Kyle Kuzma or Brandon Ingram

It wasn't long ago when some of the 'analytic' brains in this forum were lamenting the fact that Griff 'settled for Ingram' when the 'right play' would have been to hold out for Kuzma. Two questions....

1. Do they still feel the same way?
2. Where did they go?

I was remembering people that thought BI was the throw in, so the Pels can add him to a future deal for Beal.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

I was remembering people that thought BI was the throw in, so the Pels can add him to a future deal for Beal.

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I think it can be summarized by the old proverb....

"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

Thank God, Griff chose the right trash. lol

I don’t remember it like that at all.

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Originally Posted by donato

I don’t remember it like that at all.

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With all due respect, if you were around here during the summer of '19, and don't remember it that way, that could be a problem for you (it was only four years ago). You might consult a physician.

"Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option…

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.".....Los Angeles Times

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/06/13...ade-to-lakers/

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Originally Posted by As I See It

"Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option…

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.".....Los Angeles Times

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/06/13...ade-to-lakers/

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And just imagine if Griff would have just picked that guy sitting there at 4.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

And just imagine if Griff would have just picked that guy sitting there at 4.

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In hindsight, absolutely. But I'll admit to being one of those who saw all the potential in JAX (I still think there is an elite player somewhere inside of him). But in looking back, Garland was probably the safe pick.

But imagine Kuzma and no 4th or Ingram.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

But imagine Kuzma and no 4th or Ingram.

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Nope, I refuse to do that. Lol

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Originally Posted by As I See It

With all due respect, if you were around here during the summer of '19, and don't remember it that way, that could be a problem for you (it was only four years ago). You might consult a physician.

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Maybe so, but at least I’m not so stupid to believe that Covid was going to go away because of a presidential election.

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Originally Posted by donato

Maybe so, but at least I’m not so stupid to believe that Covid was going to go away because of a presidential election.

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I was trying to be nice and respectful of you, but......

DoNOTNo, you certainly do not.

It wasn't long ago that the wishy-washy brains in this forum was calling this season over.

It was literally last week.

JS

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

It wasn't long ago that the wishy-washy brains in this forum was calling this season over.

It was literally last week.

JS

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Yeah and you already know who was rooting for the Pelicans to lose

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

It wasn't long ago that the wishy-washy brains in this forum was calling this season over.

It was literally last week.

JS

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Yep. It's enough to give you whiplash.

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Originally Posted by donato

I don’t remember it like that at all.

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Not at all. Everyone knew that Griff thought very highly of BI and that he was the main piece in the trade. There were some who thought we should have gotten Kuzma as well but I do not recall anyone (or many) on the forum that thought we should target Kuzma over BI.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Not at all. Everyone knew that Griff thought very highly of BI and that he was the main piece in the trade. There were some who thought we should have gotten Kuzma as well but I do not recall anyone (or many) on the forum that thought we should target Kuzma over BI.

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That's what I remember as well. But also true that not many expected BI to be this good (*when healthy, as per usual)

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Not at all. Everyone knew that Griff thought very highly of BI and that he was the main piece in the trade. There were some who thought we should have gotten Kuzma as well but I do not recall anyone (or many) on the forum that thought we should target Kuzma over BI.

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From the very beginning, Kuzma, not Ingram, was the target. Thank Gawd, Dell was rebuffed and it was Griffin, who 'settled' for Ingram. LOL



Hearing from sources if Lakers want Anthony Davis, who has requested a trade, LA has to start the deal with Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, No. 1 pick. -- Brad Turner
8:30 AM ? Jan 28, 2019


https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...rst-round-pick

LOL

the crazy part of that summer was that majority of the posters on this site honestly believed that ainge was going to trade tatum and crew for a rental AD lol....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

the crazy part of that summer was that majority of the posters on this site honestly believed that ainge was going to trade tatum and crew for a rental AD lol....

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No, that was long before AD's handlers said he would not re-sign with Boston. After that all the Boston talk died off and all the attention turned to the Lakers and Knicks.

Before that I believe Tatum was asked about new orleans and he gave lip service that he would make the best of it.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

No, that was long before AD's handlers said he would not re-sign with Boston. After that all the Boston talk died off and all the attention turned to the Lakers and Knicks.

Before that I believe Tatum was asked about new orleans and he gave lip service that he would make the best of it.

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Yep, absolutely. To think, we could have agreed to the Kevin Knox deal instead of the Ingram deal. Oh, joy!!!

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Not at all. Everyone knew that Griff thought very highly of BI and that he was the main piece in the trade. There were some who thought we should have gotten Kuzma as well but I do not recall anyone (or many) on the forum that thought we should target Kuzma over BI.

