Nets come to you and are just gonna blow it all up and try to build again with good human beings. Will give you KD for Jonas, Trey, Herb, Graham, Temple, Kira, the 2023 pick (w/Lakers swap rights), and the 2024/25 Lakers pick
No negotiation. Take it or leave it and they move onto the next team on their list. What do you say?
Would You....
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11-03-2022, 08:06 PMMichaelMcNamaraWould You....
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11-03-2022, 08:17 PMAUSSIE_PELICAN11/10 times no.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
I just don't think KD is the piece to win it all, if you gut the team and their future. -
11-03-2022, 08:23 PMMichaelMcNamara
GUT the team and future? You still have one of the best young cores in basketball even after the trade. Plus all your own picks after 2023, the Bucks pick and swaps. BI, Zion, Daniels, Jose all young plus picks to come. How many teams even have that young talent, and then you throw CJ and KD on top as the vets. The team is not gutted, nor is their future lost. 27 teams would kill just to have BI, Zion, Daniels and Jose as their "future"
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11-03-2022, 08:51 PMAUSSIE_PELICANI just consider Herb, Trey and this years pick as an important part of the future and not one I would give up for KD.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
For Giannis then yes. -
11-03-2022, 09:12 PMEman5805
Heh. Everyone wants to keep all their things once they realize they have it good. Now the prospect of getting KD is a total possibility and suddenly we're too good for him? I'd hate to lose JV, Trey, and that Lakers swap but so be it. I think I'd do it.
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11-03-2022, 09:17 PMAUSSIE_PELICANThe window is 3 years. KD is 34, will he play past 37 and still be as good as he is today?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
All that for a 3 year gamble isn't one I would take. -
11-03-2022, 09:19 PMMichaelMcNamaraAnd then, in 3 years, when Zion and BI were in their primes and now had TONS of big game experience. And Dyson entering his early prime.... they would be a bad team?Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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11-03-2022, 09:30 PMAUSSIE_PELICANNo, where did I say bad team?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
I said I wouldn't gamble at the expense of Trey, Herb and the 2023 pick for a declining KD.
This team now is a good team, take out Jax, Graham and Temple from this team and add better players and this team is top 3 for the next few years in the West.
Then make that final trade with the war chest assets for a real star and not one that is towards the end of his prime in KD and win it all. -
11-03-2022, 09:45 PMMichaelMcNamara
You are assuming that dude is just gonna be there at that magical time when our window is absolutely perfect. And even if he is, these windows dont stay open for as long as you think they can. Sure, unload the war chest for Jokic and maybe you get him. I promise, something will happen to close that window way sooner than you think. This idea that this team will/can be at the contender level for a decade is a pipe dream.
I could see not doing it, but saying (which you have) that gutting the team and the future and saying they would only have the 3 year window is a little hyperbolic IMO -
11-03-2022, 09:46 PMSovereign
Yes, I would. I was leaning towards being in favor of getting KD when the discussions were BI or Zion for him. Now this hypothetical is giving me the chance to have all of them? I'd think about it first but yeah.
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11-03-2022, 09:56 PMMichaelMcNamara
I would hate to lose Murphy and this Lakers pick, but I would do it. How often in your lifetime would you get to root for a team with THAT much talent? I have faith that they can find quality 8-12th men to come and play here and fill roles between min signings, 2nd round picks, and even UDFAs
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11-03-2022, 10:52 PMcoreylaron
So what’s the best argument for declining that option? I would say that it would feel kinda lame losing herb and Trey. They embody the spirit of the team. Also, atm that 2023 pick could turn out to be wemby
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11-03-2022, 11:04 PMPelicansfun
I don’t think KD’s ego could accept being in New Orleans with Brandon Ingram as the leader. I also don’t think KD is a leader and if he tried to take that role, the results would be disappointing (see Nets). Last thing, Durant has played about as many games as Zion the last 3 seasons, so having depth on this team is paramount considering stars rarely play full seasons anymore.
