I would not be too down at all. Zion and BI are two cornerstones to build a good team. I like Adams. You have to surround them with the right players. Bledsoe is not the right fit I'm unsure about Lonzo this is a big year for him to show consistency. Hayes looks bad Millie is to inconsistent. It's going to take some time to get the right pieces to fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
December 25th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Miami Heat - 1-0
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12-25-2020, 07:52 PMWecandothis
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12-25-2020, 08:20 PMJJackisangry
As much as I hate to be stuck with Bledsoe, he is an all NBA defender and can turn it on in some games. This just happened to be a very tough one and he flopped ridiculously hard. I don’t expect him to be an albatross unless we continue with this 9 man rotation crap. We need to develop Nickeil at the very least. I’d love Kira to see some minutes, but I would understand his exclusion.
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12-26-2020, 12:18 AMTaker597
Definitely good film to get better from... . I do see us staying around 0.500 till the team really jells.
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12-26-2020, 12:59 AMnew city champ
Bled had a very bad game, but he did something I haven’t seen a Pel do since maybe Jason Smith was on the team. After a turnover he chucked Bam right out of bounds rather than give him a free breakaway. I haven’t a seen a Pel deliver a hard foul like that in like 10 years. It warmed my heart on Christmas and I hope it signals a tougher attitude for the season!
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12-26-2020, 01:41 AMCreative
Really good game by Zion and Ingram... Terrible game by rest of the team... Let's move on, another big game ahead of us...
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12-26-2020, 03:21 AMPelicanidaeThis is my thing: we need another lead guard. I don't really care if it's NAW or Kira, but one of them needs a look in because Bled/Lonzo are not 48 minutes of point guard. I prefer Kira because of various reasons, but NAW would be fine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
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12-26-2020, 03:46 AMPelicanidae
Shooting from this game, in TS%
Ingram: 64.1%
Zion: 60.2%
Adams: 100%
Lonzo: 37.5%
Bledsoe: 25%
Melli: 17.4%
Redick: 43.5%
Hart: 60%
Yeah having 3 guys shoot worse than 38%TS is gonna do it most nights, especially when two of those guys play 33 minutes each. That said, Bledsoe and Lonzo did both lead the team in deflections with 3 each, which is something positive.
Zion led the team in shot contests, with 11; Adams, Ingram, and Hart all had 10 for second place. Zion had 4 offensive box-outs: that's all of them, nobody else had one. He also had a defensive box-out, joint second place on the team after Adams who had 5, meaning Zion and Adams are tied with 5 total box outs on the game.
Funny that I saw some people on Twitter saying Precious ''locked down'' Zion, when looking at the matchup stats it shows that Zion scored 12 points on Precious, shooting 67% while doing so, in less than 3 total minutes of matchup time. Sensibly, the Heat had Bam on Zion the most, and that led to only 4 points on 25% shooting. -
12-26-2020, 05:30 AMPelicanidae
Roster averages so far through 2 games. Only counting players who have played at least 50 minutes (so Jax, Melli, etc, do not qualify). Slash lines are pts/rbds/asts
Zion: 23.5/12/2 on 62/0/58 splits. 62.9% TS
Ingram: 26/5.5/7 on 47/50/84.6 splits. 62.3%TS
Adams: 7/8.5/2 on 77.8% FG. Has not taken a 3 or a FT yet.
Lonzo: 11/3.5/4 on 35/37/66 splits. 56%TS
Bled: 11.5/2/6 on 36/35/50 splits. 48.4%TS
Redick: 15.5/2.5/0.5 on 42/43.8/100 splits. 65.6%TS
Hart: 9/7.5/0.5 on 46.7/30/33 splits. 55.1% TS
There's a few obvious problems. Starting guard duo has neither guy shooting better than 40% from the floor. Lonzo's shooting well from 3 on high volume, which is buoying his TS%, but otherwise they're both bad from inside the arc right now, and the line, and the midrange. Hart can't hit the broad side of a barn from 3 right now either, despite fairly high volume. We desperately need Bledsoe to get back to something resembling his normal form (last year he was 48/34/79 splits), which could still easily happen - it's very very early in the season. If Hart could tick his 3pt% back up a bit that would be great too.
Some good improvements though from last year that I'd like to see continue:
- Zion's REB% has been 21.7% through the first two games, including 14.5% OREB. I don't expect it to stay quite this high, but a strong improvement from last year would be great.
