Attachment 6403
Boston Adds Another Weapon for AD Trade?
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03-27-2019, 07:12 AMHoochicanBoston Adds Another Weapon for AD Trade?
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03-27-2019, 08:43 AMDroopyDawg
I doubt Boston has any competition in this trade for AD (as far as assets go). We're not dealing with the Lakers... I think the Pels organization feels so screwed by the Lakers that they won't trade with them. With the way Zion looks I doubt the Knicks would give up the #1 pick for AD in a trade (if they win the lottery). Our options might be Boston only, and with AD not committing I doubt they'd add Tatum to the deal (they said he's in the mix but I'm not expecting him).
These extra picks could help. We may need to prepare ourselves for a full rebuild from the bottom-up. I hope Boston would send Tatum, Brown, Rozier and Marcus Smart but that's a dreamer haul. I just hope whoever takes over as GM we have a plan, and see it through rather than do this "young veteran" crap that cap-straps us for years. -
03-27-2019, 08:51 AMTinmanThere will be 29 teams presenting offers for AD. To assume Boston will be the only avenue is very narrow minded. This trade doesn't have to be binary. Several teams can be involved .Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
Also- if the Knicks get the #1 pick, they trade Zion for AD in a nanosecond. -
03-27-2019, 11:58 AMNola3
The only problem with Boston having all these picks is that this is such a shallow class and the value of all those mid-to-late teens picks isn't really all that high. I still think they have the best offer to put on the table, but this draft doesn't give us the best use of what would usually be colossal draft capital.
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03-27-2019, 12:05 PMSilverfoxx
People really think a proven MVP canidate in his prime will not be traded for unproven college phenom ?
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03-27-2019, 12:27 PMTinmanMindBoggling !Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
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03-27-2019, 12:42 PMSmontySwilliamsIDK, Imagine if the Pels trade AD on draft day 2012 for 1 or 2 in MVP race of 2011. Bulls would have gotten AD (now 26) for Derrick Rose (then 22) or Orlando AD for Dwight Howard (then 25). Not that they we're offered but we went with the raw unproven inexpensive rookie phenom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
I'm not disagreeing with you but I don't think it's so cut and dry.
I wouldn't count PHX out either. Is there a package with them for 1 or even 2 overall? Is Ja Morant worth going after if Zion is for sure NY bound? AD goes PHX as the veteran All-Star leader. The spacing he can give Booker... -
03-27-2019, 01:13 PMTinmanAnthony Davis is 1000% better than Rose was. & 100000% better than Dwight Howard. 28-12-6 average at age 26. There is zero comparison between AD & those 2 guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmontySwilliams
Plus, I lay a dime to a donut that there are zero GMs using the "in 2012" logic.
Again IMHO, there is Zero question that Knicks trade Zion to get AD.
30 out of 30 GM's would trade Zion to get Giannis , right? No brainer. So, AD=Giannis ? #'s say yes. -
03-27-2019, 01:52 PMml wave
Again, the motivation for NY is not just to get AD but also to pair him with KD and Kyrie (or other max free agent). Kyrie and KD have less than zero interest in spending the prime of their careers playing with rookies.
Also, while I'm at it. There is almost no chance Rozier will be part of a trade with Boston since he will be a restricted free agent. This means that he'd have to agree to a sign and trade, and why exactly would he do that? -
03-27-2019, 02:35 PMPelicanidaeYeah... you're right. No comparison between AD and those guys. Let me just prove it quick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
Derrick Rose, MVP year: 25pts, 4.1rbds, 7.7asts, 1.0stls, 0.6blks, 44.5% fg, 33.2% 3pt, 85.8% FT, +10 Net Rating, 23.5 PER, 13.1 total win shares, .208 WS/48, 5.9 BPM, 6.0 VORP
Dwight Howard, best year: 20.7pts, 14.2rbds, 1.3asts, 0.9stls, 2.1blks, 59.9% FG, 0.00% 3pt, 59% FT, +19 Net Rating, 26.1 PER, 14.4 total win shares, .235 WS/48, 4.8 BPM, 5.0 VORP
Anthony Davis last season: 28.1pts, 11.1 rbds, 2.3asts, 1.3stls, 2.6blks, 53.4% FG, 34% 3pt, 83% FT, +17 Net Rating, 28.9 PER, 13.7 total win shares, .241 WS/48, 5.2 BPM, 4.9 VORP
Anthony Davis this year before the trade request: 29.3pts, 13.3rbds, 4.4asts, 1.7stls, 2.6blks, 51% FG, 33% 3pt, +18 Net Rating, 31.3 PER.
