Thoughts on how to assess Zion's defense so far?

It's obvious. I mean, highlight or not. LOOK at the player in this video. Isolate any moment, cherry pick to your heart's desire...and find when Zion has EVER moved or been this active at any point.

https://youtu.be/iG-F4n6u-pc

I mean, Jesus Christ, the dude was blocking 3pt jumpshots. It's like the whole body kinetics thing has him afraid to leave the ground. Maybe it's all intentional from the staff? I don't know, man...

ANd yes. Zion is still much heavier looking than he was here. He needs to get back to this size.

Lol.

One of the best starts in NBA history.

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Originally Posted by Wowowowow

Lol.

One of the best starts in NBA history.

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This thread isn't about Zion's offensive production

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Originally Posted by AusPel

This thread isn't about Zion's offensive production

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Surprisingly, I never said it was. My comment still doesn?t change.

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Originally Posted by Wowowowow

Surprisingly, I never said it was. My comment still doesn?t change.

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TiredMajes...mneyswift.webp

Zion's defense is starting to improve. It has been clear that his processing on that end is extremely slow right now, but it's getting better. I think we overreacted pretty drastically at the beginning of the season. The reason we're not seeing the splash plays like we saw at Duke is because that's how SVG currently wants them to play.

SVG's entirely philosophy is clog the paint and protect the rim without fouling, so its understandable that Zion's block and steal numbers are down compared to his Duke days. If you look around the team, Eric Bledsoe's steal rate is down too, as is Steven Adams' block rate. SVG doesn't want guys closing too hard on 3 point shooters, gambling on steal attempts, or trying to block shots outside of their zone. Zion is just worse at transferring that philosophy to on-court play because he's basically a rookie, and he's in his second defensive system in 2 years. Once his processing catches up to his athleticism, he'll be fine. We're starting to see it with his handle on the offensive end. It'll be a similarly slow moving but positive progression defensively.

Lastly, we need to set our expectations lower than Draymond. If that's the comp, we're going to be extremely disappointed.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Zion's defense is starting to improve. It has been clear that his processing on that end is extremely slow right now, but it's getting better. I think we overreacted pretty drastically at the beginning of the season. The reason we're not seeing the splash plays like we saw at Duke is because that's how SVG currently wants them to play.

SVG's entirely philosophy is clog the paint and protect the rim without fouling, so its understandable that Zion's block and steal numbers are down compared to his Duke days. If you look around the team, Eric Bledsoe's steal rate is down too, as is Steven Adams' block rate. SVG doesn't want guys closing too hard on 3 point shooters, gambling on steal attempts, or trying to block shots outside of their zone. Zion is just worse at transferring that philosophy to on-court play because he's basically a rookie, and he's in his second defensive system in 2 years. Once his processing catches up to his athleticism, he'll be fine. We're starting to see it with his handle on the offensive end. It'll be a similarly slow moving but positive progression defensively.

Lastly, we need to set our expectations lower than Draymond. If that's the comp, we're going to be extremely disappointed.

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Come on man! Expecting a 20 yo dude to be the offensive AND defensive POY isn't too much to ask? Sheesh <<<<<< (hyperbole)

I legit don't know what's going on. He's not even getting in a stance half the time. Plays super upright and gives no effort. If this is the instructions of Stan/Griff.... both need to be fired, immediately. Obviously that won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

I legit don't know what's going on. He's not even getting in a stance half the time. Plays super upright and gives no effort. If this is the instructions of Stan/Griff.... both need to be fired, immediately. Obviously that won't happen.

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It's not going to happen because it's a kneejerk reaction that makes no sense less than 20 games into a rebuild season lmao

There are obvious issues that need to fixed, but let me tell you, you do not get anywhere as a franchise by firing your GM one season, firing your coach the next season, then firing your GM and your coach the next season, immediately after trading/letting go half your roster.

