I have noticed is that is seems like J.J is not getting the touches he need to thrive. I believe part of it has been the emergence of NAW and Frank. I have been trying to read his body languge to see if he is getting frustrated. Im trying to find his fit with the second unit . Just my opinion and does any one else sees this being a problem going forward ?
J.J Reddick ???
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10-13-2019, 11:24 AMstrictfamjayJ.J Reddick ???
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10-13-2019, 11:35 AMPelicanidae
Nah, I honestly think it's a pre-season thing. JJ has barely played in pre-season: he's averaging just under 13 minutes a night right now. If I had to guess, I'd say that's because he's a little older so Gentry doesn't want to run him ragged before the season actually starts, and also because he's been in the league long enough that we know what we're getting from him so he doesn't need as much 'prove-it' time as someone like NAW might.
I do think he's a little frustrated because when he's been in, his shots haven't been coming as easily as they should, but I think that's probably because of the fact that he's played in some terrible lineups (Moore/JJ/Frank was not a good 3 man group :hihi:) that won't really see many minutes in the regular season. Gentry's trying to get everyone minutes in the pre-season to give people a chance and unfortunately for guys like JJ who have very specific roles that rely on certain other skills that means they're often used in poor situations.
Obviously I can't guarantee, I haven't spoken to the guy, but I feel like a lot of those issues will go away when the regular season hits, rotations shorten up a little, and guys get to play in legitimate lineups. -
10-13-2019, 12:51 PMstrictfamjay
Thanks for the feedback . what are thoughts on the the 2nd unit I see Naw J.J williams meli oak
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10-13-2019, 01:00 PMPelicanidaeI like, it really. Obviously those guys will see other lineups and combinations too, but just when you consider them as the likely 6th man through 10th man, it's pretty good. Okafor isn't perfect for all situations, but he's improved a lot and he can give valuable backup C minutes against other bigs. Improving his fitness has done a lot for him, and you've gotta give him him props for putting that work in and saving his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by strictfamjay
NAW is an absolute stud, imo. He's going to have rough patches, every rookie does, but he's got so much ability that I'm confident giving him 20 minutes a night right out of the gate. JJ is JJ. He's not going to shock anyone with his skillset, but what he does, he's an all-time great at. Don't ask him to guard Steph Curry or anything, and he'll shoot lights out.
I love Kenrich. He's an absolute analytics darling: he has no single ''elite'' skill, but he's just good at lots of stuff and he's such a smart player. Every great team has those guys who aren't just smarter than 90% of other players, and Kenrich is like that. His basketball IQ is so valuable, he makes such good reads, hustles hard, defends hard, rebounds really well. If he can get his shot even to something like 36% (which I think he will) he's going to be seen as an absolute bargain player.
Melli, we've seen a little less of, but I see him a lot like I see Kenrich. He's not as good on D, but he's a better shooter, so it probably balances out, and he's just smart. Reads the floor, makes the plays, knows where to be and when to be there. Screens very well, which is always nice.
I love our backups, to be honest. I feel like they're such a strong group with such a diverse skillset that we have something for almost any situation. -
10-13-2019, 01:15 PMstrictfamjay
Right and mix in Frank here and there this 2nd unit will keep us in alot of games
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10-13-2019, 01:24 PMPelicanidaeI don't think Frank will get many minutes, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by strictfamjay
Starting 5: Lonzo/Jrue/Ingram/Zion/Favors
Backup 5: NAW/Redick/Kenny/Melli/Okafor
That's 10 guys. A regular season rotation isn't going 11, 12, 13 men deep. Gentry even said it himself, I think it was in the media availability before the Bulls game, that for the final few games of pre-season he's going to bring the minutes up on the starters and cut the rotation to what it will be more like in the regular season, to get them some run together. That makes me think we're going with a 9 or 10 man rotation into the year. I'm not sure you can go deeper than that without really slicing people's minutes up. -
10-13-2019, 02:38 PMEman5805
I also noticed the Jazz were paying extra special attention to JJ coming off screens. That rhythm will come in time.
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10-14-2019, 11:54 AMSilver NailThis makes the most sense but Moore needs some time to show for trade value. Both he and Frank will get some mins. in lieu of Oak and even Favors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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10-14-2019, 11:58 AMTaker597
I think Favors and JJ are just not preseason players. We got a bunch of young, hungry guys and Jrue being the leader. Our other Vets are basically Moore, Favors, and Reddick. They been playing really loose.
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10-14-2019, 01:58 PMSpec3333You are assuming 100% health. I know we upgraded our medical staff, but bumps and bruises will occur. I'm sure Frank will see a few minutes early on and then his minutes will rise later in the season as he is needed to fill in for injured guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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10-14-2019, 02:24 PMSoCal4PelsYes, ^this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
I do think though, that if Frank continues to knock down threes at high clip and provides better defense than Reddick, he will definitely get minutes. Maybe he is just on a hot streak? But I hope not.
The way I see things currently:
- Zion, NAW, Jrue, and Lonzo are pretty much locked in, and Ingram to some extent unless we decide to eventually let him go or trade him due to iso ball or lack of a 3pt shot which could hurt Zion's spacing, especially if Lonzo's 3-ball doesn't come along.
- Okafor, Melli, and Favors are competing with each other for minutes at the 5 while we bring Jaxson along
- Melli and/or Favors will get minutes spelling Zion at the 4
- And that leaves Gentry with a bevy of shooters competing with each other for the rest of the minutes, and really it should just be who is most consistent without being a liability on defense and/or who is the biggest defense stud who can still provide floor spacing and keep the defense honest out of: Moore, Hart, Reddick, Frank, Melli. Even if Reddick's age is taking an even greater toll on his D, if he is still pure from beyond the arc he will be vaulable as a specialist assassin.