I want to say yes to the deal because of the potential, but I don’t think KD would buy in. And without that, it’s a hard no. -
11-03-2022, 11:05 PMMichaelMcNamaraI would say the best argument would be that you be amplifying a strength without improving your weakness. If KD doesnt want to play D like 2018 KD any more, then you could get outgunned, even if fully healthy in later rounds of the playoffs. You could also argue that adding another high usage guy, Zion might not develop other parts of his offensive game. You could also argue, as some have on here, that Herb has Kawhi like potential and Trey can be a 7 foot Klay.Quote:
Originally Posted by coreylaron
I wouldnt agree with those arguments, but you could make them and not be insane -
11-03-2022, 11:20 PMAUSSIE_PELICANIf the window with KD is only 3 years, you don't think the window with all the assets they have now and the potential to get a Jokic or Embiid later down the track equals more than 3 years of a window?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-04-2022, 03:27 AMEyquem
One of my favorite What ifs of the NBA in the last few decades was Orlando's attempt to pair a young Tracy McGrady with a prime Grant Hill... in theory it was a great plan-- to have two super versatile swing players start together-- but because of Hill's slew of injury issues that hit immediately after their signings, the two never had a chance to show what might have been. I can see the same type of expectations for a Durant/Ingram pairing, except that Durant is possibly on the verge of leaving his prime rather than being in the middle of it. It's really tempting, but it looks to me like Durant's defense is already on the decline. His last three years of DRtg have been the three highest of his career, which of course is somewhat context related, but I think in looking at all of his numbers, there's a case to be made that he's no longer the guy he was in his first year with the Warriors, where he was just a crazy good defender. I absolutely get the argument for (especially the window angle), but I'd rather see the Pels go forward with Herb, Trey, & JV...but, man, it's a close call. I might wake up tomorrow and change my mind.
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11-04-2022, 07:18 AMMichaelMcNamaraNo. Because 1, I think that is like a 5% chance in the first place, where KD is 100% in this scenario. And 2, that would be a few years from now and in the NBA, something always happens. Always. The OKC window looked to be open for a decade. Lebron was gonna win not 5, not 6, not 7… Something always happens. A 3 or 4 year window with that level of talent (CJ, KD, Zion, and BI) is more than any GM could ever dream of hoping forQuote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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11-04-2022, 07:50 AMhornetsrebirthCulture is something we have struggled to build the entire time this team has been in New Orleans and only finally succeeded. You dont mess with that. We have had top tier stars before that were not happy to be here and it was like a loveless marriage. Plus this trade would make us way too thin at center without Jonas, and KD and BI basically give you the same thing, except KD is rapidly aging and misses a lot of games. No thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
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11-04-2022, 08:58 AMEman5805By that logic don’t draft or sign anyone. Wouldn’t wanna mess with our culture. Oh. We arbitrarily don’t care about free agents or draft picks messing with culture because reasons. Why would Durant mess with our culture anyway? Because he left the Thunder to win two championships? Or is it just losing the quiet strength of Herb and Trey? As for injuries, I mean BI does that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
Speaking of I’m not concerned about BI or Durant bumping. Durant is a much better 3pt shooter. He doesn’t have to occupy the same spaces on the floor. And being long and versatile offensively is no step backwards. -
11-04-2022, 09:01 AMUpper DeckerI don't like you for making my brain engage in this thought experiment. BOOOOOO! hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-04-2022, 09:12 AMMichaelMcNamara
Personally, I think this would be the best time in his career to bring in BI, and probably the only time he would be happy to come to NOLA (outside of as a 19yr old rookie)
He must be miserable right now, had tons of great things to say about our roster, and likes Willie and Collins apparently. He wouldn’t have to have everything on his shoulders and would be happy letting BI be the face while he just “hoops”
People would hate losing the young dudes at first, and I get that. But by February, when this team is smoking everyone and Trey and Herb are just guys on a 10th seed Brooklyn team, nobody would be complaining -
11-04-2022, 09:46 AMDarkHornet
I'm tempted by this proposition, mostly because at some point we're going to have too many players to pay everyone their value, so a tough call will need to be made at some point. Those Laker picks going out make me a bit nervous, but there's also the possibility those picks are at their absolute highest value right now, and will only go down. I think I might pull the trigger, but I worry a little bit about where that leaves us at center.
