AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

So. Setting that mess aside.

I know it's just Fletch.....but how does everyone grade his prophecied Celts deal?

AD

For

Tatum
Smart
Filler player (Willians, Ojeyele, Yabusele)
And only the 2019 #14 pick


The verbiage he uses is "at least the #14 pick" but that smacks to me like not a whole lot more.

How would you like that?

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I'd be more than fine with it. I'd wish we could get a little more, but assuming "that's it" I'd still be happy with it.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Keeping in mind. We invented those trades. You can say "I like this package" a thousand more times but it doesn't make it any more real. Those are all speculations and the probable is that the best offered won't be all that you are thinking.

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Everybody is fully aware.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Don't see it with DSJ, but I do see that caliber of player as possible for Robinson. I don't think he will actually make allstar teams because defense generally doesn't get you there, and that's his real strength, but I could see a couple of all-defensive teams without much problem.

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DSJ plays with a chip on his shoulder. He has a Westbrook like intensity, it’s going to be fun to watch his career.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

DSJ plays with a chip on his shoulder. He has a Westbrook like intensity, it’s going to be fun to watch his career.

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He seems to have a low BBIQ and attitude problems. Dallas wanted him gone.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

He seems to have a low BBIQ and attitude problems. Dallas wanted him gone.

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Basically this.

The problem with the Westbrook mentality, as we've seen for years now, is that unless you have a coach who is willing to really control that guy, it leads to big individual stats and not very much winning. Westbrook is an athletic freak, but he can't shoot at all, doesn't bother on defense most of the time, doesn't play team ball, and as long as he gets his triple double he seems pretty fine with losing in the first round every year. ''westbrook mentality'' doesn't carry good implications, to me.

Anything on the Kings roster worth trading for? Fox?

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Anything on the Kings roster worth trading for? Fox?

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If they would trade us Fox, give us back Hield, and also cough up like 3 first rounders, I'd be pretty damn interested. Not likely though, I think they like their young core.

I’d be willing to do it for Fox and fillers. He’s the best first contract point guard in the NBA and is a future all-NBA talent, IMO. I think Kings certainly say no to that because it’s hard to see how AD re-signs in Sacramento.

Funny story. All of the papers are stating the Celtics are in for Davis after the whole “Celtics are pulling out” narrative. It just goes to show you that people won’t know jack crap until the trade is close to being finalized.

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Originally Posted by Biasvasospasm

I’d be willing to do it for Fox and fillers. He’s the best first contract point guard in the NBA and is a future all-NBA talent, IMO. I think Kings certainly say no to that because it’s hard to see how AD re-signs in Sacramento.

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Don't think so either, but if he would chances are Boogie would go back there

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Funny story. All of the papers are stating the Celtics are in for Davis after the whole “Celtics are pulling out” narrative. It just goes to show you that people won’t know jack crap until the trade is close to being finalized.

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Agreed. There is no way to know what is true, what is speculation and what is misdirection.

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Originally Posted by donato

I'd be more than fine with it. I'd wish we could get a little more, but assuming "that's it" I'd still be happy with it.

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I'd be fine with it. So.....like.....a B-? I think I prefer Brown to Smart and would wish for more draft picks....especially the Memphis one.....but it's nice.

Oh hey guys. Also remember that we don't know what the actual offers are. Just be aware of this. Everyone. ;)

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Funny story. All of the papers are stating the Celtics are in for Davis after the whole “Celtics are pulling out” narrative. It just goes to show you that people won’t know jack crap until the trade is close to being finalized.

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While this is always true in principle logic has to be applied to the subject. The idea that the Celtics would want to gamble on Davis is illogical given he has not named them as a potential place he'll resign with. This isn't quite like Paul George who was traded for Oladipo and Sabonis. If the Celtics top the Lakers and Knicks or any other dark horse team it'll require most if not all of the Celtics assets. That's a gamble I can't see them making.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

While this is always true in principle logic has to be applied to the subject. The idea that the Celtics would want to gamble on Davis is illogical given he has not named them as a potential place he'll resign with. This is like Paul George who was traded for Oladipo and Sabonis. If the Celtics top the Lakers and Knicks or any other dark horse team it'll require most if not all of the Celtics assets. That's a gamble I can't see them making.