That's just reactionary decision making that gets you nowhere and is almost guaranteed to just annoy the stars of the team who will be wanting to see some consistent direction

It's one thing to be told ''yes, we suck now, but here's our plan and this is the approach we're taking and we're going to work on these things to get here''.

It's another thing to have everyone constantly throwing every plan in the garbage every five minutes and starting from scratch. Then you get impatient. Then you get annoyed. Then you ask for a trade.

This is a touchy subject in this forum. Either fall in line with the 'group-think' or get ostracized. But, for God's Sake don't criticize the 'Sacred Cow'.

But, for what it's worth, Zion stinks defensively.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

This is a touchy subject in this forum. Either fall in line with the 'group-think' or get ostracized. But, for God's Sake don't criticize the 'Sacred Cow'.

But, for what it's worth, Zion stinks defensively.

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Sorry to ruin your attempt at looking like the brave truth-teller, who isn't afraid of the controversy, but this thread is filled with people saying he has no motor, needs to lose 25lbs, has never had to think, and sucks.

If anyone is falling in line with the current ''group-think'', you can see them in the mirror.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's not going to happen because it's a kneejerk reaction that makes no sense less than 20 games into a rebuild season lmao

There are obvious issues that need to fixed, but let me tell you, you do not get anywhere as a franchise by firing your GM one season, firing your coach the next season, then firing your GM and your coach the next season, immediately after trading/letting go half your roster.

That's just reactionary decision making that gets you nowhere and is almost guaranteed to just annoy the stars of the team who will be wanting to see some consistent direction

It's one thing to be told ''yes, we suck now, but here's our plan and this is the approach we're taking and we're going to work on these things to get here''.

It's another thing to have everyone constantly throwing every plan in the garbage every five minutes and starting from scratch. Then you get impatient. Then you get annoyed. Then you ask for a trade.

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Yeah, I was frustrated last night and made a kneejerk reaction, for sure. But I'm concerned.

It's one thing if the defensive IQ isn't there at this stage, but seeing the stark difference in motor from now to his Duke days just presents a scary proposition of Zion never getting back to that level of defensive intensity. I know he's a basically still a rookie, and I haven't lost faith in him or the coaching staff, but it's really not fun to see what he's doing on that end rn. And I'm certainly not one to fall in to the legion of groupthink that believe he's somehow the worst defender in the league or something, it wasn't long ago that I was talking about his improvement on that end.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Yeah, I was frustrated last night and made a kneejerk reaction, for sure. But I'm concerned.

It's one thing if the defensive IQ isn't there at this stage, but seeing the stark difference in motor from now to his Duke days just presents a scary proposition of Zion never getting back to that level of defensive intensity. I know he's a basically still a rookie, and I haven't lost faith in him or the coaching staff, but it's really not fun to see what he's doing on that end rn. And I'm certainly not one to fall in to the legion of groupthink that believe he's somehow the worst defender in the league or something, it wasn't long ago that I was talking about his improvement on that end.

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Yeah, I understand having some level of concern. One of the reasons I ranked Zion as such an all-time prospect is that, based on his Duke play, I thought his defensive peak was going to be All Defense level. Right now, we're a hell of a long way from that, and yes part of that seems to just be raw activity level.

I don't think he's quite as bad as some people are claiming: if you read the way people write about Zions defense sometimes you would be forgiven for thinking he's the worst defender in the history of basketball, which is far from true. But there's definitely a huge amount of room for improvement, both in terms of the motor and the activity level. Obviously I hope to see it improve over time.

I think that part of what has people so worked up is that it feels like Zions been in the league longer than he really has, because we're in late January of his second season. For a normal player, in Non COVID times, with no injuries, a player is usually about 110 games into their career and you start wanting to see the gaps in the game close up. But Zion, who sat out more than half of last year to injury, followed by this season which started months late, isnt even 40 games in yet. So people, I think, are wanting 110+ games of defensive improvement to show in a guy with about a third of that, and there's an obvious gap between reality and desire there.

That's not to absolve Zion completely; he needs to be better. But it's just context worth considering.