De'Andre Hunter

Printable View

02-25-2020, 03:04 PM
PaKwAn

De'Andre Hunter

Looking back at the trade we had with atlanta would you guys rather have hunter or NAW and Hayes? (I know we got rid of hill's contract with that trade as well) but looking at how hunter has played so far, he looks like a really good fit with this team especially with zion and ingram if we go small ball with zion at the 5 spot.. hayes and naw are still young and can still develop into good players.. but part of me would of loved to have hunter especially with our poor defense at the 3/4 spot.
02-25-2020, 03:29 PM
Pelicanidae

NAW and Hayes. Primarily for Hayes.

Hunter better be more developed than Hayes right now; he's 3 years older than Hayes is.

He's not actually been very good this year though. His issue is that while he was a good defender in college, he was primarily a good 1v1 defender, with the team scheme producing a lot of the 'team D' as it were. In the NBA, where 1v1 defense is much less important in general and team D becomes emphasised, Hunter's defense has not been nearly as good as a lot of his biggest fans hoped. He's averaging less than 1%BLK and barely 1%STL, and his rebounding has been poor too; 7%REB for a guy of his size is awful. Part of this is that he's playing on a bad defensive team overall, but it's not like he can't take any blame for it. His play recognition has been sub-par, and his footspeed has been bad. I've seen someone describe him as moving like a rusty version of the Kawhi-bot, and that's not far off truth :hihi:

The other primary aspect of his game was the 3pt shooting, and while there's still time for that to translate, it hasn't so far. He's shooting 34.9% from 3, which is okay but not worth writing home about; it's slightly below league average. Can't make his own shot either: 94.5% of his 3s have been assisted, and he's only shooting 59% at the rim, which is pretty bad for a forward.

All of this shows in his advanced metrics.

BPM: -4.5
VORP: -1.1
WS/48: 0.003
PER: 8.8
TS%: 52.1%
RPM: -0.71 (50th among small forwards)
PIPM: -1.88 (including -0.93 DPIPM)
EPM: -2.5 (341st in the league)

He's not been good, really, on defense or offense. Part of that is that he's on the Hawks, yes, but part of it is also his own failure to really create impact. That's not what you want at all from an older rookie; the entire point of drafting an older rookie is in the hopes that they are more likely to create impact more quickly rather than taking a few years to grow into it.
02-25-2020, 03:34 PM
As I See It

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

NAW and Hayes. Primarily for Hayes.

Hunter better be more developed than Hayes right now; he's 3 years older than Hayes is.

He's not actually been very good this year though. His issue is that while he was a good defender in college, he was primarily a good 1v1 defender, with the team scheme producing a lot of the 'team D' as it were. In the NBA, where 1v1 defense is much less important in general and team D becomes emphasised, Hunter's defense has not been nearly as good as a lot of his biggest fans hoped. He's averaging less than 1%BLK and barely 1%STL, and his rebounding has been poor too; 7%REB for a guy of his size is awful. Part of this is that he's playing on a bad defensive team overall, but it's not like he can't take any blame for it. His play recognition has been sub-par, and his footspeed has been bad. I've seen someone describe him as moving like a rusty version of the Kawhi-bot, and that's not far off truth :hihi:

The other primary aspect of his game was the 3pt shooting, and while there's still time for that to translate, it hasn't so far. He's shooting 34.9% from 3, which is okay but not worth writing home about; it's slightly below league average. Can't make his own shot either: 94.5% of his 3s have been assisted, and he's only shooting 59% at the rim, which is pretty bad for a forward.

All of this shows in his advanced metrics.

BPM: -4.5
VORP: -1.1
WS/48: 0.003
PER: 8.8
TS%: 52.1%
RPM: -0.71 (50th among small forwards)
PIPM: -1.88 (including -0.93 DPIPM)
EPM: -2.5 (341st in the league)

He's not been good, really, on defense or offense. Part of that is that he's on the Hawks, yes, but part of it is also his own failure to really create impact. That's not what you want at all from an older rookie; the entire point of drafting an older rookie is in the hopes that they are more likely to create impact more quickly rather than taking a few years to grow into it.

I'm really interested in your assessment in Hayes by comparison.
02-25-2020, 03:40 PM
Nola3

Don't forget we got Didi in the trade too. I do it again in a heartbeat.
02-25-2020, 03:50 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by As I See It

I'm really interested in your assessment in Hayes by comparison.

Hayes has also been a mixed bag but he's also 19 years old instead of 22, and has shown tangible growth throughout the season. Hayes in late December is a much improved player compared to Hayes in late October, whereas Hunter has not shown that same level of in-season growth.

