It is not getting any better. Shams says Zion not coming back anytime soon. Perhaps we should move Zion , Extend Ingram, and lose every single game now as the new game plan ?
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11-28-2024, 03:49 PM13 - 3Tanking, Extending Ingram, Getting rid of Zion, now the game plan?
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11-28-2024, 04:17 PMP_B_&_GDo you trade Zion for anything or just cut him?Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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11-29-2024, 01:02 AM13 - 3Well we are not getting much if he is just sitting on the bench daydreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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11-29-2024, 03:51 PM13 - 3
I’ m trying the Zion trade on the trade machines. It is is almost impossible to have a two team trade unless a team is willing to give up its starting lineup. We going to need like 4 teams or more to get a Zion trade to work.
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11-29-2024, 05:55 PMmsusousaphone
Do y'all remember how much Greg Oden got traded for?
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11-30-2024, 12:06 AM13 - 3Remember what Anthony Davis(Miraculously healed after trade)got traded for?Quote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone
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11-30-2024, 12:26 AMDarkhorse985
Interesting 3 team trade proposal? What do you think?
Bulls get
SF Brandon Ingram
SG CJ McCullum
SF: Javonte Green
PF: Karlo Matkovic
Rockets get
PF Zion Williamson
C Daniel Theis
Pels get
SG Zach Lavine
PG Lonzo Ball (expiring)
SF Chris Duarte (expiring)
PF Jabari Smith Jr.
SF/PF Amen Thompson
C Steven Adams (expiring)
Rockets 2025 1st
Suns 2027 1st via Rockets
Rockets 2028 1st
Kings 2025 2nd via Bulls
Kings 2028 2nd via Bulls
Pels tank with this lineup but also set up for a reset next year?.
PG: Murray/Alvarado/Ball
SG: Lavine/Hawkins/Boston/Reeves
SF: Murphy/Jones/Duarte
PF: Smith/Thompson/JRE
C: Missi/Adams/Jemison (2way) -
11-30-2024, 08:10 AM13 - 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
A bunch of expiring contracts? Ball and Adams back? -
11-30-2024, 08:55 AMDarkhorse985I guess you didn’t see Lavine, Jabari smith, Amen Thompson, 3 1sts, and the ability to reset the team? Are you in the camp that thinks we can get Giannis for Zion? You think BI and CJ are worth more? I believe there are very few trades that won’t require losing assets to trade CJ. Lavine is pretty equal to BI and Chicago is about as stuck in the mud as we are. BI and CJ for Lavine and expiring contracts is a good deal for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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11-30-2024, 09:50 AMdonato
I’d be on board.
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11-30-2024, 12:43 PMP_B_&_GObvious question here, why would Houston do this? Trades need to make sense on both ends and I don't see Houston doing this at all. I also don't see the Bulls doing this either. What exactly are they getting other than CJ? BI can walk and if those other deals are expiring so is his deal. So they are trading a bunch of future assets and Levine for CJ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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11-30-2024, 01:30 PMDarkhorse985Houston: The team doesn’t have a star and there are enough other players and depth pieces to let Zion shine when healthy and continue to compete when not. A healthy Zion surrounded by a good team and coaching can contend. Zion is still a top 20 player when healthy. Houston has done what the Pelicans failed to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
Bulls: The Bulls have been in a worse position than the Pelicans the last 3 years. They are replacing Lavine with 2 players in the same tier without sacrificing any other significant assets in the deal. That is a win. They can extend BI. Ball and Duarte have no value besides being expiring contracts.
A deal like this wouldn’t happen until closer to the trade deadline when all involved players have proven they aren’t still injured and can be available for the after all star break stretch. -
11-30-2024, 03:22 PMP_B_&_GAll of the picks come from Houston? I'm not current on which team has pick rights. I still don't think the Bulls would go for this. If I was their GM I wouldn't. Too much risk there and all they are guaranteed is an aging CJ since BI can walk. I actually think they can get a better deal for Lavine if he's healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
Also, assuming all these guys are healthy and playing well I think Griff would stick with Zion at least though this year. -
11-30-2024, 03:35 PMDarkhorse985Yes, Houston has the 1sts mentioned above to trade. What if BI agrees to sign with the Bulls?Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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11-30-2024, 03:48 PMP_B_&_GIt would look a lot more logical if they could sign him long term. In any case we are then looking for that star again and would be a borderline play in team with crap draft picks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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11-30-2024, 07:49 PM13 - 3What has made Zion a star so far? Missi has already done more than him.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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11-30-2024, 08:36 PMDarkhorse985So we would be what we have been for the last 3 years but with draft picks and flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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12-01-2024, 09:55 AM13 - 3
Imagine if we drafted Garland or Morant over Zion.
