Quite good 'The Ringer' article on Zion's return

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Anthony Davis is one of the top 10 or 15 defenders in the NBA, is switchable, can defend the paint and the perimeter, against guys at a variety of positions and heights. That's just the reality of the situation. We all know he can be lazy on that end, and that inconsistency hurts him (it probably cost him a DPOY in 2017-18) but when he's locked in he's as good as anyone. We all saw that during the Portland sweep a few seasons ago, and he's been a finalist for DPOY three times because of it, and will very possibly win it this year.

---

I think this is pretty accurate. All players have some other player that gives him fits. If I recall, I think Embiid played AD pretty well also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

However, a large part of the Lakers dominance has been due to their stellar defense inside and rim protection provided by two oft-overlooked players: Javale McGee and Dwight Howard. Their offensive shortcomings have been made irrelevant as long as LBJ and AD stay healthy.

---

The reason McGee and Howard have been effective defensively is because AD and Lebron are two of the best defensive players in the NBA when engaged, not the other way around. If Howard/McGee was our center in place of Favors, our defense would be a dumpster fire.

Let's also not understate how the Lakers had one of the easiest first leg of the season strength of schedules. That's part of why they have dropped 4 out of their last 10 when they only lost 3 out of their first 27.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

The reason McGee and Howard have been effective defensively is because AD and Lebron are two of the best defensive players in the NBA when engaged, not the other way around. If Howard/McGee was our center in place of Favors, our defense would be a dumpster fire.

---

Synergy is the keyword in basketball most people and sports journalists forget about, why the sum of certain pieces can be greater than the whole. And this is applicable both on offense and defense, so to an extent, you are correct, but to also not credit their contributions and what they are capable of IF MOTIVATED--which is to say, I am not at all convinced these two individuals would be motivated on a losing Pelicans team vs. a team in which they will draw the wrath of LBJ and AD if they are not giving 100% (Dwight would probably revert to the primadonna 'pass the ball to me in the post alpha or I ain't playing D' nightmare he has been for quite a while if her were on the Pels)--is a simple lack of understanding.

So, syngery aside, which accounts for some of their success, the last part of your statement is likely correct, but for other reasons.

The point is, there are likely some other motivated bigs that bring a similar skillset that Favors has--his defensive skillset is not so unique or rare as his advanced stats make him out to be, people love taking stats out of context. He's doing great for us, and on a decent contract he should be kept, but he ain't a defensive unicorn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Let's also not understate how the Lakers had one of the easiest first leg of the season strength of schedules. That's part of why they have dropped 4 out of their last 10 when they only lost 3 out of their first 27.

---

Yeah, I said this earlier in the year as well. Someone was asking if the Lakers had already peaked and I said probably not, they'll play better than this, but their super easy schedule to start things off has amplified their strengths and hidden their weaknesses. They're probably playing better now overall, but their record has been less stellar because they're actually facing some better competition now.

It's a similar thing to us, but in reverse. We're going to look a lot stronger in the second half of the season than the first, and some of it will be because we're playing better, but the way the schedule softens up helps us a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 6warddude

i want to see zion at the 3 also........ingram,,zion,,hayes at the 2,3 and 4 positions and build around that in 2022 when hayes should be developed.....

---

I agree about Ingram as a 2guard. Not sure about Haynes at the 4. If he can develop a jumper out to the 3pt line it could work. Other wise I'd like to see him bulk up a little and man the paint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

The point is, there are likely some other motivated bigs that bring a similar skillset that Favors has--his defensive skillset is not so unique or rare as his advanced stats make him out to be, people love taking stats out of context. He's doing great for us, and on a decent contract he should be kept, but he ain't a defensive unicorn.

---

I don't think anyone is arguing that Favors skillset is unique. What makes favors so unique defensively is his defensive IQ and his understanding of the game. The reason Favors' advanced stats have been so good throughout his career is because he knows exactly what position to be in at all time and he's extremely fundamentally sound when challenging shots.

There's tons of bigs in the NBA right now with skills far greater than Favors (guys like Drummond and Whiteside come to mind), but they don't have the same elite IQ that Favors has. He's up there with Gasol in terms of understanding of the game on that end. I'm not going to sit here and say that this is impossible to find. It's quite possible that Jax learns these techniques from Favors and we have the best of both worlds, but if you're going to try to argue that JaVale McGee and 34 year old Dwight Howard could have a similar impact on this team if engaged, I simply don't agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is ridiculous :hihi:

I mean, I get that people on this board, and Pelicans fans in general, have this distaste towards AD for obvious and totally justifiable reasons, but if we're getting to the point where we say ''AD isn't a multi-positional defender because Kevin Durant scores on him'' is a thing people are saying in all seriousness it's time to just pack up and go.

Kevin Durant scores on everyone, because he's an elite scorer. Just like how AD regularly tore up Draymond Green when we played the Warriors (AD averages 25/13/3 on 59% TS against Golden State in his career) or how Zion dropped 26pts on 75% shooting against Rudy Gobert almost entirely in the paint. Great scorers score, even on good defense.

That doesn't mean Draymond Green isn't an elite defender, or that Gobert isn't good at defending the paint.

