This ain't nba2k...and if booker becomes available, other teams will offer up way more to try and get him... no way will jrue who will be needing a new contract soon fetch in a young player who has been playing bonkers right now.
The Trade Machine is back! For those that want Devin Booker!
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08-12-2020, 05:37 PMPaKwAn
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08-12-2020, 07:34 PMFuncrusher
I've already gone on record that I think a deal with OKC would be viable. A package like, Jrue & Melli plus a first for CP3 is doable, and I think it's in New Orleans best interest to maximize Zion's skillset (at least, in the early stages of his career) with a lead initiator that can:
A) space the floor with some threshold of a pullup game
B) capably feed Zion in the half court and utilize his insane interior gravity.
As Dae said, Lillard is probably the ideal player in this mold, because he provides so much of A, I mean, 40% on 7 pullup 3s speaks for itself, but Paul, being arguably the greatest mid range shooter of all time, is no slouch either, and conversly, provides so much of B (seriously, we could actually run a PnR without the hedge man just dropping back or the on ball defender going under because there's no threat of the pullup J, *cough,lonzo,cough*, and you'd have someone that can actually make advanced reads in those situations as well, *cough,jrue,cough*).
Paul's not a Jrue level defender anymore (mostly because he can't go all out for 30 min anymore and has to conserve energy) but what he lacks in consistency he can sort of make up for as a kind of pseudo-floor genereal, (simliar to LeBron in the sense that he's like a second coach on defense and is constantly talking, communicating, directing players where to be/rotate) which I think is an underrated quality that Jrue lacks (certainly not the most vocal of teammates). I think he could really help guys like Zion & Ingram in that sense.
Of course, it has to be considered that Paul might not have many prime years left, and the question thus arises in such a scenario where we get Paul, what is our outlook in the next couple of years? Are we just trying to build up competitiveness, or are we looking to full on contend? Personally, my vision is the latter, but I can understand those that think we shouldn't rush the rebuild. Regardless, it's an enticing scenario to me if he's not really sought after this offseason (though he probably will be, I could definitely see the Bucks, Heat, Nuggets going after him), because i don't think it would take many assets to get him. -
08-12-2020, 08:00 PMdonato
Chris Paul is 35 years old. Is the goal to possibly make the second round of the playoffs for a year or two, or is it to win a championship? Hard pass.
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08-12-2020, 08:01 PMAs I See ItThisQuote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-12-2020, 08:16 PMMichaelMcNamaraJrue's value is directly tied to GiannisQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
In a world in which he doesnt sign an extension, 5-6 teams will be doing whatever they need to do to save cap room to make a run for him. If he extends, guys like Jrue and Beal's trade value goes up 150%. If you are in the trade Jrue camp, pray for Giannis to sign an extension this offseason. -
08-12-2020, 08:17 PMFuncrusherI don't think those two things have to be mutually exclusive, though. And as bad as his contract is, he only has two years left. He'll be 36 at the end of it. Will he be drastically worse by that point? He could, but I doubt it (barring injury). Right now, he's a top 10 player. I honestly think it's a pretty low risk move. I don't think it would like, set the franchise back 10 years or something to be in win now mode. We shouldn't be tanking next year anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-12-2020, 08:20 PMPelicanidae
I have mixed views on a CP3 trade.
For the sake of this discussion I'm just assuming OKC would do it; who knows if they actually would, given how well set up they are right now.
Firstly, it's absolutely true that this team needs a vocal leader, and a guy who can seriously, properly run offense. CP3 is clearly still that guy. He can still create for others and for himself at a high level, and he barks all game long every game. Love it or hate it, the man talks and runs his team.
He's still a very high level passer and is still probably one of the top five decision makers in NBA history. Nobody denies, whether they support trading for him or not, that he can set up an offense and run it properly and effectively, and that's still 100% true. The dude just knows exactly what he's doing all the time and it's awesome to watch. And he may be having one of the most all around efficient scoring seasons of all time. So far this year he is 27 points per 100 on the following efficiencies:
0-3 feet: 85.2%
3-10 feet: 50.5%
10-16 feet: 52.5%
16 feet to the line: 52.5%
3pt line: 37%.
That's just dumb. It's just absurd. And it's not like that's an age related thing where he's taking more midrangers than ever; his shots are at pretty much the same distribution as they were 4 or 5 years ago. It's so dumb I can barely even believe it, how effective he's been at just creating his own shots and getting them to drop everywhere, over everyone: only 12.5% of his 2pt shots are assisted for Christ's sake :hihi:
Secondly is the defense. As Funcrusher writes, he's not 100% all the time anymore, but he might be the small-man defender of all time still. There's some competition obviously and I'm not looking to argue but at 35 years of age I still trust him to put in effort and truly defend someone and do it well, which is impressive. His hands are still elite, his awareness is all-time level, and he's always in the right spot. And nobody denies his effort. He would be a fantastic leader for us.
The problems come in a few ways. Firstly is his contract and age; he's 35 and still has 2 years left on his deal after this one, adding up to basically $85m. That's a lot of money. I basically don't care about this too much to be honest. Anyone we acquire of major value will be done by trade anyway so the cap space issue doesn't bother me too much and given his level of play now at 35, I don't see why I should expect it to turn into powder at 36; Stockton was still producing valuable play at age 39 and even 40 by some measures, and while yes CP3 has had more injury problems than he did, his level of play at this age gives some confidence.
The second biggest issue, and the one I actually worry about, is on-ball play. He is a massively on-ball player historically and in order to have Zion hit his full potential, I want him handling the ball a good chunk of the time, and that's without even getting to Ingram who needs it sometimes too. Now, it's true that CP3 did play a lot more off-ball in Houston and has proven that he can do it effectively, but it's also known that he had some issues with the distribution of that ball handling at the time. In fairness, Harden was extremely ball dominant, whereas I can imagine duties being split a tad more equally here in New Orleans, but it's still something to have concerns over. Do you want to bring in someone who has the potential to usurp all lead ballhandling activities completely? That's a real worry.
Overall, I think I probably still go for it, essentially hoping that CP3 will be willing to take a slightly more backseat role from time to time as long as he still gets his chances. It would require trading Jrue pretty much certainly, but as much as I love Jrue I might be willing to accept that due to the personality fit: Jrue is simply too quiet, which works alongside another vocal leader but we don't have one. Maybe Zion will be that in three years, but he's not now. -
08-12-2020, 08:20 PMPelicanidaeThat's pushing it, but top 20? Yeah probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-12-2020, 08:23 PMFuncrusher
Would also maybe take a look at Oladipo as well, I think he could really end up breaking out again next year and it's another relatively low risk move (don't know if I'd trade Jrue in that scenario, though)
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08-12-2020, 08:31 PMPelicanidaeI wouldn't really do that, I think. Basically brings the same issues Jrue has (not really a true lead guard, not really a great shooter, etc etc) but with the added risk of massive massive recent injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-12-2020, 08:38 PMFuncrusherYeah, that's fair. Which goes to show how few and far between primary initiator types are on the (theoretical at this point) market. I can really only think of Paul, Booker (who like you said would prolly require a kings ransom) VanVleet, and after that it's a serious struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-13-2020, 10:09 AMpelafanaticI mean sure, but explain to me how Boston plans on trading a 30 year old undersized point guard who makes 38 mil in 2022-2023. So they can't move Kemba and the won't move Tatum. We would need to hope that they'd become desperate enough to move Brown prior to guys like Beal, Booker, KAT become available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-13-2020, 11:47 AMPELICANSFANWouldn't add a 1st. CP3 would be great with these young players though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-13-2020, 02:04 PMTaker597It took Curry 6 years to win a chip. It won't hurt to have a Vet Leader to help build a foundation. We got plenty of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-13-2020, 04:54 PM13 - 3
No we don’t need Booker we have Jrue Holiday. LOL at that comment.
Too bad Jrue Holiday is not like Devin Booker in the bubble.
No comparison
Booker > Holiday -
08-13-2020, 05:25 PMPelicanidaeCan you point out to me where anyone said that Jrue was better than Devin Booker?Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3