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12-01-2024, 10:02 AMP_B_&_GWhat really sucks is we could have had Zion and Garland. Or anyone and Garland. But I won't pretend Zion wasn't everyone's first choice as a consensus 1st pick. At the time he was as good a choice as you could make. The Garland debacle makes me frustrated though.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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12-01-2024, 10:06 AMP_B_&_GI get what you are saying. We do have a bit of young talent on the roster. We could always just let BI walk as an expiring or trade him for whatever. We could also cut Zion with no cap hit. There would be plenty of flexibility there. I'm not sure anyone will be willing to give up all those picks for what we have at this point. Unless he's healthy, and then if he's healthy I think Griff hangs on to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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12-01-2024, 10:07 AMP_B_&_GNot that he is. But he still has the potential and is the guy you build around. Once he's gone you are looking for that guy again.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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12-01-2024, 10:08 AMP_B_&_G
I will say that Griff has made a lot of mistakes in hindsight but I feel like this is by far the most talented team this franchise has ever had on paper. Too bad they just can't get on the floor and show it.
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12-01-2024, 10:10 AMP_B_&_G
I'm ready to build around Herb, Murray, Missi, Trey and the young guys on the team. Everyone else can go. I love BI but he isn't worth a max with the current rules.
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12-01-2024, 01:27 PM13 - 3https://saintsreport.com/proxy.php?i...82e4642d1b532eQuote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
https://saintsreport.com/proxy.php?i...82e4642d1b532e -
12-01-2024, 08:56 PMSilverfoxxTime for BI to go ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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12-01-2024, 09:32 PMNicholsAfter this last game, and the last few he hasn't played.. This is your major takeaway? Trey clearly isn't a replacement for Ingram, no one on this squad is. Murray Isn't nearly as good if we're being honest. At this point it's pretty obvious Ingram has nothing to do with this team's shortcomings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
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12-01-2024, 09:38 PMDarkhorse985I agree, but Ingram and Zion cannot remain on the same team due to cap constraints. One has to go. This point isn’t even debatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichols
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12-01-2024, 10:06 PMNicholsThat's a better argument for moving either one of them. But this idea some have on this board that anyone on this squad can fill in for Ingram is absurd. Always has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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12-02-2024, 09:58 AMSpeakthetruth
Pels will let themselves out of the zion deal.
Ingram I think they trade for whatever -
12-02-2024, 10:38 AMJJackisangry
It starts with the FO decisions. Not prioritizing 3 pt shooting and bringing in an actual freaking PG until it's too late is the type of stupidity that landed us here to begin with. We just assumed that Zion and BI could shoulder all of the playmaking burdern themselves and it bit us in the arse. It was stupid. We could have realistically built a team around them but we threw pieces together and called it a day. CJ in hindsight was not the move we needed. It made us a better team but we didn't learn to win the right way. Not his fault so much as the front office's.
Where do I start with the Willie hire. We waited until deep in the rebuild to hire a rookie head coach. Not the first year. Not the 2nd. We waited until the third year and acquired CJ and Jonas to make us a win now team and piled the pressure on a rookie head coach. It was spectacularly unfair to expect Willie to be ready. I do believe he has good qualities and can make it in the right environment and with more time. But I said it when he was hired- it was a massive mistake. I think he is good at developing talent and is a guy the players can get behind. He has some qualities. The problem with him is he just doesn't understand how to win. He doesn't get it. The fact that the one player that he'd get heated at (Jonas) was the one player who was always available and always brought the veteran presence we needed speaks volumes. He has favorites. He doesn't seem to see things objectively and it affected his lineups and decisions in game. He thought Zion and Bi could handle ballhandling duty for the entire game. He thought Zion could get away with bully ball and 0 3pt shooting to support him. He actively encouraged our players to keep doing the same things and expect different results. As a result we never grew. Willie needs to take this on the chin and learn from it wherever he ends up next. It is almost a certainty he is gone after this year. We would be stupid not to get rid of him. He is wildly unpopular and it will only get worse. Not all his fault. But we clearly need a better coach now. We can't wait for Willie to maybe get it someday. -
12-02-2024, 11:45 AMDarkhorse985
The writing is on the wall that the Zion/BI combo is done, and the players are giving up on Willie. We still have quality players to build around in Murray, Murphy, Jones, and Missi. Hawkins is flawed and has a Cj McCullum at best ceiling as he can?t play a lick of defense. CJ and Hawkins are nice complimentary players but not building blocks. Would love to swap BI and CJ for Lavine. Lavine is flawed but at least gives us a more athletic 3 point shooter/scorer to make a big 3 of Murray/Lavine/Zion if Zion doesn?t force his way out.
