Fire Willie Green!

This dude is not a "freakin" good coach, this thread should've been up a long time a ago.

This has become a tradition. We suck as a fanbase, good lord.

The Rotations were horrible and we didn’t take advantage of the size matchup. Playing Kira who hasn’t played in almost 2 months smh

Yes , We all are disappointed but Wilie is a good coach - He is our guy , He needs to stay!

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Originally Posted by Creative

Yes , We all are disappointed but Wilie is a good coach - He is our guy , He needs to stay!

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Jonas didn’t touch the ball once in the 3rd quarter , Kira hasn’t played in a month or so, you could’ve went big on the front line to attack the size advantage. I can go on and on

I don't know about firing him right away but he has been a huge disappointment. Haven't seen him make any adjustments or make any simple plays especially getting trey some good looks. He mostly just let bi/zion do all the work. The one time he finally tried to get creative, he did it on a do or die game and played guys he haven't given any minutes in a long time.

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it's relevant:

Coaches can improve just like players can, and given he's such an early-career coach who has shown some positives at times, I'm not calling for Green's job. Give him at least another year, hopefully with slightly better health, and see if he can improve.

That said, I think there needs to be serious adjustment this off-season regarding the assistant coaches, and Green needs to speak to Griff about aligning the roster with the strategy. Right now we have a roster which is incongruent with Green's desires as a gameplanner, and those two things need to come together.

Staff needs to be upgraded, Willie isn't going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

Staff needs to be upgraded, Willie isn't going anywhere.

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agreed

I'd like to see some fresh faces on the coaching staff but think the lower half of our roster needs to be revalued. If we aren't going to play them then move on from them. If you can't play them when your team has a ton of injuries then move on.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

I'd like to see some fresh faces on the coaching staff but think the lower half of our roster needs to be revalued. If we aren't going to play them then move on from them. If you can't play them when your team has a ton of injuries then move on.

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Not many teams play a 12 man rotation, particularly in the postseason.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Not many teams play a 12 man rotation, particularly in the postseason.

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This is exactly true. The most vital part of your rotation is the top 8. And our top is, when fully healthy, is really solid. The problem is that there's always one or two people missing and therefore everyone gets forced to play up one in or two spots in a position they're not meant for.

To have a real 12 man depth is exceedingly rare and if that's what it takes for you to consider a team deep, then there's no deep teams.

WHATEVER THE MOST DRAMATIC THING TO DO IS I SAY DO IT

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here since it's relevant:

Coaches can improve just like players can, and given he's such an early-career coach who has shown some positives at times, I'm not calling for Green's job. Give him at least another year, hopefully with slightly better health, and see if he can improve.

That said, I think there needs to be serious adjustment this off-season regarding the assistant coaches, and Green needs to speak to Griff about aligning the roster with the strategy. Right now we have a roster which is incongruent with Green's desires as a gameplanner, and those two things need to come together.

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What is it that WG wants to do as a gameplan? It seems to just let BI carry us or let CJ do his Tyreke Evans impersonation. We had a clear advantage with JV on the block and it worked so what does WG do? Go away from that. JV got NO SHOTS in the 3rd and was not in until 28sec left
I get it coaches can get better like players but what has he done better this yr than last? He needs an offensive guru Ast. coach like a D'Antoni to help him. Monty is not a great offensive coach, Kerr kinda is but it's easy when you have a Curry and Klay on the team so WG really didn't have that kind of coach to learn from

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Originally Posted by djrnno

What is it that WG wants to do as a gameplan? It seems to just let BI carry us or let CJ do his Tyreke Evans impersonation. We had a clear advantage with JV on the block and it worked so what does WG do? Go away from that. JV got NO SHOTS in the 3rd and was not in until 28sec left
I get it coaches can get better like players but what has he done better this yr than last? He needs an offensive guru Ast. coach like a D'Antoni to help him. Monty is not a great offensive coach, Kerr kinda is but it's easy when you have a Curry and Klay on the team so WG really didn't have that kind of coach to learn from

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Well, this is the thing I mean about the incoherence between roster and plan.

When asked, Green says that he prefers ball movement, half-court over transition, and creating looks at the rim over 3pt attempts. He's explicitly said in the past that he's not prioritising the 3 over the 2, he thinks things should start from inside the arc, etc.