- Through 2 games, Ingram's TOV% is 1.3% higher but that's totally fair when his AST% is 16.3% higher than last year so far.
- Zion's FTr is even higher than last year so far. That's great. Obviously we want the %age to go up, but the volume is incredible and very good.
- Love Ingram's increased 3ptR. He had a 3ptR of .35 last year, it's .39 so far this year. Not a huge leap but on good efficiency, even a small increase can pay dividends. -
12-26-2020, 10:28 AMJJackisangryYeah. I’m fine with 9 man rotations when we have our established lineup, but this was my issue with keeping Bledsoe. He shouldn’t stop guys from getting developed. We are still technically a rebuilding team. That and he really blew it when he joined that 2nd unit. I’d like to see one of the other guys run it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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12-26-2020, 11:00 AMtdcreator
All I saw was our defense was very ineffective with Adams out. Until someone can spell him we are in trouble.
As for Lonzo and Bledsoe, both had a bad game but don’t throw them under the bus yet. I do think they can be replaced by cheap players. Could Naw, Kira, and Hart do just as effectively, I think so. We would take a step back defensively but should be better offensively. -
12-26-2020, 11:09 AMAs I See It...on one side of the court, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative
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12-26-2020, 11:28 AMFuncrushernah. Not gonna fault Zion or Ingram for playing on terrible bench lineups. The trio of Zion, Ingram and Lonzo along with Adams were the only guys I thought provided anything positive defensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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12-26-2020, 11:33 AMPelicanidaePlus you do have to cut some slack at times: when you're the only one generating any offense for like 6 minutes at a time, you're occasionally gonna slip on D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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12-26-2020, 11:33 AMAs I See It
THOUGHTS
1. Thus far, Zion is a one trick pony offensively and is constantly beaten like a drum on the other side of the court. To say otherwise is simply disingenuous.
2. NAW needs floor time. With apologies to Lewis (haven't seen enough of him), NAW has the highest ceiling on both sides of the ball amongst our guards.
3. I gave JAX a "D-" for his play last year. He's improved; now he's a "D". He remains a candidate for Erie. The talented young man is a fish out of water.
4. Melli is too inconsistent to be counted on offensively, but does a lot of things that don't show up in the box score on both sides of the court; is it enough?
5. I'd trade 23 Year Old, 2021 RFA, Lonzo Ball for 27 Year Old 2021 RFA Duncan Robinson straight up...though Miami would have to have a brain fart to do so. -
12-26-2020, 11:47 AMtdcreator
Robinson’s court gravity on the offensive side is crazy good, defense not so good. That is the kind of guy we need to build with, a JJ type but younger. I think that’s why Beal would fit this team like a glove. A 2 man game with Zion would be ridiculous and a floor spacer with BI is so tempting. During the game 2 are on the court at all times fill the rest of the team with Hart type players.
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12-26-2020, 11:58 AMFuncrusher:rolleyes: yeah sure man. Im being disingenuous, not the guy calling the 20 year old sophomore putting up 23/12 "a one trick pony offensively" I would really like to know what universe Zion is so bad on defense, yet Melli is someone who "does a lot of things that don't show up in the box score on both sides of the court" Melli is practically useless, like c'mon. Turnstile on D and is a stretch 4 in theory rather than actuality. Obviously extremely small sample size, but dude is -25 in 23 min so far this season. He's bad, straight up.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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12-26-2020, 12:18 PMAusPelWhat does Zion being a one trick pony mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
He has a back to the basket game as well as a face up game and can score from a lot of different angles. He doesn't have a jumper yet, but I don't think it's hampering him that much
We need to pay JJ even more than he's been getting these last two seasons. I'd be happy giving him 3/60 to stick around -
12-26-2020, 12:20 PMPelicanidaeThe thing with Melli is that pretty much all of his value is predicated on him getting shots up. When he does that, as he did in January/February of last year, he becomes suddenly quite useful to have on the court because he's a decent passer, a reasonable team defender, and quite good at the whole shooting thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
The issue is that he just doesn't most of the time. He passes up so many good shots. If a defender is in motion towards him, even if they're 7 or 8 feet away, he will give up the shot and pass it or try and dribble, which he's not very good at. The vast majority of the time, he only shoots if he is absolutely wide open; those shots don't come very often.
