Yep, his lack of strength really is a huge issue for him. It prevents him from driving properly, and that's at least part of why he's often settling for these terrible contested midrange fadeaways: he just can't get to the basket reliably, and rather than pass it when that happens he just throws up a shot. It's like he starts driving, realises that his footwork isn't good enough to compensate for his lack of strength, panics, and throws up a panic-shot. Doesn't even consider the pass, most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
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10-12-2019, 04:08 PMPelicanidae
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10-12-2019, 04:31 PMGuardianAngel25Terrible contested mid range fade always? Are these terrible when Durant takes them? Are they terrible when Kawhi who led his team to an NBA championship takes them? No absolutely not. Neither is it for Ingram who is in the 89th percentile shooting from midrange which is elite!! You don’t tell Kawhi to stop taking kid rangers because Pelicandae has decided analytically from his computer it isn’t a good shot lol. The mid range shot for Ingram is a great shot because he is elite from there! Go listen to actual people with basketball knowledge in Griff, Gentry, and the countless players who talk about how good he is at this. Just listen to Griff who stated he is in the same category as MJ and Lebron for best scorers under 21 years old! MJ and Lebron! Something you argued with me continuously. Let’s not forget he also shot an elite FG% in his 2nd and 3rd season as well. His FG% was not just good but it was elite. So go dig up some stupid advanced stat that agrees with you to discredit something. We have the best young SF in the game and all you do is complain. Get over it. You were wrong it is perfectly ok to be wrong.. He just turned 22 years old!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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10-12-2019, 04:40 PMGuardianAngel25
Ingram had 18 points 6 rebounds 3 assists in 22 minutes and you wanna talk about his +/- being “pretty dramatically -7”?! All while coming off of not being able to pick up a basketball for near 6 months.. What a joke!
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10-12-2019, 04:58 PMNicholsWell yea it was a really bad take.. for obvious reasons. And I'm glad I wasn't here during all that drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
I do think he's an astute basketball commentator, he just has a blind spot when it comes to Ingram.
I personally wouldn't bother posting negative remarks, or backhanded compliments on any particular player 90% of the time on a forum. It's just not a good look in my opinion. With that being said it's a free forum, for the sake of not polluting the thread with arguments it's probably best to just ignore ridiculous takes as best you can. -
10-12-2019, 05:41 PMWowowowow
I think there’s a happy medium colliding both sides of the argument.
On one hand, I do see the value that Ingram brings. Offensively, he’s a nice change of speed and provides an element that right now no other player has and that’s his ability to pull up midrange. Is it the most efficient basket in basketball, no. But I see the problem an opposing team has to have to prep and scout for that element around a physical inside force who’s shooting 70%.
On the other hand, he does boggle down the offense and everything that’s being said about him throwing up shots and losing traction when he goes further past the point of no return in the paint is very true. I cringe all the time...
...but, I also happen to think that other players on the team right now are being SO efficient that we as fans are expecting perfection. Ingram looked better than a lot of players around the league last night/can do more than a lot of players in this league. We are just in a fortunate situation where we are comparing his style and efficiency to something that’s very very rare that’s happening.
I need more games under our belt before making a final judgement on him. -
10-12-2019, 07:19 PMGuardianAngel25I completely agree and believe he is great at doing write ups. Glad we have him around to do these things. He has lots of great takes on things as well. The problem is he doesn’t have a very good grasp of what opinions and facts are as he only speaks in facts. When he’s wrong on something he doubles down instead of just admittting it. I was an idiot along with anyone else for thinking Ingram and Lonzo would be good NBA players and god forbid me or anyone else had mentioned we preferred a trade with the Lakers over the other realistic AD trade partners. I have some funny stuff saved on how badly they were trashed but I won’t be that guy.. for now lol.. Oh well I’m done arguing Ingram I’ll just let the play do the talking even though anything short of an NBA MVP won’t be enough. Even if he did win MVP there would be some excuse it wasn’t unanimous or some advanced stat that he created ranks him below average lol. Yea you missed a lot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols
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10-12-2019, 07:24 PMGuardianAngel25I can completely agree! Ingram doesn’t come without flaws by any means. Again the kid just turned 22 years old and is far ahead of where just about every superstar in the NBA was. He had seasons before the age of 21 only comparable to Lebron and MJ. He just recently was able to pickup a basketball after being near bed ridden for 6 months. I think he looks pretty damn good and still has tons of improvement coming just as we expect from guys like NAW who is near the same age. People here talked the same crap about Jrue for years that I had to continuously defend and now his bandwagon is full. Zion/Ingram/Zo/NAW all 4 compliment each other so perfectly with different skill sets that all mesh. You can throw is Jax as well. You don’t see that very often where you have 5 elite caliber players who all bring very different games that compliment each other so well. YouQuote:
Originally Posted by Wowowowow
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10-12-2019, 07:38 PMNicholsI get where you're coming from, seeing players that we like getting dumped on can rub the wrong way. Some of it Ingram has brought on himself so I can also understand why some harbor doubts about him. He really pissed me off with the way he opened pre-season. Being rusty is one thing, playing selfishly is another all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
Ingram will just have to be consistently good within a team concept in order to change minds. Which he's fully capable of doing, but has yet to do thus far.
I'm trying harder to avoid conflicts because we have soooooo much to be excited about with this team.. I love NAW, and Zion is living up to an almost unreasonable amount of expectations and hype. -
10-12-2019, 07:51 PMGuardianAngel25I don’t even care if people dumb on Ingram cause I will as well. But from some in particular it just becomes stupid using the most dramatic words for everything he does wrong. The way Ingram comes out firing is what the coaches are asking of him and that’s been talked about. He is our most talented scorer being able to create for himself at all times. Very similar to Durant where not many shots are bad shots. Ingram’s role in our offense will be at times to go into attack mode and create for himself along with others. Lots of the ways we will use him along with others will be determined on who is on the floor with them. Trust me the coaches won’t let him continuously be out there doing things that they don’t want him to do. We have enough talent on the roster finally where we can pull players. Our roster badly needs a player who can do what Ingram does and luckily we have that. His skill set and play style fits very well with Zion and Jrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols
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10-12-2019, 07:58 PMNichols
I feel you.. and I know it hasn't looked pretty thus far, once he fully acclimates to this new role things will look a lot better. He does a lot of driving and kicking ordinarily, I suspect we'll start to see a lot more of that when he understands where his teammates will be on the floor.
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10-12-2019, 08:13 PMGuardianAngel25Don’t forget he wasn’t able to raise his arms above his head or even walk fast for nearly 6 months up until very recently. For how good he already looks is pretty incredible. I wasn’t expecting him to look close to this good yet and neither did others. I think this year Ingram will lack consistency as he gets his strength and shooting form back. Still expect to see an all star caliber player. Next season I have no doubt Ingram will be an all star or will be one of those few that gets snubbed each year. This season is going to be a growing year for many of our players as they learn how to really play with each other. Next year it’s on and we will be serious contenders from the get go. Call me crazy but I believe we have that much talent now to win it all of but that depends on if Zion, Ingram, and Zo can play up to their talent consistently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols
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10-12-2019, 08:18 PMNicholsI thought I was maybe a bit overly optimistic thinking we can make it into the playoffs.. you got me beat boss lol. With that being said I wouldn't rule anything out for next year, Zion is that much of a monster, and NAW looks like the real deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25