I watched the game last night and all of the post-game commentary. I watched Jeff Van Gundy ask Mrs. Benson to make a stand up for small market teams by not playing AD and pay the fine. I read on this board posts by concerned fans that AD will get hurt (totally justified I might add). I saw the post game debate over whether AD is a victim or a villain. The only consensus anyone ever reaches is that AD will never win a championship in New Orleans.
As a die hard Pels fan, this season has truly been disheartening. It has shown me how the League and the country perceives this franchise. In this new age of "recruiting" in pro sports, how you are perceived is reality. if you are perceived as a joke, you will not be able to retain great or even very good players. At the moment, there is nothing we can do about this perception. Money can't even fix it. The more money we throw at it, the deeper the hole gets when we overpay and a guy really doesn't want to be here, gets injured, or just doesn't pan out.
Our superstar demanding a trade, the booing, the empty seats, AD playing 3 quarters and then sitting in the 4th of a tight game, questions about ownership and management, re-edited hype videos... everyone is talking about everything but the game. This is not a good look. The damage has been done. This will not be an easy or quick fix.
Having time to think, I have changed my mind about a few things. Trading with the Celtics for Jason Taytum will not fix this. As corny as it sounds, this franchise needs a savior. I am not 100 per cent sold on Zion but maybe he is the next LeBron. If so, he is the obvious target. We need to wait to see who has the number one pick and make the deal. I know it's a gamble, but at this point, we have nothing else to lose. And this is coming from a guy who won't even buy a scratch off.
The damage has already been done.
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02-09-2019, 08:55 AMDr. StingThe damage has already been done.
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02-09-2019, 09:02 AMda ThRONeThere's only the Knicks that will win the lottery and trade the pick and that's only if they can secure another top FA to go with Davis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Sting
I do agree that the fix will happen slowly and by drafting well. We had the chance after drafting Davis but we threw it away as an organization trying to win sooner than what was sustainably possible. We shouldn't make that mistake again. -
02-09-2019, 09:08 AMDr. StingI agree. I hear people saying that Dell has learned from his mistakes and will not do that again. Maybe, but does he think he has the time to go the slow route? He has been around for a long time and hasn't produced. My gut tells me that he starts swinging for home runs again to try to save his skin and we stay in mediocrity for another ten years. Sorry, but the guy just isn't that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
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02-09-2019, 09:57 AM6warddude
if the knicks do land the number one pick and we trade AD to them,,,i do believe we will build a young team around jrue and then trade jrue for more young players..see which two pan out and sign them to their next contract and that way we will have our 3 main pieces lock in to build around and see what our future look like on the court....
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02-09-2019, 10:08 AMDarkhorse985
I really think we need a clean slate by firing Demps and Gentry after the season. This organization has been presented as one of the worst in the NBA. We need to save face with a clean slate and build around Jrue and the young talent we get for AD. The AD trade will be the most important transaction that this organization has made since drafting AD. Benson and Loomis can’t afford to ******** this up if the Pelicans want to remain a viable franchise.
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02-09-2019, 10:12 AMDr. Sting
What's even crazier about all of this is that with the exception of Sacramento and the Lakers, everyone in front of us for the 8th spot is tanking. In retrospect, if none of this happens, there is a good chance we make the playoffs.
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02-09-2019, 10:40 AMWildlifeAirGrp
Hiring Becky Hammon changes the narrative for sure....and I know many will poo poo that idea but hiring Jeff Van Gundy (while impressive last night) or the like does nothing to move the fan interest meter. Staying on script with what NBA team should do has gotten us to this point. We are starting to lose the battle - thanks in large part to the media/AD/Lebron/ClutchSports driven narrative. Let's not lose the war.
We have to be crazy bold with our next moves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2_qjmgwCT8 -
02-09-2019, 10:47 AMPelicanidae
I wouldn't even mind that. She's 6x WNBA all-star, 4x all WNBA. Sure the WNBA competition isn't the same as the NBA competition, but that's still nothing to just hand-wave away.
Add that to her 5 years as an assistant coach for the Spurs (the same team system that coaches like Mike Budenholzer came out of), coached a Summer League championship team, I have a degree of faith in her both from understanding the player's mindset, but also as someone with experience working in a coaching scenario at the highest level with Pop.
It would be a radical change, and would shake up the narrative about the team. Mrs Benson as owner and Hammon as coach would be interesting and would definitely show a dedication for the team to do something a little different. And Hammon is definitely qualified. -
02-09-2019, 10:48 AMbahmamambaI like her and think she's going to be good but is she ready now?Quote:
Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp
Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk -
02-09-2019, 10:52 AMPelicanidae5 years with Pop and a summer league championship isn't nothing. She's still a little green I guess, but Jason Kidd had 0 years of coaching experience before he took over as head coach for the Nets, and I've seen a few people suggest him as a replacement for Gentry.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahmamamba
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02-09-2019, 11:01 AMbahmamambaGod no lol no idea why people want that dude lol but yeah if anything I hope we atleast interview her if gentry is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-09-2019, 11:03 AMPelicanidaeYeah, you've gotta at least give her a call. I think it could be a good move. Full clean house of the front office and coaching staff, and starting off with someone new, unique, and promising like Hammon could be a great move for the franchise. There's always a chance that it wouldn't pay off, but I think it's a safe enough bet to at least give her a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahmamamba
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02-09-2019, 11:07 AMbahmamambaidk about full clean coaching staff I like what's his face who works with the bigs he stayed on even after monty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-09-2019, 11:11 AMPelicanidaeOh right sure, I don't really mean fire everyone. I meant new head coach, new defensive co-ordinator, new GM. I can handle keeping some of the other guys on, but Gentry, Erman, and Dell can all go.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahmamamba
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02-09-2019, 11:14 AMbahmamambaOh yeah definitely lol I think dell is definitely gone and idk I think gentry is here one more year atleast and hopefully becky isn't snatched before next yearQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-09-2019, 11:17 AMPelicanidaeFrankly speaking, and it's no slight on Gentry because we've all seen that his system can work when there's a full team equipped to run it with confidence, but I don't want him near the rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by bahmamamba
If we get Zion, I don't want Gentry's run-and-shoot system pushed into him. I don't want him being taught that defense is optional as long as you gun threes. I want a new head coach, who knows how to actually run an offense and who places value on defense. I think Hammon could be that coach, especially with her experience training in Summer League. -
02-09-2019, 11:21 AM13 - 3
Hiring JVG would be like the Raiders hiring Gruden. The game has changed since he last coached and likely will be out of touch.
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02-09-2019, 11:21 AMbahmamambaI completely agree I just think they'll want one more year of bad basketball and having gentry would help with that so well see but I definitely see dell gone so that should be atleast half way good thing going forward lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-09-2019, 11:24 AMTinmanSo, what happens when we beat Memphis & Orlando & are 2-3 games out of 8th by All-Star break? Just sayin!Quote:
Originally Posted by bahmamamba
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02-09-2019, 11:25 AMdonato
I'd prefer to keep Dell. I'd like for ownership to tell Dell he has freedom to build slowly without an order for quick fixes. I'm fine with rolling the dice with Hammon to replace Gentry.
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02-09-2019, 11:26 AMbahmamambamost of our players come down with a cold? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
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02-09-2019, 11:26 AMPelicanidaeI cry a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
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02-09-2019, 11:28 AMPelicanidaeI've said elsewhere that I'm not entirely sure what to think about Dell. I wouldn't mind keeping him TOO much, because he has made some good moves for the last couple of seasons. He hasn't shown himself to be completely useless in all respects, and he does appear to have improved over time. As long as he commits to rebuilding properly, keeping our draft picks, and not trying to rush, I don't think keeping him would be the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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02-09-2019, 11:55 AMTinmanDon't worry! MVP will never quit you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-09-2019, 01:04 PMluckymanQuote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
And we shouldnt make the mistake of thinking you can build a championship franchise just through the draft. AD would still be demanding a trade today becuase this franchise wouldn't be any better off. Dell conceivably brought over equal or better players than any draft capital would have and it did not work out for a number of reasons.
I mean look at your golden child 76ers now? Theyve just done what the Pelicans have been doing x1,000. Theyve just shuffled off draft picks, at their lowest value, for players due for max contracts THIS SUMMER. There's your "process" for you.
It takes a team that can balance good drafts, good trades, and signing good FAs with upside. The last part is where this franchise and many other smaller markets cannot compete. It doesn't matter how well run or winning this fracnhise is, the best FAs in this ESPN/super agent influenced league will always run to the top 6 markets. And it doesn't matter how well run or winning THEY are.