So on paper you would think he wants a larger, more aggressively attacking team that goes after interior mismatches, relies on driving to the rim, rim-running, and post offense. Usually that involves bigs.

But then he plays small-ball lineups all the time, disregards offensive rebounding principles, ignores his centres, and executes iso-ball heliocentrism.

The two things contradict one another. What he says he wants, and the lineups he puts together to go for it, and the style he (theoretically) instilled in the players, don't match. It's incoherent.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Well, this is the thing I mean about the incoherence between roster and plan.

When asked, Green says that he prefers ball movement, half-court over transition, and creating looks at the rim over 3pt attempts. He's explicitly said in the past that he's not prioritising the 3 over the 2, he thinks things should start from inside the arc, etc.

So on paper you would think he wants a larger, more aggressively attacking team that goes after interior mismatches, relies on driving to the rim, rim-running, and post offense. Usually that involves bigs.

But then he plays small-ball lineups all the time, disregards offensive rebounding principles, ignores his centres, and executes iso-ball heliocentrism.

The two things contradict one another. What he says he wants, and the lineups he puts together to go for it, and the style he (theoretically) instilled in the players, don't match. It's incoherent.

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Well, it's been reported that he wants more 3's taken. But if what he's said in the past is what you said and he does not try to execute his plan then he's confused about what he wants to do. And that's worrisome in a HC. And if his philosophy is as you say, it sounds a bit outdated for what's winning in the league now. If you don't have at least 2-3 40% 3pt shooters on the team you're playing catchup

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Well, it's been reported that he wants more 3's taken. But if what he's said in the past is what you said and he does not try to execute his plan then he's confused about what he wants to do. And that's worrisome in a HC. And if his philosophy is as you say, it sounds a bit outdated for what's winning in the league now. If you don't have at least 2-3 40% 3pt shooters on the team you're playing catchup

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Yeah, he said the things about not focusing on the three fairly early in the season and then around February he came out and said he wanted to actually aim for 35 a night. Since he said that, I think it was just after the early Feb Atlanta game, the Pels proceeded to take fewer 3ptAs :hihi:

Pre Feb this year, the Pels averaged 30.5 3PAs a game, a number which, across the entire season would be 28th in the NBA.

From Feb 1st onwards, the Pels averaged 27.9 3PAs a game, a number which across the entire season would be the lowest in the league by 1 full attempt.

So to me, that comment from him was basically him just reacting to the fact that we had just won a few games with good 3pt shooting (we had taken 36 attempts in that Atlanta game, for example, that was immediately prior to this claim to want to shoot more threes). More a reaction than a realisation.

Maybe I'm just being cynical here, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, he said the things about not focusing on the three fairly early in the season and then around February he came out and said he wanted to actually aim for 35 a night. Since he said that, I think it was just after the early Feb Atlanta game, the Pels proceeded to take fewer 3ptAs :hihi:

Pre Feb this year, the Pels averaged 30.5 3PAs a game, a number which, across the entire season would be 28th in the NBA.

From Feb 1st onwards, the Pels averaged 27.9 3PAs a game, a number which across the entire season would be the lowest in the league by 1 full attempt.

So to me, that comment from him was basically him just reacting to the fact that we had just won a few games with good 3pt shooting (we had taken 36 attempts in that Atlanta game, for example, that was immediately prior to this claim to want to shoot more threes). More a reaction than a realisation.

Maybe I'm just being cynical here, I don't know.

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Just seems to prove that WG does not really know what he wants to do. And he's really letting players do what they want especially CJ. He better get a clue soon

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, he said the things about not focusing on the three fairly early in the season and then around February he came out and said he wanted to actually aim for 35 a night. Since he said that, I think it was just after the early Feb Atlanta game, the Pels proceeded to take fewer 3ptAs :hihi:

Pre Feb this year, the Pels averaged 30.5 3PAs a game, a number which, across the entire season would be 28th in the NBA.

From Feb 1st onwards, the Pels averaged 27.9 3PAs a game, a number which across the entire season would be the lowest in the league by 1 full attempt.