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Exactly. The OP is the revisionist history teller, despite some outlier “analyst” tweets, BI was always the centerpiece player even with the blood clot concern.

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Originally Posted by donato

Exactly. The OP is the revisionist history teller, despite some outlier “analyst” tweets, BI was always the centerpiece player even with the blood clot concern.

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LOL The 'OP' (the guy you called stupid) knows what he's talking about. You, on the other hand, are a lost little 'kitty' (or equivalent).

So Donato, you simply Donat(n)o. It must be rough.

Ingram added weight in the off-season which all the analysts credit for his new-found willingness to accept contact, but that did not happen until about 10 games ago. Not sure if the famous big toe problem made him shy away from contact, but I've been complaining about that fear since he arrived. If he continues to be courageous and it doesn't result in another injury, he should be able to finally be the consistent threat we have needed. The challenge will be to keep this mentality when Zion returns, and for the refs to be consistent over time even though they probably won't give Zion the same calls that BI is deservedly getting now. If they also back off on accurately calling fouls for BI because of Zion we will suffer.

The other thing that BI is doing much more over the last 10 games is advancing the ball quickly rather than slow-walking it up to the mid-court. That has cut down on turnovers and given him more time to locate assist targets. We need to do that even more, including CJ. That part of pace seems very important for this team, even if we have a big lead and are milking the clock.

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Originally Posted by NOEngineer

Ingram added weight in the off-season which all the analysts credit for his new-found willingness to accept contact, but that did not happen until about 10 games ago. Not sure if the famous big toe problem made him shy away from contact, but I've been complaining about that fear since he arrived. If he continues to be courageous and it doesn't result in another injury, he should be able to finally be the consistent threat we have needed. The challenge will be to keep this mentality when Zion returns, and for the refs to be consistent over time even though they probably won't give Zion the same calls that BI is deservedly getting now. If they also back off on accurately calling fouls for BI because of Zion we will suffer.

The other thing that BI is doing much more over the last 10 games is advancing the ball quickly rather than slow-walking it up to the mid-court. That has cut down on turnovers and given him more time to locate assist targets. We need to do that even more, including CJ. That part of pace seems very important for this team, even if we have a big lead and are milking the clock.

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When the organization decided what many of us already knew, CJ is no PG and will never be an effective orchestrator, and took the ball out of his hands, the team and CJ (offensively) has flourished...even JV has re-emerged. ISO-CJ was killing this team.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

When the organization decided what many of us already knew, CJ is no PG and will never be an effective orchestrator, and took the ball out of his hands, the team and CJ (offensively) has flourished...even JV has re-emerged. ISO-CJ was killing this team.

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Absolutely, CJ is NOT a facilitator , he's not a PG. He's a good spot-up shooter that can occasionally drive to the basket. This team needs 1, A true PG 2, another 40% plus 3 point shooter, and maybe a 5 that can switch and score

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Originally Posted by As I See It

When the organization decided what many of us already knew, CJ is no PG and will never be an effective orchestrator, and took the ball out of his hands, the team and CJ (offensively) has flourished...even JV has re-emerged. ISO-CJ was killing this team.

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It's almost as if they meant for someone else to handle the ball most of the time instead of CJ. I wonder if they were thinking about that big dude that is really good at basketball when he isn't nursing an injury?

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Absolutely, CJ is NOT a facilitator , he's not a PG. He's a good spot-up shooter that can occasionally drive to the basket. This team needs 1, A true PG 2, another 40% plus 3 point shooter, and maybe a 5 that can switch and score

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Agree 100% with your wish list in that order.

I remain hopeful that Dyson and Jose can handle the 1, with significant help from "point Zion." I'd prefer to focus on a major (defensive) upgrade at the 5. But I wholeheartedly agree that CJ should not be the primary ball-handler, like ever.

The debate was always BI and Ball vs Tatum and Brown. The knock on BI was that a heart condition scare was happening that made certain posters think he'd never play again.

The team is currently doing great so toxic people have to find something to be toxic about.

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

I remain hopeful that Dyson and Jose can handle the 1, with significant help from "point Zion." I'd prefer to focus on a major (defensive) upgrade at the 5. But I wholeheartedly agree that CJ should not be the primary ball-handler, like ever.

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....and I guess we tell BI to go to the back of the bus.

I would not trust such an important role (even on a Sunday Church League team) to a guy that plays about 38% of the time (look up the numbers). And, Jose' is a defensive liability against half the teams in the league, but he's a nice 'spot player' to have on your team. He would either be posted up or PnR'ed to death if he is asked to play 20+ minutes a night; it could be a blood bath. I like Jose' a lot, but his size limits him.