Which is why again, if you are a Pelicans fan, you are doing nothing but chasing your own tail. It's a humongous waste of time. The Pelicans are a farm team at best. -
02-09-2019, 01:25 PMRobertM320I'm surprised no one has brought this up before. We blame Dell for a lot of stuff, but how much of it was really by choice? I mean, we all know Benson was up in age and was pushing for immediate results. So Dell did his best to bring in vets and try to build an immediate winner around AD, instead of following a slower but more sound approach through the draft and being more selective with vets and free agents.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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02-09-2019, 01:29 PMDr. StingOKC and San Antonio are small markets and they have all done far better than the Pels. We can do much better as well with the right leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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02-09-2019, 01:36 PMWildlifeAirGrpYeah, OKC is right there with Shreveport. But San Antonio has the population base (7th largest city in the US) and love downtown there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Sting
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02-09-2019, 01:42 PMluckymanYou're not reading it correctly or not understanding the point. The poing is about getting and keeping enough talent to win championsips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Sting
San Antonio is an outlier and yet, they still just lost thier best player, whom they drafted, to a larger market. They wont be winning anything anytime soon. They did worse than the Pelicns last season.
OKC has not come close to winning anything since Durant left. They did worse than the Pelicans last season. -
02-09-2019, 01:45 PMPelicanidaeI don't mean to sound silly, but can you just clarify for me: are you saying that the Sixers are currently in a bad position?Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
Cause they only have like, $40m fully guaranteed on their salary sheet going into this free agency. Don't need to resign Simmons until next summer, Embiid is locked up through 2023, Zhaire Smith is on cheap team control until 2022.
Yeah they have to resign Tobias Harris and Jimmy Butler, but they have like $60m to do it with, and they have bird rights for both. -
02-09-2019, 01:50 PMluckymanThey truthfully dont have that much. They have no depth and they will certainly move to get some. That roster, as is, is not sustainable. So most likely they are not going to actively try to resign both even with Bird rights. Nor are they guranteed to resign the one they will go after, since it's up to the player and his market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
So nobody called it a "bad position". But it's not ideal either. Unless making runs for half a season at a time is the goal. -
02-09-2019, 02:05 PMda ThRONeThe Spurs and the Thunder have built championship cores via only the draft. It just requires the right talent evaluators. And that's not to say we have to do it all via the draft but it certainly needs to start there. Build up several top picks and then move on from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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02-09-2019, 02:12 PMPelicanidaeAgreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
The Thunder drafted Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. Yes, they made the error of paying Ibaka instead of keeping Harden, but they still drafted that core. That's championship material.
Golden State drafted Curry, Klay, and Draymond. Yes, they added Durant after, but they still went to 2 consecutive finals and won a ring without him, just with that drafted core.
Spurs, obviously, drafted Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili. The Spurs won 5 rings off the back of those drafting choices.
It is possible for teams, even small market teams, to draft up championship level cores. They just need to scout properly, do their due diligence, and have a smart front office and solid player development. Yes, there is a question of whether we have the personnel to do that, but the fact is that it's a place we should start. -
02-09-2019, 02:28 PMluckymanSo we're pointing out the outliers as if thats the norm? The Spurs didnt tank for high draft picks. They scouted well and got some late 1st and even 2nd round picks right. Kahwi Leonard was not a lottery pick. Yet, he's not there anymore. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
And even of those three, the Thunder didnt win anything. At first chance for that core to break up, it broke up.
For every Spurs/Warriors (not a small market btw), there is a Phoenix, Orlando, Sacramento, Minnesota, and OKC.
You obviously need to draft well if not to make moves than just for depth, but all other routes are just as important. Which both San Antonio and Golden St turned to to help move their success forward recently. -
02-09-2019, 02:45 PMPelicanidaeWhen the Warriors drafted Curry in 2009, they were the 18th most valuable NBA team. Just because they're in California does not mean they were a big value franchise.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
The Spurs' entire success story was written around Tim Duncan, who they drafted. Sure, they didn't tank for him, Robinson was injured, but the result was the same: they began to win because they drafted their franchise's future. Kawhi Leonard was not a lottery pick, sure, but I didn't say that we needed to desperately just cram lottery picks and that guarantees you a future.
The Thunder made a two conference finals and a finals. No, they didn't end up winning a championship, but they won more than this franchise ever has. If we're talking about building that level of success, I'll take it every day and twice on the Sunday.
I literally said in the post that you're quoting ''It is possible for teams, even small market teams, to draft up championship level cores.''
Where does that say ''we only need to draft ever, that guarantees you championships, other routes are not at all important, also only lottery picks.''? -
02-09-2019, 04:24 PMGermanPelican42
Hello @all,
i have a Question special at the local fans.
I saw a list, where the pels stand on last position. NO is the smalest market in NBA. i hear about the contract with the SKCenter, that it ends soon. (2021?)
Whats you opinion? Did the pels have a future in NO after 2021?
