Sorry 'dae, but more from The Ringer...

I'm glad someone is at least asking the questions. https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1...brandon-ingram

I get the Bill Simmons hate, but I really enjoy Kevin O'Connor

Yeah, I think they do some good stuff as well. Simmons draws a lot of hate, but I think the site at least discusses basketball in a meaningful way...

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The Pelicans aren’t there yet, though. Griffin admitted they lack the shooting they’ll need in the future. “That’s the piece that I think takes the longest to really hone in on,” he said. For now, the surrounding pieces are there to set an example. “You don’t understand the value of real professionalism until it’s around,” Griffin said.

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At least they admit it. In today's NBA you need guys that can shoot... Griff is trying to throw the bad boy Pistons out there, and its just not how basketball is played today. Not in the NBA... college... international.. AAU... nowhere.

Get shooters in here that can put the ball in the basket, and this team will be much better.

Been saying this forever.

It's no secret that they need shooting, and Griff knows that. They see Kira as a high level shooter as early as next season. They already see NAW as a high level shooter, but NAW needs to overcome his confidence issues before he can make the full leap that he's capable of.

I know they want a shooting big on this roster. It didn't work out how they had hoped in the draft, and so we'll see how they attack it at the deadline

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

It's no secret that they need shooting, and Griff knows that. They see Kira as a high level shooter as early as next season. They already see NAW as a high level shooter, but NAW needs to overcome his confidence issues before he can make the full leap that he's capable of.

I know they want a shooting big on this roster. It didn't work out how they had hoped in the draft, and so we'll see how they attack it at the deadline

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NAW is playing on eggshells; always looking over his shoulder waiting for the 'hook'. If he hasn't already, SVG has to sit NAW down and tell him no matter what, for the next 20 games, he is getting at least 25 minutes a night.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

NAW is playing on eggshells; always looking over his shoulder waiting for the 'hook'. If he hasn't already, SVG has to sit NAW down and tell him no matter what, for the next 20 games, he is getting at least 25 minutes a night.

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No arguments here. Seems like NAW and JJ have flipped roles though, so that?s a positive.

I don't have an issue with The Ringer when they're actually talking to people and quoting people who know and have sources for their claims.

I just hate their uninformed ignorant bro-ish approach to general coverage, and yeah, it's largely informed by Bill Simmons but he's far from the only one.

In any case, I don't think anyone should be (or is, really) surprised that Griff thinks there's work to be done and shooting to be gained over time. Like I said in the other thread (and like many other people have been saying all season) there's only so many moves you can make at one time and it's unfair to expect every single roster problem to be fixed in one off-season. What we want to see is progress towards a better future team, not necessarily expecting that entire team to manifest in one solid bloc.

We have the tools in terms of picks and a good salary sheet going forward, we have Zion and Ingram, we have Adams who is a really good mid-term piece for us and who, depending on how he ages over the next season or two, could turn into another way to acquire more assets. We have Kira, who many of us expect to be good. We have Jax, who has shown encouraging progress and has a theoretically very high ceiling. So we have some of the pieces required for the team to be potentially very good in the future, and we have more stuff in the form of picks and sell-able players for us to be able to try and acquire some more. Griff has us set up well in that regard.

The next step is the conversion of those assets into the players and pieces. That's what we're now waiting for. As much as I hate to say trust the process, I think to an extent we just have to accept that while the team being good this year was a goal, it wasn't the primary goal: that was seeing what we have for various guys and setting up for the future. If we're still talking about the process in another 2 years we'll have a real problem, but for now it's fine.

I've been around for longer so "being patient" is wearing a bit thin on my end, but, of course, I understand generally. I confess I thought we'd be better than this and that's what is frustrating and I genuinely think we should be better than we've shown so far.

One thing that frosts my cookies a bit is when Griffin says "If you judge our offseason by our ability to win the championship this year, we failed." As if anyone thought we'd be winning a championship this year. Such a straw man. No, what we thought is that you'd be competitive, a .500 ball club or a bit better. A Memphis. A Dallas. A club that improved from last year, defended harder and smarter. Win the championship. Jesus effing Christ.

Let me add something on a more serious note. Griffin himself cited the dangers of allowing a losing culture to develop. It was a big reason he said he valued a veteran presence on the team when he got guys like Redick and Favors and then Bledsoe and Adams. To the extent he is implying losing doesn't matter now, he's singing a new tune and a misguided one as far as I'm concerned. When you are dealing with Zion or Ingram--who already announced he would not miss the playoffs again in his career--extended losing like the Pels have done these past two years leaves a scar and can turn the stars on your organization sooner rather than later. If that happens you may have a lot less time than you think to build your team. The Pels can't afford to be blase about what is going on and honestly when Griffin came in I didn't think he would be so passive. He certainly didn't talk that way. But maybe he was just selling the sizzle instead of the steak.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I've been around for longer so "being patient" is wearing a bit thin on my end, but, of course, I understand generally. I confess I thought we'd be better than this and that's what is frustrating and I genuinely think we should be better than we've shown so far.

