Demps in Utah

Attachment 6538https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...126232580?s=21

Assistant coach... Huh.

i thought that was a typo at first. this could be interesting.

Guess there was no interest in his front office abilities.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Guess there was no interest in his front office abilities.

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You can only kill so many pets before people ask you not to pet sit for them.

Demps preferred to coach. He wanted that over scouting or FO jobs -- I know of at least one FO job he turned down.

Being a GM isn't just trades and signings. Its overseeing game operations, being involved in business meetings, ticket sales, etc.

He loves the game and players. When you are in the FO, you actually are encouraged NOT to have relationships with players. That isn't his personality. I actually think coaching is a better fit for him

If im not mistaken I think a few GMs have gone on to be coaches, most notably Pops.

I wonder how Jazz fans feel right now. Last night Mitchell was talking about BLM, and today the franchise hired both Demps and Keyon Dooling to their organization. Their worlds must be turned upside down right now wondering what they did for this to happen to them.

Watch Demps be awesome at it.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Watch Demps be awesome at it.

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And then In 3 years he gets hired To be HC of the Pels.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

And then In 3 years he gets hired To be HC of the Pels.

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Signed

Jeff Bowers.

Wish him the best. Obviously things didn't work out here but from what I know (evidently a limited amount in respects to these things) Demps was a good guy. Hopefully this works out for him and he enjoys it and has a ton of success.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Assistant coach... Huh.

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Maybe Pelican should have hired him as an assISTANT coach BECAUSE HE SUCK AS A GM

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Demps preferred to coach. He wanted that over scouting or FO jobs -- I know of at least one FO job he turned down.

Being a GM isn't just trades and signings. Its overseeing game operations, being involved in business meetings, ticket sales, etc.

He loves the game and players. When you are in the FO, you actually are encouraged NOT to have relationships with players. That isn't his personality. I actually think coaching is a better fit for him

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Do you agree that Demps hands were tied the whole time he was at NO with respect to his roster decisions?

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Originally Posted by Ltdee2019

Maybe Pelican should have hired him as an assISTANT coach BECAUSE HE SUCK AS A GM

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To be fair it was not a Benson hire.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Do you agree that Demps hands were tied the whole time he was at NO with respect to his roster decisions?

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I think thats WAY too simple of a summary.

He was told that ownership didnt want a slow rebuild that resulted in many years of missed playoffs. They wanted the team to be competitive almost instantly, and strongly urged him to look for difference makers in 2013, as opposed to building through the draft.

But just because they wanted to win doesnt mean he didnt make a long of bad choices of his own doing. In the coaching search, he narrowed in on Gentry and Del Negro, despite Thibs, Van Gundy, Cal and several other more accomplished guys trying to get the job. He vastly overpaid Asik. He zeroed in on Solomon Hill and kept bidding with Utah as a few playoff games made his price go up.

Many people could have had similar mandates and performed much better. Heck, most owners dont want a slow build and want playoffs sooner than later, and many GM's find better ways to get there. Dell wasnt as bad as many think, but he made a lot of mistakes. He couldnt accept sunk cost and he had optimism bias, and that more than ownership was his downfall

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think thats WAY too simple of a summary.

He was told that ownership didnt want a slow rebuild that resulted in many years of missed playoffs. They wanted the team to be competitive almost instantly, and strongly urged him to look for difference makers in 2013, as opposed to building through the draft.

But just because they wanted to win doesnt mean he didnt make a long of bad choices of his own doing. In the coaching search, he narrowed in on Gentry and Del Negro, despite Thibs, Van Gundy, Cal and several other more accomplished guys trying to get the job. He vastly overpaid Asik. He zeroed in on Solomon Hill and kept bidding with Utah as a few playoff games made his price go up.

Many people could have had similar mandates and performed much better. Heck, most owners dont want a slow build and want playoffs sooner than later, and many GM's find better ways to get there. Dell wasnt as bad as many think, but he made a lot of mistakes. He couldnt accept sunk cost and he had optimism bias, and that more than ownership was his downfall

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What do you think drives a ridiculous contract like that of Asik's when he's just bidding against himself? Or were there other suitors?

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Originally Posted by AusPel

What do you think drives a ridiculous contract like that of Asik's when he's just bidding against himself? Or were there other suitors?

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Asiks agent knew Dell wouldn't let him walk because he had just traded a first for him, and so he completely dragged Dell in that negotiation. But I will say that Dell got better later in his career. In that Boogie trade, he walked away from the negotiation at one point and was ready to let the deal die because the Kings were asking for too much.