Last year he got up about 9 threes per 100 possessions: this year (obviously miniscule sample size of 2 games) he's at 8 per 100. Compare that with someone else who gains almost all of their value from 3 point shooting like Redick, who's currently shooting at 14.3 per 100 and you can just see the volume and willingness difference jump out.
Shooters, no matter how good they are, need to actually shoot to gain gravity and respect. If Zion shot 1 three every other game and literally never missed, he would still have no 3pt gravity. 100% shooting on essentially 0.5 attempts per game is negligible for the defense, they don't respect that. By contrast, someone like Marcus Smart - who shot only 34% from 3 last year - gets closed out on by defenders because he'll take 10 or 11 of them in a game if you don't, and leaving even average shooters open that often is damaging.
If Melli won't shoot he needs to be benched. It's that simple. Every time he gets an inch of daylight, he needs to pull; anything else isn't good enough.
I'm ignoring the claim that Zion is a one trick pony because frankly, they say the same trash about Giannis and they used to say the same thing about Shaq and it's not worth dealing with. -
12-26-2020, 12:26 PMAusPel
Mac is going hard at Zion on Twitter which is ********
But I agree with his take on Jax. Why take someone @ #8 who'll take 6 years to develop and most likely won't survive his first contract?
This is getting to Hasheem Thabeet levels of bad -
12-26-2020, 12:29 PMPelicanidaeEdit: removed it cause it was harshQuote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
Jax is going to be good though, that's why. -
12-26-2020, 12:55 PMAs I See ItSeems like you jumped out your skin, Ace. I only suggested the obvious, 'fan-boy'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
Everything that Zion has done offensively in the first two games has occurred within two feet of the basket. That's not a knock on him, it's a fact. He has not played well defensively...are you arguing that? I prefaced my whole argument about Zion with two words. Go re-read them.
I, myself, questioned Melli's value to the team in the very post you take issue with. Comprehension problem?
Did 'ja know that Eric Bledsoe (+1) and Lonzo (+13) have a better positive +/- then Zion Williamson (-7) in similar minutes played this year. Using your logic, are Bled and Lonzo playing better than Zion? Further, have you ever seen a -27 in a single box score? See Miami BS.
(Just for fun, double check your +/- on Melli; math and reading comprehension might not everyone's strong suit) -
12-26-2020, 01:00 PMAusPelHe doesn't seem to have much of a nous for the game so farQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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12-26-2020, 01:23 PMFuncrusherI'm not a fanboy, let's please not resort to name calling. We're not children.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
I'll be the first to say Zion isn't what he was at Duke, defensively. He wasn't last year, and he isn't this year. But I simply don't agree he's this terribad defender that gives no effort on that end, like you and others would seem to believe. He's getting better at making rotations on time, helping off the weakside when he needs to, getting low in a stance to cut ballhandlers off on hedges, going for event creation on that end. Still nowhere near perfect, but no, I don't believe he's the worst defender in the NBA. Don't see what makes me a "fan-boy" for seeing that.
I'm aware of the pitfalls of evaluating plus-minus in extremely small sample sizes. Hence why I said, "obviously extreme small sample size." Funny how you talk about reading comprehension but can't check that :rolleyes:
And yeah, it's not terribly indicative to have a bad +/- this early in the season, particularly for guys playing similiar minutes, but Melli's is hilariously bad. Probably wont be quite that bad for the entirety of the season, but yeah, I don't think that's absolutely meaningless number. And nah, I don't I need to double-check anything. Will leave the burden of that on you. -
12-26-2020, 01:40 PMAs I See ItI beg you to find one post of mine where I have said that (or even inferred that) Zion Williamson gives no effort defensively. Hell, this is the second year that I have criticized JAXSON's defense. But again, I have never criticized his effort. There is a difference, you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
In LIFE, there are no trophies for just making an effort; you have to deliver. -
12-26-2020, 01:53 PMJJackisangry
The NBA just might be a different beast than college, and I think year 2 is a tad too early to fully evaluate a player. I hope Stan (and Griffin and the FO for that matter) remember that we have a bright future ahead of us and we don’t have to be title contenders right away. I think playoffs are a realistic goal, but I don’t want it to be at the cost of freezing out talent. We already dealt with that crap under Gentry.