Can We Actually Move Away from Zion after 2024-2025 Season?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is why I, and many others, have said that Zion's contract isn't a huge deal. He's not going to be the limiting factor in future money management. Either he's playing well, and then he's worth paying, or he's not and his contract is easily manageable.

The team isn't going to cut him. Thus far this season he's been healthy, the team is winning games, etc. They won't cut him and they shouldn't cut him.

It's non-story. People have been reporting that Zion's contract has these kinds of insurances built into it for literally years.

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This is pretty short-sighted of you; it's a huge deal.

If he's not playing up to his contract, he's overpaid; thus hamstringing the team's roster financially

-or-

We waive him and have nothing to show for the first overall pick of the 2019 Draft.

....AND YOU SAY IT'S NOT A HUGE DEAL!!!!

The only chance we have after five years of this roller coaster nonsense is if he decides to address all of his on-the-court issues, his health concerns (including his bio-mechanic limitations), expands his schtick, and matures all at once. Then he has to show signs of the the player you claim he is.

As you know, I don't see it, but, certainly, hope that he (and you) proves me wrong.

DEFENSE...DEFENSE...DEFENSE!!!

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

I'd take paolo banchero in a straight up trade.

Or Adebayo.

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Said the exact same thing about Banchero a few weeks ago.

Don't we have this same conversation about Willie every year?

He will figure it out. Unfortunately, it won't be until February.

But so far we are doing well with injuries so if he does indeed figure it out by February we should be in a good place by the end of the season with decent health.

Remember that game once when Willie was sick and the team looked amazing? Small sample but man, good times. Lol

Bottom Line on Mr. Williamson...

He is seen by some as a potential Hall of Famer who possesses a transformative game that will change the landscape of the NBA for generations to come. Then, there are some of us entrenched in reality who has seen five years of 'flash or crash' highlight/lowlight snippets that has done absolutely nothing to advance (a) his game...or (b) and more importantly if you are a Pelicans Fan, (b) the team.

The horrid truth is that these diametrically opposing, divergent views of Mr. Williamson run parallel to one another, Bear in mind: parallel lines never intersect.

His supporters want to blame his failures on everything from the coaching...the training staff...the front office...referees...the makeup of players who surround him...his stepdad...and even some sleaze bunny with a staunch internet following. Others, of whom, admittedly, I am (surprise...surprise), simply want him to look into a mirror to see the source of his bane and then take account.

Can he be a serviceable NBA player? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Can he be the cornerstone of championship team? Five years of on the court 'elevator play', says, "NO WAY"!!!!

Candidly, I think this team possesses A future All Star who plays the 4...and it ain't Mr. Williamson.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Bottom Line on Mr. Williamson...

He is seen by some as a potential Hall of Famer who possesses a transformative game that will change the landscape of the NBA for generations to come. Then, there are some of us entrenched in reality who has seen five years of 'flash or crash' highlight/lowlight snippets that has done absolutely nothing to advance (a) his game...or (b) and more importantly if you are a Pelicans Fan, (b) the team.

The horrid truth is that these diametrically opposing, divergent views of Mr. Williamson run parallel to one another, Bear in mind: parallel lines never intersect.

His supporters want to blame his failures on everything from the coaching...the training staff...the front office...referees...the makeup of players who surround him...his stepdad...and even some sleaze bunny with a staunch internet following. Others, of whom, admittedly, I am (surprise...surprise), simply want him to look into a mirror to see the source of his bane and then take account.

Can he be a serviceable NBA player? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Can he be the cornerstone of championship team? Five years of on the court 'elevator play', says, "NO WAY"!!!!

Candidly, I think this team possesses A future All Star who plays the 4...and it ain't Mr. Williamson.

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I didn’t know you thought that highly of Robinson-Earl.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

I didn’t know you thought that highly of Robinson-Earl.

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LOL

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

100% agree.