Like a player, he was getting better after a few years. But he had done far too much damage already to recover from

Part of me wishes Dell didn't give a max contract to Eric Gordon...wish he did a sign and trade with Phoenix

Dell and Omer will forever be linked together in the NBA History Book in the chapter entitled: "Inept NBA Duos". Hell, they may well be the headliner for that chapter.

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Originally Posted by ozwego15

Part of me wishes Dell didn't give a max contract to Eric Gordon...wish he did a sign and trade with Phoenix

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I thought that wasn't an option? Phoenix signed him and then there was nothing the Pels could do or something like that? Maybe I'm imagining that.

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Originally Posted by donato

I thought that wasn't an option? Phoenix signed him and then there was nothing the Pels could do or something like that? Maybe I'm imagining that.

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No - prior to officially signing with Phoenix, the Suns engaged us numerous times on a sign and trade. We said no, Gordon then said he would wait to do his surgery in season if we didnt sign and trade him and/or if we matched. It was ugly behind the scenes. All fans know is the "heart in Phoenix" comment, but it was very, very ugly.

But Dell refused to trade him, thinking he could get more later for Gordon. And he never did. And he also lost the opportunity cost of making moves with that cap space. For example, because we didnt have enough space, we had to make Lopez part of the Tyreke signing. And with no Lopez, we traded a 1st for Asik. And because we traded a 1st for Asik, we overpaid when we re-signed him.

It could all be traced back to the Gordon decision. That said, it makes me a little upset when people say they wish we would have sign and traded him because literally NOBODY agreed with that at the time. Nobody. Every time I brought that up, the answer was the same, "You cant just lose the guy who was the centerpiece of the CP3 trade"

This is why I am so adament about cutting bait on Lonzo. No, its not exactly the same but it is eerily close.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

No - prior to officially signing with Phoenix, the Suns engaged us numerous times on a sign and trade. We said no, Gordon then said he would wait to do his surgery in season if we didnt sign and trade him and/or if we matched. It was ugly behind the scenes. All fans know is the "heart in Phoenix" comment, but it was very, very ugly.

But Dell refused to trade him, thinking he could get more later for Gordon. And he never did. And he also lost the opportunity cost of making moves with that cap space. For example, because we didnt have enough space, we had to make Lopez part of the Tyreke signing. And with no Lopez, we traded a 1st for Asik. And because we traded a 1st for Asik, we overpaid when we re-signed him.

It could all be traced back to the Gordon decision. That said, it makes me a little upset when people say they wish we would have sign and traded him because literally NOBODY agreed with that at the time. Nobody. Every time I brought that up, the answer was the same, "You cant just lose the guy who was the centerpiece of the CP3 trade"

This is why I am so adament about cutting bait on Lonzo. No, its not exactly the same but it is eerily close.

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Did you know why Gordon despise N.O. so much? Thanks for the insight Mac.

So the ultimate question...is Griffin the same kind of eternal optimist that Demps was?

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Did you know why Gordon despise N.O. so much? Thanks for the insight Mac.

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I mean, they stunk. Its not a glamour city. Ownership had just been a nightmare. Franchise at that time had a rep for being really cheap. Oh, and Kaman used the N word in the locker room that season and for all those reasons there was just a funk around the team that everyone wanted to flee from.

Admittedly, that is different with Lonzo. He wants to stay.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

So the ultimate question...is Griffin the same kind of eternal optimist that Demps was?

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I have said yes in the past but some people who know him or know people who know him tell me its not the case. I think we will learn a ton this summer.

Dell was just a different level of optimist. I will never forget being at the airport when Dell called me after the Gentry announcement and literally the first question I asked him was, "So, with this hiring, I guess that means you're moving on from Asik" and his response was, "No, I think he can be for us what Bogut was in Golden State."

I know we talked about more that call. I had time to kill for a delayed plane. But I honestly can not remember one other thing because that line put me into a state of shock. I will never forget it.

I was very adamant about trading Gordon. The guy clearly didn't want to be here. I felt we should have traded him the min he refused the original contract extension. You need everyone to buy in especially a player you expect to make up your core.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I have said yes in the past but some people who know him or know people who know him tell me its not the case. I think we will learn a ton this summer.

Dell was just a different level of optimist. I will never forget being at the airport when Dell called me after the Gentry announcement and literally the first question I asked him was, "So, with this hiring, I guess that means you're moving on from Asik" and his response was, "No, I think he can be for us what Bogut was in Golden State."

I know we talked about more that call. I had time to kill for a delayed plane. But I honestly can not remember one other thing because that line put me into a state of shock. I will never forget it.

