Well... Maybe we aren't so terrible. Granted... Kings probably the worst run franchise in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Pels Off season thread
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07-30-2021, 06:28 PMTaker597
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07-30-2021, 06:37 PMDarkhorse985Sacramento just drafted Damian Mitchell as Delon Wright?s replacement. They needed a 3rd big or replacement for Holmes if need be. The move for them makes a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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07-30-2021, 06:52 PMPelicanidaeSure but the best value they could get for Wright is Thompson? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
I wonder if they just couldn't get anyone else at all. Or if it's just Kings being Kings.
Thompson is fine don't get me wrong but his value is below Delon's. Even with Davion Mitchell incoming. -
07-30-2021, 07:15 PMPelicanidae
The Dallas Mavericks are finalizing trading G/F Josh Richardson to the Boston Celtics, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Richardson is exercising his $11.6 million player option for the 2021-22 season for the deal.
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 31, 2021 -
07-30-2021, 10:44 PMPELICANSFANMavericks freeing up room to make a big offer to Lowry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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07-30-2021, 10:48 PMbradaelOr KawhiQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
But they supposedly are going to be paying Tim Hardaway a ton too... -
07-31-2021, 12:13 AMhornetsrebirth
The Pelicans top need is at point guard. We need a strong veteran presence to go with the youth on the team. Someone who is a facilitator that sees the whole floor, isnt the first or second scoring option but can still make shots. In a perfect world we could have Chris Paul, but in a realistic world... Goran Dragic is that guy!
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07-31-2021, 01:34 AMnew city champ
Continue to see reports that Hawks are making Cam Reddish available.
Would you be interested in acquiring Cam and, if so, what would you give up to get him? -
07-31-2021, 02:23 AMAusPelThat's why we should have taken Cooper at 43. Very small, but a complete floor generalQuote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
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07-31-2021, 06:28 AMMichaelMcNamaraYou would need to give Zion, Cam, Hayes, and NAW all new contracts in the same season. That should answer the Cam Reddish questionQuote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
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07-31-2021, 07:00 AMnew city champDoes it though? Aren’t they all on rookie scale contracts for the next two seasons? Plenty of time to sort things out. Plus Zion is eligible for the rookie scale extension at the end of next season, so (God willing) his deal will be done. Even after end of ‘22- ‘23 season they would be RFAs who we could make qualifying offers on and decide then who to keep, who to deal, work a sign-and-trade maybe. Don’t need to decide now who gets a second contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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07-31-2021, 07:08 AMMichaelMcNamaraNo, you dont need to decide now, but why give up assets for someone who either: You will let walk, or you will have to overpay to keep, or will cause you to lose someone else who you would have otherwise liked to keep?Quote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
Go try and find a team who had and re-signed 3 or 4 players from the same draft class to a 2nd contract. It doesnt happen and never will because while fans think its good to have a bunch of 22 or 23 year olds together on the same "timeline", it is actually really hard to execute salary wise. 2nd contracts are where guys are most likely to be overpaid historically and you would have 4 here, plus another one coming right behind it in Kira. The whole reason the Hawks are considering trading Reddish is for this very issue, as they will have to (over)pay Collins on his 2nd contract, then will have D Hunter coming up the same year as Reddish. They are wisely trying to get out in front of this problem. The Pels would be compounding their problem. -
07-31-2021, 07:10 AMSpaniardI think his point is more about affording the players, not literally being able to lock them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
Though in my opinion, outside of Zion, I think Reddish has the most potential as a long term starter on a good team in that group. I still would consider it. Hayes and NAW wouldn’t deter me, but it’s certainly worth considering in the discussion. -
07-31-2021, 07:19 AMPelicanidaeNope. He's not very good and seems like he's at least 3 or 4 years away, if he ever gets there. The defense can be strong at times but he is legitimately woeful offensively and he's not on the Thybulle level of defense to make that excusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
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07-31-2021, 07:20 AMnew city champ
Well, per my original question, a lot would depend on what asset is required to get him. KOC at the Ringer was reporting the pre-draft ask as Cam + 20th pick to move into the lottery. That’s pretty light, depending on how you value Cam, but maybe there would be more to it. As why you would do it, obviously because you think Reddish might be a star on the rise, a player potentially more valuable than Jaxon or NAW in two years. The Hawks are jammed up and you are getting him on the cheap. Sort out who gets paid what down the road.
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07-31-2021, 07:39 AMSpaniard3 or 4 years away? He was playing over 20 minutes in the eastern conference finals less than a month ago. And he was 8-11 from three with fantastic defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
As a rookie, he was really rough offensively to start. REALLY rough. But he came on at the end of the season. This year he was hurt. He absolutely needs to continue to work on his shot, and it’s not a given. That will make or break him as a player. But he’s got all NBA potential defensively. He would immediately be the best defender on this team.
I personally believe he will become above average from three, and can give you a lot of fast break potential and third guy creation.
He is not MKG offensively. I realize the numbers haven’t shown it, but Cam has a short path to being very valuable, with a longer path to being even greater than that. -
07-31-2021, 07:57 AMPelicanidae
The NBA free agency point guard carousel is getting ready to spin. Latest on Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry, Ben Simmons, Chicago’s big plans, the Knicks’ many options, and everyone’s favorite Lakers rumors @BR_NBA: https://t.co/zjchCNhiGs
— Jake Fischer (@JakeLFischer) July 31, 2021
Edit: from the article
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According to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, the New Orleans Pelicans did have their sights set on prying Paul away from Phoenix
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Kyle Lowry remains the top domino that teams and league personnel are anxiously waiting to see fall. By offloading Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe onto Memphis' cap sheet, New Orleans has enough room to offer Lowry the same three-year, $90 million framework that Phoenix and Paul are expected to agree upon. Multiple cap analysts around the league have also told B/R that New Orleans can clear upward of $36 million to offer Lowry by renouncing both Lonzo Ball and Josh Hart. By just renouncing Ball, the Pelicans could offer roughly three years, $100 million.