An NBA-caliber point guard is this team's biggest need. They knew it two summers ago when they targeted Lowery and CP3, settled for CJ at the trade deadline, and then drafted DD last Summer. DD will be good in time, but he just made 20 yrs old two weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

LOL The 'OP' (the guy you called stupid) knows what he's talking about. You, on the other hand, are a lost little 'kitty' (or equivalent).
So Donato, you simply Donat(n)o. It must be rough.

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Sorry, but it is well known that BI was Griff's top target in a deal with the Lakers. Even when Griff was still on Sirius, he was infatuated with BI.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Sorry, but it is well known that BI was Griff's top target in a deal with the Lakers. Even when Griff was still on Sirius, he was infatuated with BI.

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Sorry backatcha'!! Not once in this whole thread did I say that Griff preferred Kuzma. I did say that the Pelicans (and some in your forum) wanted Kuzma and not Ingram at the outset (as in the Dell Demps version of the trade). In fact that was the stumbling block at the trade deadline before the Demps firing, or don't we remember?

To say I said otherwise is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Sorry backatcha'!! Not once in this whole thread did I say that Griff preferred Kuzma. I did say that the Pelicans (and some in your forum) wanted Kuzma and not Ingram at the outset (as in the Dell Demps version of the trade). In fact that was the stumbling block at the trade deadline before the Demps firing, or don't we remember?

To say I said otherwise is disingenuous.

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I never recall Kuzma being the target of anyone. Not sure Dell even got too far down the road with the trade negotiations before he was replaced. It was common knowledge that a Davis trade would occur in the offseason. Demps was fired 4 months before the AD trade, so what he wanted or did not want is pretty irrelevant. He was not even around for the serious negotiations.

You did claim that all the "analytic" brains on this forum were lamenting that Griff settled for BI instead of holding out for Kuzma. I do not recall a big outroar from those on this forum about that.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I never recall Kuzma being the target of anyone. Not sure Dell even got too far down the road with the trade negotiations before he was replaced. It was common knowledge that a Davis trade would occur in the offseason. Demps was fired 4 months before the AD trade, so what he wanted or did not want is pretty irrelevant. He was not even around for the serious negotiations.

You did claim that all the "analytic" brains on this forum were lamenting that Griff settled for BI instead of holding out for Kuzma. I do not recall a big outroar from those on this forum about that.

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.....and I do. So, I'll defer to my unabridged memory, if you don't mind.

I don't remember anyone wanting Kuzma over BI. I thought it was more people wanting both of them. But I don't remember for sure and we ended up with the better player anyway.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

I don't remember anyone wanting Kuzma over BI. I thought it was more people wanting both of them. But I don't remember for sure and we ended up with the better player anyway.

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Here is a counter offer the Pelicans made. Conspicuously absent is the name 'Ingram'.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-trade-...-anthony-davis

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Here is a counter offer the Pelicans made. Conspicuously absent is the name 'Ingram'.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-trade-...-anthony-davis

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Come on, you are stretching when you quote some random website. That date was just a few days before the actual trade and when Griff was in charge. So, it is obviously BS. We ended up getting more than that and it was no secret how much Griff thought of BI. Not sure what you are trying to suggest, but who are all the people from this forum that you said wanted Kuzma over BI?

Don’t engage flat-earther trolls.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Come on, you are stretching when you quote some random website. That date was just a few days before the actual trade and when Griff was in charge. So, it is obviously BS. We ended up getting more than that and it was no secret how much Griff thought of BI. Not sure what you are trying to suggest, but who are all the people from this forum that you said wanted Kuzma over BI?

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It is what it is. I've cited two sources indicating that Kuzma was the primary target. If you are not satisfied, that's okay. Some people cite "The View" as their truth and other's cite "Outnumbered". It is what it is, and I guess some people have the final say on what is "BS" (your word...not mine).



ASIDE: How long are you going to allow the 'Do-nat-(n)o' guy call other posters names. It's happened three times in this thread. Is there a new standard for this forum or is the rule just selectively enforced?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Here is a counter offer the Pelicans made. Conspicuously absent is the name 'Ingram'.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-trade-...-anthony-davis

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To clarify, I meant people on the board. And I don't trust anything released like on that website. The only things getting leaked are exactly what each organization wants leaked to improve their leverage.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

It is what it is. I've cited two sources indicating that Kuzma was the primary target. If you are not satisfied, that's okay.

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You STILL have not indicated who all the posters on this forum are (that you claimed in your OP) wanted Kuzma instead of BI. I do not recall that being the case, but since you claimed it so, I am curious where all these posters are.