The fact is, offense is defense to a large extent. You can get away with a mediocre lineup defensively if the offense is so potent that you never have to play in transition. That's one of the reason that Zion-led lineups have historically been a plus defensively: not because Zion is some core defensive piece (he's not) but because under SVG and during last year's Point Zion games, the offense was so flames that every defensive possession was played in the half-court and that covers for a lot of issues.

You need some defense. You're not going to win games reliably with 0 defense. But top 5 offense, top 15 defense is a lot better than top 5 defense, top 15 offense.

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You play to your strengths. We are stupid stacked offensively. BI, Zion and CJ are all undeniably all star caliber scorers. Trey and Jonas are also arguably allstar caliber scorers. Hawk is a very good scorer for a rookie and has had some really hot games early on in his career. You add Herb into that mix, and the only defensively inclined player is Herb. We have good defensive talent on the bench. But if you look at our top guys, it?s the offense that stands out. We are not a grindy team no matter how badly Willie wants us to be. We will win games by being a top offensive team that can play defense when necessary. We will not win as a defensive first team because we are not built that way.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

You play to your strengths. We are stupid stacked offensively. BI, Zion and CJ are all undeniably all star caliber scorers. Trey and Jonas are also arguably allstar caliber scorers. Hawk is a very good scorer for a rookie and has had some really hot games early on in his career. You add Herb into that mix, and the only defensively inclined player is Herb. We have good defensive talent on the bench. But if you look at our top guys, it?s the offense that stands out. We are not a grindy team no matter how badly Willie wants us to be. We will win games by being a top offensive team that can play defense when necessary. We will not win as a defensive first team because we are not built that way.

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The main reason I think Borrego should be the coach. He’s offensive minded and the roster is perfect for him.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Dude could you imagine if they just surrounded Jonas, BI, and Zion with shooters at all times. Defense wouldn?t need to be needed at all. Lol. I honestly think Jonas can get his own bucket as easy as any one of them. He has become an offensive nightmare for any one who guards him.

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No Defense? What are we, the Pacers?

If we could even have two games back of the five we lost after having double digit leads, we'd be a half game out of the #2 seed. We're our own worst enemy.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

You play to your strengths. We are stupid stacked offensively. BI, Zion and CJ are all undeniably all star caliber scorers. Trey and Jonas are also arguably allstar caliber scorers. Hawk is a very good scorer for a rookie and has had some really hot games early on in his career. You add Herb into that mix, and the only defensively inclined player is Herb. We have good defensive talent on the bench. But if you look at our top guys, it?s the offense that stands out. We are not a grindy team no matter how badly Willie wants us to be. We will win games by being a top offensive team that can play defense when necessary. We will not win as a defensive first team because we are not built that way.

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Exactly. And frankly, that's how you have to be in the modern NBA. There are no teams holding anyone to 90 points a game anymore. It's not the 90s. The best defensive team in the NBA is the Wolves and they give up 108 points a game: that's the best defense anyone has played in more than 5 seasons, and it would have been a bottom 3 defense in 2004, when the Pistons won the chip. The 3pt revolution, the concessions refereeing has given to offensive playing, etc, have mean that you can't just strangle opposing offenses anymore.

Any lineup you put out there is going to get scored on. And we know that, because when we do go all-defense and play Herb, Dyson, Jose, Naji, what happens? We get scored on and lose leads. That's not a condemnation of those players, it's just the reality of the modern NBA.

We are a team built to score. As you point out, we have multiple all-star level scorers, arguably 5 of them. There are coaches out there that would kill to get that on their team. We have it and Green is avoiding using them together as much as possible. It's bizarre to the point of ridicule.

This team should average 120+ points a game. Easily. And funnily enough, when you look at our wins, we do. We win when we score.

Like I said, you can't ignore defense completely. You have to have some baseline competence. I agree with that argument. But sacrificing offense for defense is a fool's errand.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

You play to your strengths. We are stupid stacked offensively. BI, Zion and CJ are all undeniably all star caliber scorers. Trey and Jonas are also arguably allstar caliber scorers. Hawk is a very good scorer for a rookie and has had some really hot games early on in his career. You add Herb into that mix, and the only defensively inclined player is Herb. We have good defensive talent on the bench. But if you look at our top guys, it?s the offense that stands out. We are not a grindy team no matter how badly Willie wants us to be. We will win games by being a top offensive team that can play defense when necessary. We will not win as a defensive first team because we are not built that way.