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Nah I absolutely understand that. I just think that we have to understand the difference in perspective from a fan to a FO member.

Pretty much this entire FO got the job like 2 years ago. As fans, we've been being patient and trying to wait for the team to get good for years and years before that. Exactly how long depends on how long you've been a fan of the franchise because we've basically never been a great team, especially not for multiple years in a row, but you could easily argue that you've been being patient and waiting to get good again since 2008, for example.

But for Griff and co, that's not true. Unless they were Pelicans fans in secret for that entire time, their process started when they arrived. So while we might say ''argh! We've been waiting to get good for 13 years now!'', for Griff that's just not true: he's been working on his plan for less than 2 full years. It's harder for us to set that re-set button, but unfortunately that's just what you have to do when your franchise player asks out and you get a new Franchise Player, a new HC, a new GM, and a new training staff all within about 20 months.

I hear you and maybe this is my fault, but I swear I'd be a much happier fan if they had just gone with a rebuild and started loading up on young talent. They are the ones who said we would be competitive out of the gate. Who got multiple veteran starters for the roster and talked all the time about a winning culture.

I've said many times here I'm envious of Memphis. I'd rather have that roster overall. They didn't load up on veterans and it hasn't seemed to hurt their culture. In fact, they seem a lot more competitive and hard nosed than the Pelicans, more clutch, more resilient. Of course no one expects to win a title this year. That's just an absurd thing to say on Griff's part. But I do think it was entirely reasonable to expect the Pels to be a .500 NBA club, both this year and last year, with the talent on the roster. And there is no reason at all to accept losing 8 of 9 or going on a 13-game losing streak. If I'm Griffin and I see that, I'm rattling my sword and I am sure as hell going to say something to the fans and season ticket holders. You need to get out front more on this. Reassure people you are on the job. You can say it's just optics, but as I get older I'm here to tell you optics matter, a lot. Losing can gain momentum and invade your team's head space. Just tell people you know this is unacceptable and that you have a plan. And keep saying it. If FO execs don't understand that by this stage of their careers, then they have a huge failing as executives. It's a PR job too--and not just when things are going well and you luck into the number one pick in the draft. That's easy. You need to be out front when things are darkest. Ask Churchill!

Lets be honest, maybe you would rather pull for a Grizzlies like team because you could dream of a better future as the team ages.
You would rather watch 21 year olds and hope than 27 year old finished products.
The facts are that neither team is winning a title anytime soon. All I hear is win the title or rebuild.
I just want to be like the Utah Jazz to start, I think that as a small market team it is the only hope, competitive, worth watching, and maybe......
one day....a championship. Probably not, but who knows.

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Originally Posted by redrum

Lets be honest, maybe you would rather pull for a Grizzlies like team because you could dream of a better future as the team ages.
You would rather watch 21 year olds and hope than 27 year old finished products.
The facts are that neither team is winning a title anytime soon. All I hear is win the title or rebuild.
I just want to be like the Utah Jazz to start, I think that as a small market team it is the only hope, competitive, worth watching, and maybe......
one day....a championship. Probably not, but who knows.

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This is what I've said before about people who have brought up a potential Portland trade for Lillard.

What success looks like for each franchise is a bit different. Obviously for fans and players, we want championships. But owners and the FO are happy, a lot of the time, to have 10 years of solid 4th-to-7th seed placements where they get knocked out of the playoffs in the second round every year, because that sustained continued success provides a lot of cash-flow and fan support and ticket sales etc, without ever putting them in any financial or circumstantial difficulty.

Like sure, an owner might say they want a ring, and they're probably telling the truth, but if they have the choice between ten years of sustainable profit and one year of massive profit (a championship season brought on by selling the farm) followed by a decade of failure and money loss, they'll usually take the 10 years of money, please.

Griff has said about forty five million times since joining the Pels that he wants to build a sustainable winner. Of course he certainly wants that to involve a championship at some point, but he's trying to set up for 10 years of 45-55 win seasons, not trying to slap together the quickest ring possible and then dip.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is what I've said before about people who have brought up a potential Portland trade for Lillard.

What success looks like for each franchise is a bit different. Obviously for fans and players, we want championships. But owners and the FO are happy, a lot of the time, to have 10 years of solid 4th-to-7th seed placements where they get knocked out of the playoffs in the second round every year, because that sustained continued success provides a lot of cash-flow and fan support and ticket sales etc, without ever putting them in any financial or circumstantial difficulty.

Like sure, an owner might say they want a ring, and they're probably telling the truth, but if they have the choice between ten years of sustainable profit and one year of massive profit (a championship season brought on by selling the farm) followed by a decade of failure and money loss, they'll usually take the 10 years of money, please.

Griff has said about forty five million times since joining the Pels that he wants to build a sustainable winner. Of course he certainly wants that to involve a championship at some point, but he's trying to set up for 10 years of 45-55 win seasons, not trying to slap together the quickest ring possible and then dip.

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I'm impressed with your patience. It's really not that hard to understand what you have been trying to get across to people.

Very well written article.