Anthony Davis is one of the top 10 or 15 defenders in the NBA, is switchable, can defend the paint and the perimeter, against guys at a variety of positions and heights. That's just the reality of the situation. We all know he can be lazy on that end, and that inconsistency hurts him (it probably cost him a DPOY in 2017-18) but when he's locked in he's as good as anyone. We all saw that during the Portland sweep a few seasons ago, and he's been a finalist for DPOY three times because of it, and will very possibly win it this year.

---

Anyone who says AD can guard any position on the floor is 100xs more ridiculous and absurd than someone who points out that top end players (not just Durant) can score on him repeatedly. When someone takes the time to type out their point fully, read the whole thing. I even clearly typed out that even though guys like Durant score on everybody, a true DPOY type defender can manage to slow him down and make him inefficient while scoring 35. AD cannot do that.

This is not just some angry Pelicans fans throwing �� at AD now that he is a Laker. I've said that when he was here. He cannot guard 1s and 2s or All Star caliber 3s. He is nowhere near as switchable as Draymond.

He is top 5 defending other bigs. My contention is anybody that takes that too far and says he can defend any position on the floor. AD doesn't have that kind of quickness and is simply not built for that. Never has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

He is top 5 defending other bigs. My contention is anybody that takes that too far and says he can defend any position on the floor. AD doesn't have that kind of quickness and is simply not built for that. Never has.

---

As a big, guarding any position on the floor and being switchable is more about the ability to switch in the PnR. Sure, you're not going to tell AD to go out and guard Kyrie for a whole night; but AD is as good as anyone in the league at switching on to guards and wings in the pick and roll. I think we can all agree that Gobert and Embiid are insanely good defenders, but theyre not in the same league as AD at switching when AD is full engaged. Draymond is in a category by himself. He's the best defender of this decade, and we shouldn't be using him as a comparison when determining someone's defensive abilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

As a big, guarding any position on the floor and being switchable is more about the ability to switch in the PnR. Sure, you're not going to tell AD to go out and guard Kyrie for a whole night; but AD is as good as anyone in the league at switching on to guards and wings in the pick and roll. I think we can all agree that Gobert and Embiid are insanely good defenders, but theyre not in the same league as AD at switching when AD is full engaged. Draymond is in a category by himself. He's the best defender of this decade, and we shouldn't be using him as a comparison when determining someone's defensive abilities.

---

In no sentence did I type that hes going to guard Kyrie all night either. Let's stop introducing ridiculous points nobody made.

In no situation will AD slow down a Kyrie Irving (or any talented wing) to the level a Kawhi, Draymond, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Giannis, Jrue, or a Jimmy Butler. He is a top defender near the paint and rim.

And nobody claims Embiid and Gobert are switchable on anybody. The same holds true for AD. Just becuaset he might be relatively better than those two at it doesn't mean he excels there either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

In no situation will AD slow down a Kyrie Irving (or any talented wing) to the level a Kawhi, Draymond, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Giannis, Jrue, or a Jimmy Butler. He is a top defender near the paint and rim.

---

Ok then to your exact point, other than Draymond and Giannis, no one on that list is slowing down AD, Embiid, Jokic; so by your definition of the term, they're not switchable either. There's zero point in arguing defensive value across positions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Ok then to your exact point, other than Draymond and Giannis, no one on that list is slowing down AD, Embiid, Jokic; so by your definition of the term, they're not switchable either. There's zero point in arguing defensive value across positions.

---

That illogical because 95% of the time, when it comes to those guys (or those positions), you're not going to see a switch. The 5% of the time it does happen, I wouldn't concede points will be scored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

That illogical because 95% of the time, when it comes to those guys (or those positions), you're not going to see a switch. The 5% of the time it does happen, I wouldn't concede points will be scored.

---

Well it looks like your mind is made up then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

As a big, guarding any position on the floor and being switchable is more about the ability to switch in the PnR. Sure, you're not going to tell AD to go out and guard Kyrie for a whole night; but AD is as good as anyone in the league at switching on to guards and wings in the pick and roll. I think we can all agree that Gobert and Embiid are insanely good defenders, but theyre not in the same league as AD at switching when AD is full engaged. Draymond is in a category by himself. He's the best defender of this decade, and we shouldn't be using him as a comparison when determining someone's defensive abilities.

---

Pretty much this.

Again, if anyone doubts AD's ability to do these things pelafanatic is talking about, go back to the Portland series and watch it. There are times in that series where it looks like AD is defending 3 guys at once in the same play. It's stunning to watch. AD's length, quickness, instinct, and timing when he's actually engaged are frightening and while yes, nobody is going to tell any real big to spend 48 minutes guarding a 6'3 PG with historically good handles like Kyrie, AD is quite simply the best big in the NBA when it comes to switching mid-action and fulfilling coverages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Pretty much this.

Again, if anyone doubts AD's ability to do these things pelafanatic is talking about, go back to the Portland series and watch it. There are times in that series where it looks like AD is defending 3 guys at once in the same play. It's stunning to watch. AD's length, quickness, instinct, and timing when he's actually engaged are frightening and while yes, nobody is going to tell any real big to spend 48 minutes guarding a 6'3 PG with historically good handles like Kyrie, AD is quite simply the best big in the NBA when it comes to switching mid-action and fulfilling coverages.

---

Well you have to show me video proof of that. In that series the Pelicans used more of a trapping/blitzing style defense, especially when the ball touched Lillard's hands. Meaning any switching big had guard help.