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Then I respectfully suggest we will never be a consistent winner because offense IS NOT an every night (or every quarter) thing...but defense (to include limiting second shot opportunities by the opposition) can and should be.

In our case, thus far this season, our team is a textbook example that proves this sports axiom to be true. I mean, shouldn't 20 point leads be safe? Either our defense fails us or our offense wanes. In our case, often it's both.

Have you ever wondered why we are losing the third and fourth quarters this season? It's really simple. Our opponents clamp down on our offense after halftime and our defense (to include defensive rebounding) is paper-thin.

PELICANS OPPONENTS SCORING BY HALF

1st Quarter we are ranked 8th in the league allowing 27.4 points per game.
2nd Quarter we are ranked 1st in the league allowing 26.4 points per game. (this is the quarter we play those defensive lineups many bellyache about)
3rd Quarter we are ranked 23rd in the league allowing 30.5 points per game.
4th Quarter we are ranked 21st in the league allowing 29.2 points per game.

Meanwhile we score less in the second half than we do in the first (our fourth quarter being the worst -- 27.6 points per game).

That's why the norm in team sports is that champions play defense and also-rans can't or won't.

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Defense wins in the post-season 90% of the time.

DEFENSE...DEFENSE...DEFENSE!!!

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The best defensive team in the NBA is the Wolves and they give up 108 points a game: that's the best defense anyone has played in more than 5 seasons, and it would have been a bottom 3 defense in 2004, when the Pistons won the chip. The 3pt revolution, the concessions refereeing has given to offensive playing, etc, have mean that you can't just strangle opposing offenses anymore. .

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With all due respect, you make my case. The Wolves and Celtics are currently tied with the best records in the NBA. As you say the Wolves are the best defensive team in the NBA. Meanwhile the Celtics are ranked third. Defense wins, my friend.

DEFENSE...DEFENSE...DEFENSE!!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

With all due respect, you make my case. The Wolves and Celtics are currently tied with the best records in the NBA. As you say the Wolves are the best defensive team in the NBA. Meanwhile the Celtics are ranked third. Defense wins, my friend.

DEFENSE...DEFENSE...DEFENSE!!!

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The Wolves defensive record is all well and good. We are not built like the Wolves. We are built like the Pelicans. We have different strengths and weaknesses. We should rarely if ever have a lull offensively.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

The Wolves defensive record is all well and good. We are not built like the Wolves. We are built like the Pelicans. We have different strengths and weaknesses. We should rarely if ever have a lull offensively.

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But we do. See second half scoring this year or how we close the games and then we'll talk.

Merry Christmas.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

But we do. See second half scoring this year or how we close the games and then we'll talk.

Merry Christmas.

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Teams score on us in the second half because we have lulls and are forced to defend in transition. That needs to be addressed. Defense in half court is what we should aim for and that comes with taking care of the ball and having good possessions.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Teams score on us in the second half because we have lulls and are forced to defend in transition. That needs to be addressed. Defense in half court is what we should aim for and that comes with taking care of the ball and having good possessions.

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Well then you agree with me...we need to play better defense (I'll add rebound defensively ...but that requires work and effort on the players' part. It's not bad coaching).

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Well then you agree with me...we need to play better defense (I'll add rebound defensively ...but that requires work and effort on the players' part. It's not bad coaching).

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Defense in the half court only comes if we play well offensively which is the point. Nothing wrong with defensive players and lineups. There is a time and a place. The majority of the time we should be lining up to be efficient offensively and force other teams to play us in the half court. As Dae said we need to be aiming for at least 120 a game. Force other teams to keep up and protect the leads we build. When we go limp offensively, the other team comes back and we lose.