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For something to be reasonable, it has to be done for a reason. Since reasons are subjective in many cases, unless we can talk to Danny Ainge (which neither of us can), it's absurd to say what is and what isn't reasonable and logical for him to do. If he wants AD, it is totally logical for him to trade assets to get him. If he doesn't, then it isn't. Like David Hume once wrote, reason is and can only be a slave to the passions. Since we don't know Ainge's desires, what is reasonable for him to do is a mystery.

The fact that PG13 stayed in OKC is actually a point IN FAVOUR of trading for AD. He named a team: the same team AD named. LA. That's where he said he was going, that's where he said he wanted to be. Got traded to OKC, loved it, stayed. Kawhi also, from all reports, wanted to play in California (not necessarily the Lakers, but in California), and he got traded to the Raptors. Now they're in the finals, might be about to win a ring. Ujiri doesn't regret it, and there's at least some reason to think Kawhi will stay, especially if they do win the ring.

There is a lot of good evidence out there right now that taking the risk on the star can be worth it. Ainge isn't risk-averse. He's averse to dumb risk, sure, but if he thinks this trade has any possibility to grant him a superteam and a ring, he'll make it, even if Davis walks in a year.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

For something to be reasonable, it has to be done for a reason. Since reasons are subjective in many cases, unless we can talk to Danny Ainge (which neither of us can), it's absurd to say what is and what isn't reasonable and logical for him to do. If he wants AD, it is totally logical for him to trade assets to get him. If he doesn't, then it isn't. Like David Hume once wrote, reason is and can only be a slave to the passions. Since we don't know Ainge's desires, what is reasonable for him to do is a mystery.

The fact that PG13 stayed in OKC is actually a point IN FAVOUR of trading for AD. He named a team: the same team AD named. LA. That's where he said he was going, that's where he said he wanted to be. Got traded to OKC, loved it, stayed. Kawhi also, from all reports, wanted to play in California (not necessarily the Lakers, but in California), and he got traded to the Raptors. Now they're in the finals, might be about to win a ring. Ujiri doesn't regret it, and there's at least some reason to think Kawhi will stay, especially if they do win the ring.

There is a lot of good evidence out there right now that taking the risk on the star can be worth it. Ainge isn't risk-averse. He's averse to dumb risk, sure, but if he thinks this trade has any possibility to grant him a superteam and a ring, he'll make it, even if Davis walks in a year.

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Logic is logic. Whether or not Ainge adheres to logic is another debate.

George is a example of a risk working out. But Oladipo and Sabonis wasn't considered marquee assets at the time.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Logic is logic. Whether or not Ainge adheres to logic is another debate.

George is a example of a risk working out. But Oladipo and Sabonis wasn't considered marquee assets at the time.

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Lol, look up reasons internalism vs externalism. Doing X is only logical if X has desirable results. Just saying there is ''THE Logic'' which is ''Logic'', is kind of nonsense.

If Ainge WANTS AD, then it is logical for him to trade for AD. If he has good reason to suspect AD may stay, that is another reason for him to do so, but only because it satisfies his motivation: that is, his WANT for AD. The logical course of action is decided by the emotionally desirable outcome.

Again, David Hume is good on this.

Massive points bringing Hume into this and getting philosophical.

But it's still my birthday so I win all debates. :D

I want Tatum, the Memphis 2020, and Brown pretty bad, though. So my heart wants you to be right.

That’s nice trying to add philosophical points to this, but that still won’t change the fact that we will not get the farm from Boston. The Fletcher Mackel deal would probably be the best we could get from Boston.