AD will left the team and my hopes that the pels could touch more Fans in NO with a Franchiceplayer AD and a good Team arround him goes to zero now.
Im realy afraid that the AD thing is a start to a slow dead for the whole Basketball in NO. -
02-09-2019, 04:34 PMDarkHornetIf not the draft, where are you going to get your talent, especially as a small market? If you're the Knicks, you can be horrible for decades, then in one season clear cap space and still think you have a reasonable chance to get star players wanting to come play for you. If you're New Orleans, you're not signing players unless you grossly overpay. We are forced to build via either the draft or trades, until we get to the point that our franchise has a reputation like the Spurs that makes players want to play for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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02-09-2019, 04:45 PMRobertM320Exactly. And that's exactly the path the Saints have taken. They built through the draft and trades, and free agency (Brees). Brees and Payton have created a situation where players now WANT to play in New Orleans. I actually heard Brees in a recent interview say that he's constantly heard from players that left here saying they "didn't realize how good they had it here." Also, players on other teams wishing they were on the Saints. Its so much harder on small markets, especially in the NBA where the playing field isn't level to begin with, but it can be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHornet
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02-09-2019, 05:00 PMMythrolHi German Pel,Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanPelican42
No I find it very unlikely that the Pelicans leave in 2021 . Gayle Benson who owns them pushed her husband to buy the team because she wanted them so badly. She is New Orleans completely. The fact that their other sports team (The New Orleans Saints) are also there and also owned by Mrs Benson makes it extremely unlikely they would ever split the teams up.
The only way that I could think of the Pelicans leaving in 2021 is if Mrs Benson passes away and whoever the team was left to wanted no part of them and sold them with the new owner wanting to leave Louisiana.
As long as Mrs Benson is alive I'd put the chances at under 1% that the team leaves New Orleans. -
02-09-2019, 06:56 PMluckymanWho said anything about ignoring the draft? Can you find I said that?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHornet
Did I not repeatedly say, for years now, that every avenue is as important in building your team (draft, trades, FA)?
So, is my main point that when it comes time that you need to attract a FA, smaller market teams like the Pelicans are going to struggle? And that teams like the Pelicans are therefore, basically, just a farm team?
Sure we can draft them. OKC drafted them. But when these players finally mature and reach their peaks as players, is exactly when they are free to leave and sign as a FA elsewhere. AS most of them have.
Again, not even a well run, winning franchsie like the Spurs were able to keep their best player, whom they drafted, from wanting out. This is the new ESPN/NBA... -
02-10-2019, 04:46 AMDr. StingAgreed. As long as Mrs. Benson is around they aren't going anywhere. She says that she told her late husband Tom Benson to overpay the NBA for the team because she wanted to secure their remaining in New Orleans so badly. This was confirmed by the former NBA Commissioner David Stern, who said that he would have taken less. The big question is who does the team go to after she passes away? I am not sure if she has any living heirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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02-10-2019, 06:26 AMAusPel
Kenrich will inherit the team once Gayle passes. It's his city now.
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02-10-2019, 12:55 PMDarkHornetWhere did I accuse you of saying we should ignore the draft? I never said that. I only said that we don't have the luxury of adding good players in their prime via free agency unless we are going to grossly overpay. For every problem holding onto a player entering their prime from wanting out, we're going to have twice that trying to convince someone who is not in our organization to join it.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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02-10-2019, 05:27 PMtacosmanlmao...I've disagreed with some on this forum that the knicks would def give up the #1 for ad, but if it is other teams(and there is an overwhelming chance it is) they are NOT going to do that deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Sting
Say it's atlanta for example. No way in hell they give up all those team controlled years at a lesser cap number for 1 year of AD. Not even close. -
02-10-2019, 05:34 PMTinmanThanks for the knowledge. Very informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by tacosman
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02-10-2019, 10:21 PMtacosman
it's just that people are underappreciating how incredibly valuable a rookie who could actually play star level basketball is.....if Zion is picked by a team he ends up not loving, they control him for a minimum(counting the QO if needed) of FIVE years...at a lesser cap number(even for a #1 pick...its still rookie structure).
So compare getting Zion to signing some star...let's say Kyrie. Will Zion be a more impactful player than Kyrie over those 5 yes? Maybe, maybe not....probably not next yea but good chance by year 3.
But......when you adjust for their cap numbers under team controlled rookie deal vs not the value becomes even more apparent.
It's why I would be surprised if we get Zion even if the knicks get the pick. Other teams(where him signing isnt a guarantee)....not even a question