2022 NBA Draft Lottery

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Do you really need that much shooting when you also have Zion Williamson though?

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Actually... having great shooting + Zion is pretty an unstoppable make up offensively. Pick your poison defend the perimeter or Zion. You can't do both.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Did y?all ignore how good the final 4 teams were defensively?

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We don't... but we are a top 11 unit that is only gonna get better while we are bottom barrel shooting team.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Did y’all ignore how good the final 4 teams were defensively?

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To your point, the finals team were both very, very, good at three point defense. Boston was first, I think and Golden State was third. Both were also good three point shooting teams. Boston 14th and Golden State 8th. But yes that stat with three point defense does really stand out.

But the problem with bringing in someone like Dyson to upgrade your three point defense, is having to ask if his offense is going to allow you to play him for menaingful minutes. Two of the Pels' that are going to play the highest minutes are CJ and BI. Both are ball dominant players. I suppose they can play without the ball, but they prefer not to. They're not going to sacrifice their dribble for a rookie who can't shoot. Our primary guard off the bench, Jose, is a ball dominant guard. Even Zion, in point Zion play, is a ball dominant player.

Dyson Daniels is a ball dominant guard. If you're worried about Mathurin getting significant minutes, then you really have to worry about Dyson getting significant minutes. At least Mathurin can start out his career in a position that he's comfortable with. Letting other players create and being availalbe for three point shooting.

I understand that most of you have a philosiphy that the draft shouldn't be used to fill immediate needs for the team. I get that. But I'm not sure that's a realistic option for the Pelicans. We're not going to get big free agents, even the talent we've brought in through trades is often fairly paltry. If you can get a promising rookie like Mathurin that can fill an immediate need, thus can get some minutes, and has room to grow, I think you take him.

If we're talking about Daniels vs. Sochan, I think the other issue is looking where on the court our defensive liabilities are. And unfortunately they seem to be concentrated in our front court. Zion and Bi are both subpar defenders. JV is a weak defender on the pick and roll. Look at how well Phoenix's bigs shot against our team. Which I think speaks for the need to jettison Jaxson and look for a defensive upgrade in the front court.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Dyson Daniels is a ball dominant guard. If you're worried about Mathurin getting significant minutes, then you really have to worry about Dyson getting significant minutes. At least Mathurin can start out his career in a position that he's comfortable with. Letting other players create and being availalbe for three point shooting.

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Lol you could've just said you haven't actually watched Daniels

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Originally Posted by AusPel

You can't really coach or instill certain basketball skills, no matter if you plugged 10,000 hours into them

You can fix shooting. Lonzo is a nice example. DeAndre Jordan became a pretty good free throw shooter being absolute pants

And what's the lagniappe? All the other lovely unteachable skills are still there.

AND

We don't need pick 8 to contribute to year 3, realistically

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Then lets get back NAW and just be a little more patient.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

To your point, the finals team were both very, very, good at three point defense. Boston was first, I think and Golden State was third. Both were also good three point shooting teams. Boston 14th and Golden State 8th. But yes that stat with three point defense does really stand out.

But the problem with bringing in someone like Dyson to upgrade your three point defense, is having to ask if his offense is going to allow you to play him for menaingful minutes. Two of the Pels' that are going to play the highest minutes are CJ and BI. Both are ball dominant players. I suppose they can play without the ball, but they prefer not to. They're not going to sacrifice their dribble for a rookie who can't shoot. Our primary guard off the bench, Jose, is a ball dominant guard. Even Zion, in point Zion play, is a ball dominant player.

Dyson Daniels is a ball dominant guard. If you're worried about Mathurin getting significant minutes, then you really have to worry about Dyson getting significant minutes. At least Mathurin can start out his career in a position that he's comfortable with. Letting other players create and being availalbe for three point shooting.

I understand that most of you have a philosiphy that the draft shouldn't be used to fill immediate needs for the team. I get that. But I'm not sure that's a realistic option for the Pelicans. We're not going to get big free agents, even the talent we've brought in through trades is often fairly paltry. If you can get a promising rookie like Mathurin that can fill an immediate need, thus can get some minutes, and has room to grow, I think you take him.

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The thing about Daniels is he contributes to the game more than just getting the ball. His biggest asset is his defensive prowess. Which is both fills an immediate need, and projects well for the future. And if we’re talking immediate, that’s the best way to get on the court with Willie. Also data shows the rookies don’t usually shoot well the first year regardless. Very rarely positive contributions their first year. And by that logic, if mathurin ain’t shootin well, he ain’t giving you anything. Focusing on the immediate topic for my last point

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Lol you could've just said you haven't actually watched Daniels

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I've watched more than I wanted to of the Ignite. Dyson likes to initiate his offense with the ball in his hands. He's not a catch and shoot guy. He likes to play in the pick and roll and he likes to drive to the basket. It's fairly easy to tell that he considers himself the point guard on the team, and his first instinct is to set up his teamates.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

We don't... but we are a top 11 unit that is only gonna get better while we are bottom barrel shooting team.

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You add Zion, you’re getting much better offensively. But worse defensively. If you look at our core players who will get majority of minutes, their strengths are on the offensive end.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

If we're talking about Daniels vs. Sochan, I think the other issue is looking where on the court our defensive liabilities are. And unfortunately they seem to be concentrated in our front court. Zion and Bi are both subpar defenders. JV is a weak defender on the pick and roll. Look at how well Phoenix's bigs shot against our team. Which I think speaks for the need to jettison Jaxson and look for a defensive upgrade in the front court.

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So you’re saying you prefer sochan?

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

I think this team is going to have to make a tough decision about Jax. He's not worth the money he wants to be paid, and he may never be worth the money.

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DISCLAIMER: Let me begin by saying I have been a huge JAX supporter from day one.

This said, I think JAX (an 8th pick) is going to find himself in the exact same position as JHart (a 30th pick) was in last year. Nobody will pony up the type of money he is looking for and he will have to settle for a contract that gives the Pelicans an out should he not progress (which is as likely as it is not).

Alas, no much God-given ability and the basketball IQ of a turnip.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

I've watched more than I wanted to of the Ignite. Dyson likes to initiate his offense with the ball in his hands. He's not a catch and shoot guy. He likes to play in the pick and roll and he likes to drive to the basket. It's fairly easy to tell that he considers himself the point guard on the team, and his first instinct is to set up his teamates.

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Your ball dominant comment just gave it away, unless you have a totally different definition of what ball dominant means

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

If we're talking about Daniels vs. Sochan, I think the other issue is looking where on the court our defensive liabilities are. And unfortunately they seem to be concentrated in our front court. Zion and Bi are both subpar defenders. JV is a weak defender on the pick and roll. Look at how well Phoenix's bigs shot against our team. Which I think speaks for the need to jettison Jaxson and look for a defensive upgrade in the front court.

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You can't always build the perfect team.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

The thing about Daniels is he contributes to the game more than just getting the ball. His biggest asset is his defensive prowess. Which is both fills an immediate need, and projects well for the future. And if we’re talking immediate, that’s the best way to get on the court with Willie. Also data shows the rookies don’t usually shoot well the first year regardless. Very rarely positive contributions their first year. And by that logic, if mathurin ain’t shootin well, he ain’t giving you anything. Focusing on the immediate topic for my last point

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I agree about his defensive ability. I just think his offense is going to be so limited that you're not going to be able to play him significant minutes. My biggest issue with him defensively is how he's going to handle the screening action in the NBA. He struggled with that, the few times anyone bothered to set a screen in the G league. For a guy that played Australian rules football, he didn't navigate the scrum very well in the G league.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Your ball dominant comment just gave it away, unless you have a totally different definition of what ball dominant means

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I'm not saying he's a ball hog. There's a difference. He is a selfless passer, but he likes to iniitate his offense whether passing or driving with the ball in his hands. BI and CJ aren't going to give him those opportunities.

For example, John Stockton was a ball dominant guard. No one's saying he was selfish. But you wouldn't want to pair him with another ball dominant guard.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

You add Zion, you’re getting much better offensively. But worse defensively. If you look at our core players who will get majority of minutes, their strengths are on the offensive end.

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We don't know what Zion is going to look like... It could be the exact opposite. Zion doesn't improve spacing. Having good shooters gives Zion the room to operate more effectively.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

I'm not saying he's a ball hog. There's a difference. He is a selfless passer, but he likes to iniitate his offense whether passing or driving with the ball in his hands. BI and CJ aren't going to give him those opportunities.

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He plays .5 basketball. If Willie could make a player in a lab, it would be Dyson Daniels

The only reason Mathurin wasn't more ball dominant is because he can't dribble

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

He plays .5 basketball. If Willie could make a player in a lab, it would be Dyson Daniels

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And he's going 7 :(

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Originally Posted by Taker597

We don't know what Zion is going to look like... It could be the exact opposite. Zion doesn't improve spacing. Having good shooters gives Zion the room to operate more effectively.

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The top 8 players who will get minutes this year for us are capable enough offensive players. Of those top 8, 3 of them I would consider above average defenders. And none offer rim protection. And not a great amount of defensive rebounding.

You want to build a balanced TEAM, not just offense. Zion rim presence is unreal. How poo he is on defense is also unreal. The real complement to him would be a good, active, high energy, smart defender who can also hit an open 3 and make the extra pass as opposed to the guy who just hits 3 pointers.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

You want to build a balanced TEAM, not just offense. Zion rim presence is unreal. How poo he is on defense is also unreal. The real complement to him would be a good, active, high energy, smart defender who can also hit an open 3 and make the extra pass as opposed to the guy who just hits 3 pointers.

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Zion isn't poo on defense, he's just been lazy

Also…which one of you guys is the one running over to TigerDroppings under different user names and misquoting/misrepresenting what I type here? And what do you get out of that for my own curiosity?

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

You want to build a balanced TEAM, not just offense. Zion rim presence is unreal. How poo he is on defense is also unreal. The real complement to him would be a good, active, high energy, smart defender who can also hit an open 3 and make the extra pass as opposed to the guy who just hits 3 pointers.

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It's so funny that Zion has got this label attached to him as being ''unreal'' when it comes to bad defense, when the full season he played he wasn't even close to being the worst defender on the team.

He's not a defensive plus right now - or at least, wasn't when he last played - that much is evident, but somehow that's morphed into this perception of him being the worst defender in basketball which is insane. He isn't even the worst defender in our starting lineup, given that CJ McCollum exists.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's so funny that Zion has got this label attached to him as being ''unreal'' when it comes to bad defense, when the full season he played he wasn't even close to being the worst defender on the team.

He's not a defensive plus right now - or at least, wasn't when he last played - that much is evident, but somehow that's morphed into this perception of him being the worst defender in basketball which is insane. He isn't even the worst defender in our starting lineup, given that CJ McCollum exists.

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There are two different bad defenders

Ones who are physically incapable but try

Ones who are physically capable but don’t

Zion gets flack because he was the latter and that’s far more disappointing