- I may have a blind spot regarding Williams, as I am not super familiar with him. Great hustle, maybe that is enough to take some non-garbage minutes away from someone else?
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10-14-2019, 03:42 PMPelicanidaeWell yes, I am speculating everyone being healthy, because I'm not about to start taking random guesses at who might get injured. Yes, if there are injuries to guards, people who won't usually get minutes will get minutes. I feel like that's just a given, and doesn't really factor into pre-season discussions of who will be in the main rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec3333
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10-14-2019, 03:45 PMPelicanidaeI pretty much agree with most of this. Just a few things I'd like to add:Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels
Redick isn't a great defender by any means, but he's a smart enough defender to be not too much of a liability on that end during the regular season. When the playoffs hit, he gets exploited far harder on that end, but it shouldn't be a huge huge issue through the regular season.
Kenrich is great. He's an older sophomore player (he's 24 right now) and he's never going to be a superstar or anything, but he is just the perfect glue guy. Hustle, yes, but he's also a smart and active defender both individually and with team play. He's an excellent rebounder who reads the ball fantastically well off the rim and boxes out well. Good passer with solid vision and strong execution: completely unselfish. He's had times where he's shot the ball well, and other times where he has been completely blanks, so that's kind of up in the air as to whether he'll be consistent or not this year, but he has all the abilities of the perfect glue-guy. The type of player you love to have for cheap. -
10-14-2019, 07:55 PMDarkhorse985
Moore should not be in the top 10 rotation, but I think you can argue having Hart in there instead of Okafor or Williams.
I like
PG: Ball/NAW
SG: Holiday/Redick
SF: Ingram/Hart
PF: Williamson/Williams
C: Favors/Melli
11. Okafor
12. Moore
13. Jackson
14. Hayes
15. Cheatham (2-way)
16. Gray (2-way) -
10-14-2019, 09:03 PMAs I See ItQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
I said it when we drafted him and I stand by it. JH will spend time in Erie to get playing time.
Additionally, Hart and Jackson will be competing for playing time (truth be told, Redick should be in that number too). May the best three point shooter play.
Okafor will play. Too much offense to sit. -
10-14-2019, 09:05 PMPelicanidaeThat'd be Redick, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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10-14-2019, 11:25 PMSoCal4PelsThing is, you are going to have players overlapping each other at various positions, depending on how deep we are at each position. Jrue and Naw are both combo guards, Favors and to a lesser extent Melli both play the 4 and the 5:Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
1: Ball / NAW / Jrue
2: Jrue/ NAW / up for grabs
3: Ingram / up for grabs
4: Zion / Favors / Melli
5: Favors / Okafor / Melli / (& there will DEFINITELY be spot minutes for Jaxson)
(the order in which players are listed by position above doesn't indicate how many minutes I think each player will get at that position; 1 or 2 guys will likely get more minutes than NAW at the two, for example, because NAW will probably spend more time at the 1)
So that is 8 guys locked in for sure, 9 if you count a few guaranteed minutes for Hayes. I foresee Gentry taking a page out of Steve Kerr's book, however. GS has the motto "Strength in Numbers", and it even has carried over to the playoffs, which you give your team long-term cohesion and synergy a psychological boost by allowing as many guys as possible feel like they are contributing to the success of the team, even if at times some players on the floor are not optimal. -
10-16-2019, 01:53 AMGuardianAngel25Yea this is a really tough problem to have but also a great one. I think as the season goes we will definitely see some trades and imo Griffin is going to wait and see how things play out. If we have an injury then obviously we can fill in from within. Could be some desperate teams early in the season or around the trade deadline where someone like Moore could be moved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
I like your top 10 but have a couple differences. I’m a huge Keinrich fan and the first hyping him up when he came. With that said Hart is the better player and needs to get the backup minutes at the SF/SG with Keinrich close behind at SF/PF. I also think Okafor has to get minutes and would have Keinrich as the odd man out sliding Melli and Okafor into the PF/C backup positions. Now it’s obviously not going to work that simple and will be a very fluid situation on playing time depending on so many different scenarios from matchups to who fits best with each other and so on. For example Melli is for now my first big off the bench which means he would slot in at center next to Zion but Okafor is my backup center.
No bigger JJ fan here then me and when we signed him I highly doubt we knew we would have NAW explode on to the scene and Frank make such huge improvements. The great thing is we have time on our side with NAW and Frank who aren’t going anywhere. At this point in his career JJ is turning more and more into a specialist and he is a professional that will accept whatever role he gets. If Frank gets fewer minutes this season to then takeover for JJ next season then great. As of now for me NAW is my 6th man and first guard off the bench while JJ is slightly ahead of Frank but also a situational decision as well. I’ll let the coaches and front office sort this out haha. I’m sure we will have many complainers that will somehow know best after maybe going to the one open practice and what they see in pre season. -
10-16-2019, 12:56 PMfullcourtpress
wow everybody seems to have moore outta the top ten..... its going to be hard for him to take the 6 three's a game the coach asked of him huh?
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10-16-2019, 04:42 PMPelicanidaeYou could play Moore 35 minutes a night and probably still not get 6 threes a game out of him. He's far too slow on his trigger. Passes up tons of open shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by fullcourtpress
His career high 3pt attempts per 36 is 4.9, and that was in his rookie year.
The closest he's come since is last year, where he averaged 4.3 attempts per 36.
He just doesnt let it fly even nearly enough to make him take 6 a game.
Hell: last year, Moore didn't even take 6 threes per 100 possessions!! He took 5.5 3s per 100 last year. By comparison, Redick took 12 threes per 100, and 9.2 per 36.