Mac, have you changed your perception of Tatum v Ingram now the Finals are done?

Tatum under-performed massively, do you still hold him in such high esteem?

No....Tatum is better.

Guy got through Giannis, KD, and Miami but simple peoples recency bias has them killing him because he struggled on the biggest of stages. Ingram has done pretty well in 6 games in the postseason. Lets calm down.

JMO: I'll be satisfied if BI can just get back to taking 35-40% of his shots from 3 and hitting them at a 39% clip or so, like the first two years he was here. Still won't be a "Tatum"...but it'll be a whole lot closer.

Recency bias is a thing and Tatum was the focal point of the Warriors defense

But watching how he attacks the game, I actually think Ingram is built better for the playoffs

Can't wait to have the data

Even when you have data, narratives change all the time because we are not discussing things with concrete answers. Remember when Steph was a disappointment in the playoffs/Finals? Its all fluid and just fodder.

Instead of improving my own life, I'm debating about irrelevant stuff on a message board

I’m the biggest Ingram supporter, he’s one of the best scorers in the league, I’ve been saying that for awhile and won’t change my opinion, not even scorers but also offensive players because he is a fantastic and under rated passer, but Tatum is a better player, not by much, which isn’t a slight to Ingram, but Tatum is a top 10 player in the NBA

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I’m the biggest Ingram supporter, he’s one of the best scorers in the league, I’ve been saying that for awhile and won’t change my opinion, not even scorers but also offensive players because he is a fantastic and under rated passer, but Tatum is a better player, not by much, which isn’t a slight to Ingram, but Tatum is a top 10 player in the NBA

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From what I saw in the Finals, I'm a solid beliver that Ingram is better now

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Even when you have data, narratives change all the time because we are not discussing things with concrete answers. Remember when Steph was a disappointment in the playoffs/Finals? Its all fluid and just fodder.

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There was always a concrete answer to the stupidity of the narrative that Steph was a disappointment in the playoffs/finals.

It’s all stupid. Men, who probably criticize women addicted to soap operas, watching their own soap operas with the drama narratives they create. Can’t just watch something and be entertained. Gott argue the day after whether it’s a dynasty. Whether Steph is top 10 or top 12?!!? Whether Durant was an idiot for leaving. All the drama

Who cares? A couple of guys got together and threw a ball at a ring. One team won. You were entertained. Move on

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It’s all stupid. Men, who probably criticize women addicted to soap operas, watching their own soap operas with the drama narratives they create. Can’t just watch something and be entertained. Gott argue the day after whether it’s a dynasty. Whether Steph is top 10 or top 12?!!? Whether Durant was an idiot for leaving. All the drama

Who cares? A couple of guys got together and threw a ball at a ring. One team won. You were entertained. Move on

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The NBA is entertaining in many different ways. Lottery odds! Draft! Trade deadline! Regular season standings! Playoff seeds! For me the most entertaining aspect is that despite every team having incredibly good players who would instantly transform, say, the Tulane team, some teams are better than others. The process of putting together a superior team is fascinating and I can understand how these billionaire owners can't help but get involved (even though they shouldn't). I agree, though, that rankings of players and teams is not entertaining for me, at all.

How do you define "better player?" Better regular season player or better player when it counts in thr playoffs?

As of right now, Tatum is the better regular season player.

Having watched Ingram every year since he was a rook, and seeing how he stepped up to the plate in his VERY FIRST playoffs to verify my suspicions, BI has more killer instinct and aggression than Tatum. Not to mention BI has an actual go-to move that is one of the hardest to defend in the league for when you NEED a bucket: an incredible mid-range pull-up, and the length to get it off that Tatum will never have. Tatum has no go-to move when the C's need a bucket... hell I'd run a play for Brown instead of him if I NEEDED a bucket. I would bet money Wiggins would have had a harder time guarding BI than Tatum. BI will also have his 3-ball in order again to give Zion spacing.

For a non-playoff team, you can have Tatum for a few extra ppg. I'll take BI on my team for the regular season and post-season.