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12-02-2024, 12:04 PMSpeakthetruth
Lavine would be another CJ here
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12-02-2024, 01:43 PM13 - 3Welcome back! Wish it could be better times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfoxx
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12-02-2024, 09:41 PMSilverfoxxIt's the best time for some of us :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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12-03-2024, 11:40 AMP_B_&_G
Make of this what you will but for those thinking we can get a haul of picks for Zion its worth thinking about.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-...-harsh-reality
"“Yet, as always, the success of the Pelicans hinges on the health of Williamson, who another NBA executive told HoopsHype he’d only consider trading one first-round pick to acquire due to his consistent durability concerns,” HoopsHype wrote." -
12-03-2024, 01:24 PMJJackisangry
It just isn't working. I am of the mind that once the rot sets in, it is hard to shake it off. In a different world where Willie had 5 years and BI and Zion were healthy, the situation could be drastically different. I think as things stand, Willie isn't good enough and you cannot rely on BI and Zion. Not only do they struggle so stay healthy, they and the coach don't know how to win. We drop way too many games when they are healthy. Willie has proven that he cannot make adjustments quick enough and he cannot deal with the slightest hint of adversity. This team should not have a winning record by any means. But 4-18? At some point you have to say enough is enough. It's Gentry all over again. I'm not going to get mad at Willie because the environment was set up for him to fail. We have to develop a winning mentality and that starts with a player that can carry the franchise. That ain't BI or Zion. I like them both. But they ain't it. We also need a better coach. Things have to change.
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12-03-2024, 02:59 PMDarkhorse985I think the Pels will keep Zion as his trade value is depleted . Zion has no skins on the wall to demand anything. I don’t think he signs a 3rd contract with the Pels, but he will likely be with the team for at least 2 more seasons. We need to move BI and CJ, so that should be the focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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12-03-2024, 03:06 PMP_B_&_GThere will most certainly be a trade to stay out of the tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
BI, CJ and every first we can send for Giannis! -
12-03-2024, 08:22 PMml wave
Lol at trading for Lavine. Anyone proposing that should take a look at his injury history...
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12-03-2024, 09:56 PMDarkhorse985Have you seen BI?s ? Who could we really get for BI and CJ, like realistically? No one is trading Giannis. That discussion destroys brain cells.Quote:
Originally Posted by ml wave
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12-03-2024, 10:09 PMP_B_&_GHonestly, every trade discussion destroys brain cells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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12-04-2024, 10:27 AMml waveOh, we're (presumably) not getting anyone good...but I can't imagine this franchise/fanbase has any interest in a guy making $50MM/yr and is always hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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12-04-2024, 10:52 AMP_B_&_G
Trade scenarios are just too unpredictable. Everyone remembers the Cousins trade, nobody saw it coming.
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12-04-2024, 03:43 PMDroopyDawg
Herb
TM3
Hawk
Missi
Everybody else can go. You can't "play like Golden St" if you have a bunch of dudes that play ISO ball and don't know how to play off the ball. Use these guys as foundation pieces and build from here. -
12-04-2024, 03:45 PMDroopyDawgAt this point you take that one pick. You're not getting a haul for Zion.Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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12-04-2024, 04:35 PMP_B_&_GI disagree, you hang on to him and hope he can somehow find enough health over the rest of his contract for someone to add another first or good young player. Otherwise, just wait it out and take whatever you can get later, cut him or just look at it as an expiring. It isn't like he's hindering the development of younger players.Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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12-09-2024, 01:00 PMDroopyDawghttps://media1.giphy.com/media/llCtQ...giphy.gif&ct=gQuote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
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12-09-2024, 01:25 PMP_B_&_GI agree, right now he's like a pair of sixes. He could stay a pair of sixes or if the right cards come up he could turn into full house. So far he just looks like that pair of sixes and nothing else. If somehow he comes back later this month or early January and can stay healthy, which is honestly extremely unlikely, and the team can make a run it may be enough to up his trade value to get an additional first.Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
With 3 years left on his contract this is probably going to be the longest hand of poker ever. -
12-27-2024, 01:39 PMPELICANSFANNo they will not. Be realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakthetruth