be a dam good 5th guard as well. We just need Hood and maybe another big unless Ajinca will play.

[AusPel]

Hood and Hill for a 1st rounder are you kidding me?

[Tinman]

Hood and Hill for a 1st rounder are you kidding me?

Dyslexic ? That's not what he said !

[AusPel]

Dyslexic ? That's not what he said !

Haha

Still don't like the trade

[msusousaphone]

Yeah. I think people saw an incredibly hampered rusty version of Hill and are making false comparisons to him being as bad as AA.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not comfortable with him being our starter for the season because of the risk he never finds himself again but if the guy gets back into form he's at least on Moore's level.

[msusousaphone]

We're also starting to throw out a lot of names that make us a slightly better team but do nothing to help us contend at all. I'm more in the camp or shooting for a big name like Hayward or Kawhi (yeah, unlikely) and if that doesn't happen, holding form until someone like that becomes available. I imagine Dell does the same. People were going crazy and all hope was lost until Boogie happened out of nowhere. Same thing last season, Boogie injured or not, Dell was attempting to add another good player and he waited a long time for Niko to become available. I could totally see us waiting a long time for something amazing to happen.

And Dell has provided. He's earned our patience.