I love BI but some are judging Tatum on the finals games that he only played... (warriors did a very good defensive plan against him) but people forget the playoff games he had against KD and the nets, Giannis and the bucks and against Butler and the heat. He was good offensively in those series but was pretty good defensively as well..

i don't think BI can do all that against those teams especially with defense aimed at him, he had to make his money being guarded by crowder and didn't even capitalize to make sure cp3 switched on him and make the suns pay. The thing i have to give bi though is the playmaking and that inner fire that he has. But to discredit what tatum did all throughout the playoffs and comparing it to Brandon's 6 games against the suns is ridiculous. In those 6 games bi only played 3 great games and 3 meh ones as well

Yup. Just ignoring him being the key force in beating Miami, the Nets, and the Bucks. Struggled on the biggest stage in the world against a team that has been to the Finals 6 times in 8 years. Won 4.

THATS what you judge him on. Like I always say -- when you start out with the conclusion you want to reach in mind, anybody can make an argument for it. Bias is a heck of a drug.

How much playoff experience does Tatum have? (hint, hint, a lot ;) )

How much does BI have? (hint, hint, not much.)

For those who maybe haven't been watching the NBA very long, there is an enormous difference between playoff basketball and regular season basketball.

For BI to show that poise and fire against the top seed in the west (which went to the finals the previous year) while also missing a (THE?) key component of his team in his VERY FIRST outing is... quite great... and he will only improve, while Tatum is likely much closer to his ceiling and has yet to develop a go-to move he can get off at any time like BI already has, DESPITE Tatum's vastly greater experience in the playoffs.

And, regardless of Tatum's performance against other playoff teams, they guy who made him look like a bench player (Wiggins), would, indeed have had a harder time stopping BI, in my estimation.

I have never said Tatum sucks, BTW. And bias is, indeed, a helluva drug for people who may lack the ability to perceive or process nuance and/or may have already started out with the conclusion they wanted to arrive at. (That's a super easy and fun road to go down--if we really want to--when dealing with the expression of simple personal opinions ;) )

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Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

How much playoff experience does Tatum have? (hint, hint, a lot ;) )

How much does BI have? (hint, hint, not much.)

For those who maybe haven't been watching the NBA very long, there is an enormous difference between playoff basketball and regular season basketball.

For BI to show that poise and fire against the top seed in the west (which went to the finals the previous year) while also missing a (THE?) key component of his team in his VERY FIRST outing is... quite great... and he will only improve, while Tatum is likely much closer to his ceiling and has yet to develop a go-to move he can get off at any time like BI already has, DESPITE Tatum's vastly greater experience in the playoffs.

And, regardless of Tatum's performance against other playoff teams, they guy who made him look like a bench player (Wiggins), would, indeed have had a harder time stopping BI, in my estimation.

I have never said Tatum sucks, BTW. And bias is, indeed, a helluva drug for people who may lack the ability to perceive or process nuance and/or may have already started out with the conclusion they wanted to arrive at. (That's a super easy and fun road to go down--if we really want to--when dealing with the expression of simple personal opinions ;) )

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I think BI impressed in the playoffs as much as CJ disappointed. Regular season CJ was an enormous difference maker, but playoff CJ needs Zion for sure.

There was rumors flying before the playoffs that CJ was going to have to play through some sort of illness

Just inserting my take that I don't think Tatum was nearly as bad as a lot of people argued at the time. Yeah his 2pt efficiency was in the dumps but he was still defending well, his passing appears to have taken another leap these playoffs, his shooting from 3 was still good, and he was playing on a visibly injured shoulder which surely accounts for some of the interior inefficiency.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Just inserting my take that I don't think Tatum was nearly as bad as a lot of people argued at the time. Yeah his 2pt efficiency was in the dumps but he was still defending well, his passing appears to have taken another leap these playoffs, his shooting from 3 was still good, and he was playing on a visibly injured shoulder which surely accounts for some of the interior inefficiency.

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Did his passing improve or did he just pass more? Guy set the record for the most playoff turnovers

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Did his passing improve or did he just pass more? Guy set the record for the most playoff turnovers

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It could be a product of Tatum and Brown not having good enough handles

Or just teams locking in more in the playoffs. Which is probably it

As Mac says, the regular season is really a giant farce

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Did his passing improve or did he just pass more? Guy set the record for the most playoff turnovers

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His passing improved. It was visible when watching the game. Lebron James has the NBA record for all-time turnovers, and other names in the top 10 of that particular stat include Stockton and Kidd, and I doubt anyone doubts their passing just because of the turnover numbers.