Yet while New Orleans has gained momentum toward landing Lowry, the race for his services still does consist of several suitors. Miami and Dallas are expected to aggressively pursue the All-Star point guard, sources said, as Lowry's close relationship with Heat centerpiece Jimmy Butler is often mentioned among league personnel.
The team that offers Lowry the most guaranteed money in the third year of his contract may ultimately sign him.
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07-31-2021, 08:05 AMPelicanidaeI'm not concerned about him playing well for a game or two, of course he can do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaniard
And again, not really concerned about his defense which is generally good.
We're talking about a guy who shot 36/26/81 splits this year. 48% TS, and his AST% of 6.5 is considerably lower than his TOV% of 10.5%
I don't think he's entirely hopeless, he shot alright at the rim, albeit on very low volume, and the FT% is encouraging. But he has shown relatively few effective self creation moments, his 3pt shot is a *long* way off, and he's equally likely to turn it over than generate an opportunity for someone else. And this was after an almost equally poor rookie season, and a pretty dreadful offensive year in college. There's no track record of success for him to lean on.
Whatever you think of him, offensively he's not there. I doubt he'll be there next year. Probably not the next year either. He may we'll figure things out enough to be okay - as mentioned, there are some strengths and positive signs - but he's a while away on O. There's a reason the Hawks are willing to move off him instead of, say, Huerter. -
07-31-2021, 08:33 AMAusPel
I'm an irrational Reddish fan. Gimme gimme
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07-31-2021, 08:48 AMMichaelMcNamara
Why would you give up a pick to get Reddish to have the option of either overpaying him or losing him, when you can just go get a better player now with the MLE and have Murphy cheaper/develop him? Gimme McDermott, with Murphy developing all day over getting Reddish and giving up a pick and then having to talk to his agent next summer about the 4/100 million extension he wants. Then, worrying about him in RFA. You guys keep wanting the Lonzo situation over and over again it seems. A guy who shows flashes of potential that you either have to pay significantly or let go before you ever actually know whether those flashes are signs of things to come or just flashes.
I want to be in that position as infrequently as possible. -
07-31-2021, 08:55 AMtdcreator
I
Me too. You can add Culver to the list as well. As for second contracts, I hope they are playing well enough to deserve a good contract. That means we’re winning games. They can always be signed and traded as well, maybe not for the greatest of assets but better than losing for nothing. To me we worrying way too much about next contracts. Put good players on the team then deal with their future money later. I’m of course not saying to completely ignore it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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07-31-2021, 08:59 AMbradael
I feel like there was strong talk of Cam being traded largely coming directly from the Hawks trying to sell high.
Let's not all forget that the Pelicans gave Solomon Hill a big contract after one good series. A playoff run doesn't make a player. Cam is still raw and can certainly improve. He's got the prototypical height and athleticism, along with a really nice looking jump shot. But to this point, he hasn't proved to be a legit player outside of a small sample size of the playoffs. -
07-31-2021, 09:00 AMMichaelMcNamaraHas nothing to do with "deserve" -- did Otto Porter "deserve" to be a max player? Has Lonzo done anything to "deserve" 4/80-90? The second contract gets paid based on potential because you take so many guys at 19 and gotta pay them when they are 22 or 23 and all you have seen is flashes. If its a no brainer guy like Luka or Zion or Tatum, you happily hand them the max and smile. The hard part comes with the vast majority of guys who again just show flashes or play well for the first time in their contract year. Its not like you only pay players after they have shown definitively who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by tdcreator
If Reddish were a sure thing and was looking at a huge contract, I would trade for him. But another flashes guy.....those are the worst IMO -
07-31-2021, 09:33 AMnew city champ
So MM you are a hard pass on Reddish regardless of price, even if it was, say, a couple of second rounders and a pick swap + Iwundu or a lottery protected Bucks first rounder in ‘25? This is because you believe Reddish is just “a guy” and you don’t want the Pels to be faced with his agent trying to shake us down?
I see it differently. If the price is low enough, it’s a two-year look see at a high upside guy who even now gives you a long wing defender on the cheap for two more years (not to mention it might make Zion a little happier to get an old teammate). If that’s all he turns out to be, so be it. Don’t give him a second contract. Unload him at the ‘23 trade deadline and recoup some of your buy money. If you don’t trust management to exercise that kind of discipline, that’s on management. You don’t decline an underpriced asset now because you don’t trust yourself not to bid it up later. That’s nutty. -
07-31-2021, 09:38 AMPelicanidae
We gotta stop talking about making moves, whether it's attaining Reddish or retaining Lonzo, on the basis of making Zion happy.
You know what will make Zion happy? Winning. Your best best best hope of keeping Zion when his moment to choose comes up is being a team worth staying on, where yes, a positive environment is important, but all the friends in the world won't keep you around when your team is bad.
Make a winning team. That's what will make Zion happy. Trying half-measures like trading for people he played with at college 3 years ago is what you do when you can't do the main thing. Do the main thing first. If you think Cam Reddish has the upside (and is about to reach it!) to make the gamble worth it, then that's one thing, but doing it because it might make Zion happy is just absurd.