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So if we keep Lonzo and Jrue this summer will your assumption of Griffin being too much of an optimist be validated or will it take more?

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

So if we keep Lonzo and Jrue this summer will your assumption of Griffin being too much of an optimist be validated or will it take more?

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I need to see the whole offseason. Also, I think there is a very real chance he doesnt make trades until in season. For example, JJ wont have any less value at deadline than he will this offseason, so if he doesnt get blown away with an offer for him or Jrue or even Lonzo, he could go into the season with them on roster but knowing he is likely to trade them

I will learn most from the coach decision and the overall around the edges moves this offseason. He will only make a trade this offseason if someone overpays, so that wont tell me much

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

No - prior to officially signing with Phoenix, the Suns engaged us numerous times on a sign and trade. We said no, Gordon then said he would wait to do his surgery in season if we didnt sign and trade him and/or if we matched. It was ugly behind the scenes. All fans know is the "heart in Phoenix" comment, but it was very, very ugly.

But Dell refused to trade him, thinking he could get more later for Gordon. And he never did. And he also lost the opportunity cost of making moves with that cap space. For example, because we didnt have enough space, we had to make Lopez part of the Tyreke signing. And with no Lopez, we traded a 1st for Asik. And because we traded a 1st for Asik, we overpaid when we re-signed him.

It could all be traced back to the Gordon decision. That said, it makes me a little upset when people say they wish we would have sign and traded him because literally NOBODY agreed with that at the time. Nobody. Every time I brought that up, the answer was the same, "You cant just lose the guy who was the centerpiece of the CP3 trade"

This is why I am so adament about cutting bait on Lonzo. No, its not exactly the same but it is eerily close.

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At the time, Gordon was our franchise player for the first or second smallest market team in the league.

You could draw parallels, but I don't think the Lonzo situation is that identical considering Zion and Ingram

What is intriguing is the mindset Griffin has. The (second) Gordon decision was the first or second most important decision a rookie GM had to make.

Griffin and the team are a lot more experienced than that, with a lot more ammunition outside of Lonzo to appease fans, which is obviously always a consideration

Gordon was THE prize, but the myriad of assets we derived from the AD trade completely outweigh putting all the eggs in one peach basket like Dell had to in deciding Gordon's future with the team




Imagine your whole livelihood depends on umming and ahhing about roster decisions. Not sure if that's a blessing or a curse

Also, I'm not sure why no one questions the Dell hire in the first place which a subject rife for discussion

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Originally Posted by AusPel

At the time, Gordon was our franchise player for the first or second smallest market team in the league.

You could draw parallels, but I don't think the Lonzo situation is that identical considering Zion and Ingram

What is intriguing is the mindset Griffin has. The (second) Gordon decision was the first or second most important decision a rookie GM had to make.

Griffin and the team are a lot more experienced than that, with a lot more ammunition outside of Lonzo to appease fans, which is obviously always a consideration

Gordon was THE prize, but the myriad of assets we derived from the AD trade completely outweigh putting all the eggs in one peach basket like Dell had to in deciding Gordon's future with the team




Imagine your whole livelihood depends on umming and ahhing about roster decisions. Not sure if that's a blessing or a curse

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The problem I have with this Gordon situation is Demps didn't treat Gordon like he was the prize on the CP3 trade. We could have secured Eric on a max contract extension and didn't (in fairness to Dell he wasn't worth a max deal), but that created animosity between the franchise and Gordon. We let him hit free agency albeit restricted, but Phoenix rolled out the red carpet offered him the max and his heart was never here even though we matched. So we ended up handing out almost the very same amount, but managed to ******** off our star player. It was dumb then as it is dumb now. Either we should have paid him or moved him.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The problem I have with this Gordon situation is Demps didn't treat Gordon like he was the prize on the CP3 trade. We could have secured Eric on a max contract extension and didn't (in fairness to Dell he wasn't worth a max deal), but that created animosity between the franchise and Gordon. We let him hit free agency albeit restricted, but Phoenix rolled out the red carpet offered him the max and his heart was never here even though we matched. So we ended up handing out almost the very same amount, but managed to ******** off our star player. It was dumb then as it is dumb now. Either we should have paid him or moved him.

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Actually, that's a very good point that I glossed over

I don't think letting him explore free agency was the turning point though. He was disgruntled from day 1 which you could glean from his comments and demeanour

Dell should have just traded him considering he's in the inner sanctum with these guys

But there's no real point in letting a guy get other offers then match as you say. It achieves nothing but create animosity and confusion.

The only two contracts I can remember in the last ten years (star level players) in this situation are Eric Gordon and Gordon Hayward

No surprise that they both left soon after