Just for the fun of it, if you compare raw stats, here are Hayes' numbers:

STL% of 1.1% (identical to Hunter)
BLK% of 4.6% (more than 4x higher than Hunter)
REB% of 7.6% (still bad, but again, better than Hunter)
74.1% at the rim, which is +15% compared to Hunter

BPM: +0.2 (better than Hunter)
VORP: +0.5 (better than Hunter)
WS/48:+0.178 (way better than Hunter)
PER: 18.1 (more than double Hunter)
TS%:67.7% (obviously higher than Hunter, although of course Hayes doesn't shoot 3s)
RPM: -0.01, 33rd among Centres and again, higher than Hunter
PIPM:-0.03, better than Hunter by a large margin
EPM: -0.1, 161st in the NBA, nearly 200 spots above Hunter

While it's clear that Jaxson still has a long way to go, particularly from a physique standpoint but also in terms of versatility on defense and creating his own shot, he's been a much more productive and impactful NBA player in his role this year than Hunter has been in his.
02-25-2020, 04:20 PM
JJackisangry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Hayes has also been a mixed bag but he's also 19 years old instead of 22, and has shown tangible growth throughout the season. Hayes in late December is a much improved player compared to Hayes in late October, whereas Hunter has not shown that same level of in-season growth.

Just for the fun of it, if you compare raw stats, here are Hayes' numbers:

STL% of 1.1% (identical to Hunter)
BLK% of 4.6% (more than 4x higher than Hunter)
REB% of 7.6% (still bad, but again, better than Hunter)
74.1% at the rim, which is +15% compared to Hunter

BPM: +0.2 (better than Hunter)
VORP: +0.5 (better than Hunter)
WS/48:+0.178 (way better than Hunter)
PER: 18.1 (more than double Hunter)
TS%:67.7% (obviously higher than Hunter, although of course Hayes doesn't shoot 3s)
RPM: -0.01, 33rd among Centres and again, higher than Hunter
PIPM:-0.03, better than Hunter by a large margin
EPM: -0.1, 161st in the NBA, nearly 200 spots above Hunter

While it's clear that Jaxson still has a long way to go, particularly from a physique standpoint but also in terms of versatility on defense and creating his own shot, he's been a much more productive and impactful NBA player in his role this year than Hunter has been in his.

Even with all of Jax’s flaws, he is incredibly promising. Nothing I’ve seen indicates he will be a mediocre NBA player down the line once he puts on weight. In fact, quite the opposite. We won the trade by a landslide. And that’s not even adding Nickeil and Didi to the mix.
02-25-2020, 04:44 PM
As I See It

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Even with all of Jax’s flaws, he is incredibly promising. Nothing I’ve seen indicates he will be a mediocre NBA player down the line once he puts on weight. In fact, quite the opposite. We won the trade by a landslide. And that’s not even adding Nickeil and Didi to the mix.

I agree with one caveat....Hayes is as green a rookie as has come into this league in the new millennia. He needs on-the-court time to develop his BASKETBALL skills. Erie would have been the perfect segue. Alas, opportunity lost.
02-25-2020, 04:47 PM
donato

Hunter’s last 10 have been better. He’s getting 1.6 steals per game and shooting 45.5% from 3. Maybe he’s figuring it out. Still I like JAX.
02-25-2020, 05:00 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by donato

Hunter’s last 10 have been better. He’s getting 1.6 steals per game and shooting 45.5% from 3. Maybe he’s figuring it out. Still I like JAX.

Sure, and I don't think he's actually going to be this bad long term; those impact stats were disgusting, and I have confidence that he can be better than that. He'll probably be okay.

My point is just that he hasn't performed at all on the level he would have needed to to make me regret the trade we made; he has been worse than Jax and he's 3 years older than Jax is. Even if NAW+Didi never amount to anything, the year 1 contributions of Jax have been more significant than the year 1 performance of Hunter, so it seems to have worked out at least in the short term.
02-25-2020, 05:08 PM
As I See It

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Sure, and I don't think he's actually going to be this bad long term; those impact stats were disgusting, and I have confidence that he can be better than that. He'll probably be okay.

My point is just that he hasn't performed at all on the level he would have needed to to make me regret the trade we made; he has been worse than Jax and he's 3 years older than Jax is. Even if NAW+Didi never amount to anything, the year 1 contributions of Jax have been more significant than the year 1 performance of Hunter, so it seems to have worked out at least in the short term.

I know some get a thrill up an their legs by the WOW factor, but there's been far more crash than flash in 10's game right now. It fact, less of 10 has meant more to the team. I do think he could be part of the future...but his future is down the road. Right now his game is more suited for the "Globetrotters' and the Washington Capitals than the NBA.