So to me, that comment from him was basically him just reacting to the fact that we had just won a few games with good 3pt shooting (we had taken 36 attempts in that Atlanta game, for example, that was immediately prior to this claim to want to shoot more threes). More a reaction than a realisation.

Maybe I'm just being cynical here, I don't know.

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No offensively we had issues. Defensively, on the other hand we made a huge leap forward this year. We jumped from 26th in the league for 3pt % allowed to 1st this year, and 9th in overall points and fg %. So we did have a huge leap in defense, which is Willie’s speciality. I’d be more concerned with him as a coach if we weren’t improving defensively.

I think they need to seriously consider an offensive minded assistant that can possibly take over play calling.

I know they're not going to fire Willie after this season with all the injuries. And it never seemed like there was a disconnect between him and the players like the was with SVG. But going into next season I definitely think his seat should be hot.

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Originally Posted by stevemadden504

I know they're not going to fire Willie after this season with all the injuries. And it never seemed like there was a disconnect between him and the players like the was with SVG. But going into next season I definitely think his seat should be hot.

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There's clearly a disconnect between him and some players.

JV, for example. Is a veteran, but isn't trusted to play in clutch minutes unlike every other vet. Is a veteran but isn't invited to the veterans only meeting with CJ and Nance. Only player I remember seeing cursed off the floor by Green this season.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

There's clearly a disconnect between him and some players.

JV, for example. Is a veteran, but isn't trusted to play in clutch minutes unlike every other vet. Is a veteran but isn't invited to the veterans only meeting with CJ and Nance. Only player I remember seeing cursed off the floor by Green this season.

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He probably cost us two or three games because of his stubbornness regarding JV (he preferred the injured and smaller LNJ). Also, after JAX played well for him down the stretch in '22, to basically shun him for the entire year this year is confounding. So much for developing a lottery pick.

We have to remember, Green wasn't a hot name in coaching circles in summer of 2021 and was a "wish and a prayer selection" by Griff after Jacques Vaughn rebuked him (Just like SVG was after Griff was rebuked by Tyronn Liu the year before).

He shouldn’t be fired but he should be on the hot seat for sure. It’d be one thing if we didn’t have Zion/BI/CJ/Jonas/Trey/Herb on this team but he had plenty of pieces to still get the job done and he fell fairly short. We need to be a perineal playoff team with these guys or we might as well just liquidate the franchise. We are missing yet more playoff experience. He has to be up for it next season. Things won’t always go your way.

The one thing that I appreciate with WG is his willingness to admit and correct his mistakes. Even if it takes often too much time (see stop playing Temple last season or feed more JV late this season) at least he's open to admit he's wrong when provided evidences.

Nothing big is going to change this offseason. We were #1 in the West before Zion went down, and that was largely without BI. There's enough shine on this team that, even if it's fool's gold, everyone gets another chance. But next season is it. If they can't stay healthy and/or they don't make a deep run, scrap it.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

There's clearly a disconnect between him and some players.

JV, for example. Is a veteran, but isn't trusted to play in clutch minutes unlike every other vet. Is a veteran but isn't invited to the veterans only meeting with CJ and Nance. Only player I remember seeing cursed off the floor by Green this season.

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Link to the snub and JV not being in on the vet meeting?

Yes, I saw WG chastise JV on one of those miked-up segments. He talked to him like he was a child saying " Ok you get one more pump fake for the rest of the game" Do you think he'd say that to CJ??? Not on your life.

I don’t want to fire WG but I’d like to have some sort of mentor. I wish Nurse would come for a year.

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Yes, I saw WG chastise JV on one of those miked-up segments. He talked to him like he was a child saying " Ok you get one more pump fake for the rest of the game" Do you think he'd say that to CJ??? Not on your life.

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I saw that clip. They were both laughing about he kept getting one more as long as it kept working.

I would take nick nurse

Zion's body wouldn't last with the minutes Nurse hands out to his stars

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

Zion's body wouldn't last with the minutes Nurse hands out to his stars

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According to Stan, Zions body needs more work.

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

Zion's body wouldn't last with the minutes Nurse hands out to his stars

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In fairness, with the minutes Nurse hands out to stars, nobody's body lasts. Raptors fans are constantly complaining that their roster is exhausted by January and running on fumes thereafter.