Even after the trade request lowering his minutes and thus lowering his output, he's gonna finish this season with more than 10 total win shares, averaging over .240 WS/48, for the third time in his career.
Wanna know the list of other NBA players who have averaged at least .240 WS/48 at least three times in their careers? Well, since the introduction of the 3pt line, that list of players looks like this: Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Steph Curry, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, James Harden, Lebron James, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Paul, and David Robinson. That's it.
That list is pure diamond talent, top to bottom. Every single player on that list is a guaranteed, certified, no questions asked lock for the hall of fame, if they aren't already in it. Anthony Davis' name is on that list already, aged 26.
There is no GM worth their salt who looks at AD and thinks ''yeah, this guy is Derrick Rose level''. He's way beyond that. -
03-27-2019, 08:32 PMSmontySwilliams
We didn't shop AD's pick around for an All-Star, because he was perceived to be a generational talent, much like Zion. The #1 pick can be and has been more coveted that the league's best veteran players.
Who is saying any GM thinks AD is Derrick Rose level? Conjecture. I'm pointing out AD when drafted in regards to the two best players in the league that year to Zion being drafted in regards to AD one of the best players in the league this year. Thanks for your spin. You've made a false representation of my point to one which is easily disproved. Typical.
Since you brought up Garnett, even his 7 for 1 deal had a top 3 protection on Bostons #1 pick and he had already won an MVP. -
03-27-2019, 09:12 PMmsusousaphone
I'll also add, the team that loses out on AD stands to lose more than what they would win if they get him.
If LAL doesn't get him, they now have to rebuild EVERYTHING. Literally everything but LeBron.
If NYK, loses out and say....Boston...gets him and entices Kyrie to stay, Boston absolutely light it up that season. When the season ends and LAL is totally gutted, AD could very easily decide to stay in Boston. They become the new Eastern superpower. NY missing AD isn't just them missing a player, it also means it's highly likely the next super power forms in their own conference.
Same for Boston, if they miss out and NYK get him, and let's say one of those other rumors pans out and NY gets KD or Kyrie.....boom.....the new superpower is in their conference.
There are some elite FAs that may be waiting to see where AD lands that helps our position a ton because the fear of another team getting AD and convincing one or two of those elite FAs to join in will be scaring them to break it up. -
03-27-2019, 10:05 PMJJackisangry
The Knicks would be stupid not to offer Zion if they have a chance at Kyrie and Durant. AD will bring talent with him. Zion will not coerce those players.
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03-27-2019, 10:20 PMTinman
He wasn't shipped because nobody was willing to offer a generational 26yr old 6'11" freak of nature that is a 5 tier player. Name anybody that was as good as AD is now,in 2012 that was made available? You are comparing "after the fact" Derrick Rose. It would be complete lunacy if New York didn't trade Zion for AD. I mean, like true LUNACY.
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03-27-2019, 10:24 PMTinmanNot even mentioning that AD would make Knicks instant Playoff contenders. Zion would NOT. He would be a draw, but his W/L differential would be minimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
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03-28-2019, 03:46 AMpelicanchampZion will be better than AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
03-28-2019, 05:19 AMPelicanidaeYou have absolutely no way of knowing that. Zion is all potential, but has yet to prove ANYTHING on an NBA level.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
AD is arguably the best player in the league when engaged, should already have a DPOY, top three MVP finish twice by the age of 26. More 40/15 games than anyone since 1990, including Shaq. AD is a transcendent talent, proven, entering his prime. Zion is totally unproven and is years away from peak performance. -
03-28-2019, 07:01 AMTinmanVery informative you are. & Silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
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03-28-2019, 08:09 AMHoochicanQuote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
Link? -
03-28-2019, 12:44 PMpelicanchamp
Come on!!!! Are you guys BLIND???? Lmao this is the next Lebron James. You think my statement is unreasonable? Watch him play. I’m comfortable with saying he will be better than AD. Watch him play. He’s going to kill it in the NBA. This IS the next LeBron. Don’t be foolish. Yeah, he’s not in the league yet. He’s gonna be a rookie. He’ll have growing pains. BUT, when we talk around this time next year you will have more evidence that supports my claim. Zion is going to be better than AD. His physical ability and basketball IQ is unmatched. His skill set is more advanced than ADs skill set when AD was in college. Don’t give me your silly arguments about skill. AD has improved his skills dramatically over time but Zion is good at everything already. His handles and explosiveness are better than ADs were when AD was at Kentucky. This is not an opinion. His facilitation skills and IQ are equal and maybe a little higher than ADs when AD was at Kentucky. His ability to score and be aggressive and is already way through the roof. He’s going to kill everyone in the league. His defense is surreal. I know you guys think my claim is speculative but it really isn’t. It’s reasonable to believe that Zion could actually be better than AD. If Zion can improve 3 point shooting and develop the ability to be a primary ball handler it’s over. He will destroy opponents.
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03-28-2019, 12:54 PMPELICANSFANA lot of "ifs" to declare that he will be better than AD. He certainly could become better, but that is all a huge projection and not a definite.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
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03-28-2019, 01:09 PMPelicanidaeExactly my point, 100% agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Zion COULD end up better than AD. Sure, I don't think that's a ridiculous thing to say at all. It is totally possible.
But if you are a team (like the Knicks) and you have a chance to sign Kyrie and Durant and try to win a championship RIGHT NOW, and you have to pick who to add to that mixture, who do you pick? 18 year old rookie with mountains of promise but a risk of failure (even if that risk is 1% of something equally small), or do you pick the 26 year old 2x MVP finalist, 6x all-star and 5x all-NBA guy who puts up historic numbers on the regular?
If you pick the rookie in that situation, you're missing a trick. -
03-28-2019, 03:40 PMml wave
At some point, Zion will be better than AD. But that point likely won't be in the duration of the contracts that Kyrie and Durant will sign this summer. That is why NY would be willing to give up the pick. They do not (nor should they) care about 7 years from now.
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03-28-2019, 04:40 PMPelicanidaeI will say, maybe a controversial view here, that I don't actually think that's guaranteed. I'm totally open that it could happen, but I think that AD, when engaged, is truly a transcendentally talented basketball player. AD on his best night might be as good as pretty much anyone who's ever played.Quote:
Originally Posted by ml wave
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03-28-2019, 07:25 PMtdcreatorDavis is an awesome player. Zion is an athletic freak and that’s all we know. Zion being the next Lebron is crazy. If he could get even close to what AD can do now that would be a great career but personally I think he’ll be a good nba power forward that excels at grabbing boards and hustling. I’m not saying I don’t want him but people’s expectations of him are way overblown and he’s going to have a hard time meeting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-28-2019, 08:21 PMPelicanidaeI think Zion really does have all of the potential in the world. He could end up being a top ten player of all time. For all we know, he could end up being the next Lebron. But acting as if that's guaranteed is ludicrous.Quote:
Originally Posted by tdcreator
Zion is, like you say, an athletic freak. He's skilled in the post, he's got a good knack for rebounding, he's active on defense, he's a pretty sharp (if a little unimaginative) as a passer, and he's ultra efficient around the rim. All of that is great. If he can carry those skills through into the NBA, and even be average from three, he'll be a top ten player in the league without much issue. The problem is, is that the jump between ''top 10 player'' to ''best player in the league'' is a huge leap. Think about it this way:
Coming into this season, ESPN had Damian Lillard ranked as the 10th best player in the league. Their number 1 was Lebron James. Damian Lillard is amazing. He's got a bunch of skills, a great mindset, he plays hard, he's fearless, and he's got real heart. He's not Lebron James. His career best season doesn't match the worst season Lebron's had in the last decade (this season).
Damian Lillard 2016-17: 27pts, 4.9rbds, 5.9asts, 0.9stls, 0.3blks, 44.4% FG, 37% 3pt, +5 Net Rating, 4.3 BPM, 4.3 VORP, .185 WS/48, 24.1 PER
Lebron James this year: 27.9pts, 8.7rbds, 8.6asts, 1.4stls, 0.6blks, 51% FG, 33% 3pt, +6 Net Rating, 8.1 BPM, 4.9 VORP, .180 WS/48, 25.8 PER
Zion could easily end up being a Damian Lillard caliber player. Maybe he'll end up being an Embiid caliber player. But acting like he's just automatically in that Lebron, KD, Giannis, AD category as a given, before he even plays a single minute of NBA ball, is almost asking for him to disappoint you. -
03-29-2019, 10:46 AMMr. West
Even if Zion is better than AD, you look at how long it took AD to be AD, he would've been a total non-factor on a contending team his rookie and sophomore years. If the Knicks can put current AD, Kyrie and KD on a team together they really should do it. Add that team to the fact that the Warriors would be losing Durant and Lebron would likely not be getting AD for help and you could realistically win a championship next year.
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03-29-2019, 11:32 AMml waveI don't think it's guaranteed, but, given the age difference, I'd say it's extremely likely barring injury. Not that Zion will be better than prime AD, but that, say 2029 Zion will be better than 2029 AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-29-2019, 11:38 AMPelicanidaeWell, I agree with that, but that's not really the discussion that's I was having. I agree that when AD is 36 years old and Zion is only 28, Zion will almost certainly be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ml wave
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04-09-2019, 10:13 PMtacosmanummm...yes and it's not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
You're looking at things from a basketball only standpoint if you believe teams are going to give up zion for AD.
AD, as excellent as he is, isn't much in terms of star power. Relative to how good he is.
look at it this way- we all want/clamor for zion. There is...uh...a reason for that. a lot of it is the basketball, but it's more than that. And if we want something, then chances are other people really want it to. Damn if we win the lottery I can't wait to see zion dunking for us....holy sheeet. Thats a 10/10 excitement level. Other teams feel the same way. He already has 10x the charisma at age 18/19 than AD has as a veteran nba player....
there is absolutely no buzz or desire right now on the knicks forum to trade zion(if the 14% happens) for AD.
these threads involving zion are good for a laugh though...... -
04-09-2019, 10:17 PMtacosmanA damian lillard caliber player with zion's charisma and entertainment value is worth more than Anthony Davis to NBA teams. The value of a player in the nba to teams is more than just what his PER is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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04-09-2019, 10:44 PMPELICANSFANAnd we all know that those are the true decision makers!Quote:
Originally Posted by tacosman
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04-09-2019, 10:49 PMMythrolAn NBA championship is worth more than anything. If NYK think they can get Kyrie, KD, and AD on the same team they are gonna do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tacosman
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04-09-2019, 10:56 PMPelicanidaeIf forum posters were the decision makers, we would have traded AD to LA back in February to make certain names on here happy, Gentry would have lost his job well over a year ago to make other names on here happy, Dell Demps would have been fired in 2015, Demarcus Cousins would have been offered a full max to stay here, and we'd currently be paying Brandon Knight.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
So yeah, good thing forum posters don't actually hold all the keys. -
04-10-2019, 12:05 AMsmcgullThis is what I was thinking also. Knicks win a championship and Pelicans start over with Ja Morant or Zion. And also with a surprise superstar player at pick 6-9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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04-10-2019, 08:04 AMGant-
As far as Boston assets for a potential AD trade: The pre-lottery odds for the Memphis pick conveying or rolling forward will be determined tonight.
Either a Memphis loss to Golden State or a Dallas victory against San Antonio will send the pick into the future.*
If Memphis wins and Dallas loses, there will be a three way tie for the 7,8,9 draft spots between Memphis, Dallas, and New Orleans. Then, there will be a random drawing to determine the draft hierarchy among those teams.
After that, *the lottery could shake things up again. The odds now favor the pick not being conveyed this year, which would increase its value. -
04-10-2019, 12:01 PMml waveWhich is why many teams wouldn't make that trade if they won the lottery. A team trying desperately to win (think Knicks with Kyrie and KD), however, is only going to be concerned with basketball.Quote:
Originally Posted by tacosman
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04-10-2019, 10:37 PMGuardianAngel25Also add in the player/players we will likely get from the team along with their pick. This off season has the potential to completely change the course of this franchise and set us up as one of the best young and upcoming teams that can be great when a lot of these teams will be breaking up or old. We will be similar to the Sixers and Bucks imo where we can go make a couple of moves bringing in some good players once we think we are at that point to go win a championship. We hit on our 2 top 10 picks and trading AD will be the best thing that could have ever happened for us. I have a feeling the Knicks will be our trade partner which basically guarantees us a top 3 pick. I just don’t know what they will do if they get the 1st pick and have the chance to get Zion. I would be very happy with RJ or Ja as well and it would be a guarantee if we wanted to trade with them if that pick lands in the 2-3 range.Quote:
Originally Posted by smcgull
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04-11-2019, 08:03 AMGant-
In case you're wondering what picks might the Pelicans get in a potential Boston trade— it's a wide range of possibilities. All four of Boston's potential first rounders ended in two and three way ties. In addition to the Memphis pick rolling forward into the future, here are the current possibilities:
Ryan Bernardoni: Celtics could potentially own any of these picks: 2 3 4 9 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 24 51 52
https://twitter.com/dangercart/statu...11782774255620
https://twitter.com/dangercart/statu...13593031602177
That's 15 different first round spots that are still possible.