Would you take that deal over Barrett, DSJ, Robinson, Knox, and 2 additional first round picks, which is a highly logical expectation from the Knicks? I know I would take the Knicks deal. Boston is second best unless they include the Memphis 2020 pick.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

That’s nice trying to add philosophical points to this, but that still won’t change the fact that we will not get the farm from Boston. The Fletcher Mackel deal would probably be the best we could get from Boston.

Would you take that deal over Barrett, DSJ, Robinson, Knox, and 2 additional first round picks, which is a highly logical expectation from the Knicks? I know I would take the Knicks deal. Boston is second best unless they include the Memphis 2020 pick.

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The point was not ''here's philosophy, therefore Boston will give everything.''

The point was that if Boston wants AD badly enough, then they will give everything, and to act as if there's some rule of logic that says ''Danny Ainge Must Not Give Up Assets, Even If He Wants To'' is just silly.

Which isn't a particularly shocking thing to say. He might not want it that much, because of Kyrie leaving for example, in which case he probably won't give everything.

The logical evidence that is factual shows that the risk Boston is taking to trade for AD is not worth Tatum, Brown, Smart, and 3 or 4 1st round picks. Please, I invite you to convince me that this statement is wrong. Danny Ainge is not Billy King.

Possibly half of those assets is the best we should expect from Boston, and they may not even offer that.

But he's betting on Ainge going Captain Ahab chasing his white whale....to our benefit. Not my mindset but the Hume reference does check out.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

The logical evidence that is factual shows that the risk Boston is taking to trade for AD is not worth Tatum, Brown, Smart, and 3 or 4 1st round picks. Please, I invite you to convince me that this statement is wrong. Danny Ainge is not Billy King.

Possibly half of those assets is the best we should expect from Boston, and they may not even offer that.

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And again, NOBODY, and I repeat, ZERO PEOPLE are saying that Danny Ainge WILL give up everything.

All I am saying is that IF Ainge wants AD badly enough, then it makes sense for him to pony up whatever assets are necessary to acquire him. What assets those are, exactly, depend on what other teams are offering. If Ainge WANTS to ensure he will definitely get AD with no competition, then it is logical for him to pay up the assets. If he DOESN'T want him that badly, and is willing to accept the competition, then he offers less. Now, I think that the second option is more probable, but that doesn't mean it would be illogical for Ainge to do the former.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

But he's betting on Ainge going Captain Ahab chasing his white whale....to our benefit. Not my mindset but the Hume reference does check out.

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Exactly. Now, maybe Ainge doesn't actually care that much, in which case then no, he obviously won't give everything up. But only Ainge knows how he really feels about this right now, and if he wants to ensure he definitely gets AD unchallenged, then he may well unload the warchest. That is obviously a big IF, it's conditional, nobody is saying Ainge is guaranteed to do it. But let's not pretend it's impossible, now.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

But he's betting on Ainge going Captain Ahab chasing his white whale....to our benefit. Not my mindset but the Hume reference does check out.

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To hope and expect that is just silly.

The teams who have to offer the farm are the Knicks and Lakers. It’s definitely debatable on which collection of assets from those teams are more favorable. I personally believe half of the Boston assets with Tatum is better than the entire Lakers offer, but is inferior to the deal the Knicks can offer if they empty the bank.

If Boston truly wants AD, they have to beat the Knicks offer. Ainge’s track record leads me to believe that he won’t overbid.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

To hope and expect that is just silly.

The teams who have to offer the farm are the Knicks and Lakers. It’s definitely debatable on which collection of assets from those teams are more favorable. I personally believe half of the Boston assets with Tatum is better than the entire Lakers offer, but is inferior to the deal the Knicks can offer if they empty the bank.

If Boston truly wants AD, they have to beat the Knicks offer. Ainge’s track record leads me to believe that he won’t overbid.

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It would be silly to expect that. Good thing I'm not expecting it then.

I'm not saying it will happen. I'm not even saying it's probable to happen. I'm just saying that pretending it's impossible and ''illogical'' as an option is beyond obtuse.