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11-04-2022, 11:15 AMPaKwAn
If im the nets and are blowing things up, I'd rather go after dyson than a guy like herb who is already 24yrs old.. would be nice to get Claxton as well since nance would be our only decent big.
For the original offer, i think that's a good deal...we would instantly be a top contender when healthy. Our defense will still be bad and our rebounding will get hurt as well.. offensively
, good luck stopping them. -
11-04-2022, 11:52 AM13 - 3
Wow talk about a blow up. Would KD want to play here?
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11-04-2022, 12:06 PMhornetsrebirthHow did you make that leap? Adding a free agent or draft pick is not messing with the culture. Trading away multiple starters and key bench players for a mercurial hard to please star is messing with the culture. Those two scenarios are not even close to the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
Durant wielded power over every move to create his team and then gave the front office an ultimatum to fire his head coach and GM or trade him. That is the kind of thing that messes with team culture. Furthermore, if you compare the last 3 season of KD and BI you will see a big difference in games played. but pretending that BI was as unavailable as KD, you are saying that means it would be a good idea to give up major assets to pair them because. wait why? -
11-04-2022, 02:52 PMThe DudAt the risk of ignoring the "no negotiation" aspect...I think the Nets would be much more interested in having Daniels in that deal than Herb for age AND style reasons. And I also think the Pels, given their Phase 3 status if they suddenly added KD... would prefer to keep Herb than to keep Daniels. Win/win for both sides. I don't consider Herb a preference for a Phase 1 team, which Nets would be if they dropped KD.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
FWIW: My small group of professional arguers decided a while back to rate NBA teams by Phase based on the following. Phase 1...tanking or severely rebuilding. Phase 2...borderline playoff team but nowhere near a serious contender (probably the worst of all Phases). Phase 3...a SERIOUS contender...immediately
FWIW (Part 2) Please..quit messing with my main man...Herb. By now, it should be apparent I'm a stone cold "Herbaholic". -
11-05-2022, 12:51 AMDarkhorse985
IMO the trade should be a 3 team deal with the Lakers.
Pels get KD and Nic Claxton
Lakers get Kyrie Irving and Devonte Graham (3 point shooting)
Nets get Russell Westbrook, Trey Murphy, JV, Jaxson Hayes, Kira Lewis, Garrett Temple, and 4 1sts (Lakers or Pels 2023, Lakers 2024 or 2025, Bucks 2025, and Lakers 2027).
That is a great haul to the Nets for blowing it up. Honestly, that would be the best they could possibly get for KD and Irving at this point.
Pels lineup after trade:
PG: McCullum/Alvarado
SG: Ingram/Daniels
SF: Durant/Jones/Marshall
PF: Zion/Nance
C: Hernangomez/Claxton
Hernangomez is terribly underrated and underutilized right now. He is a worthy starting center for a team like this. Easy 10/10 guy playing 25 minutes.
You could argue that the Nets could still contend for a playoff spot with this lineup and a decent coach.
PG: Westbrook/Mills
SG: Murphy/Curry/Thomas
SF: O’Neale/Harris
PF: Simmons/Warren
C: JV/Hayes -
11-05-2022, 09:26 AMhornetsrebirth
I promise yall, winning with a homegrown team will feel so much better and more satisfying than trading away the team to rent a superstar for a couple years.
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11-05-2022, 09:41 AMtdcreator
I’d say no. I like our team and the chemistry. If I got to keep Trey and put protection on Lakers picks then maybe. My protections would be if we keep Lakers pick say top 5 protected, then we give up 2 of ours/bucks picks. I like the Claxton with KD.
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11-05-2022, 10:07 AMMichaelMcNamaraChemistry is fine now but eventually everyone wants more. You see it already with Hernangomez. If JV keeps getting 20 mins and 2 shots, he will get frustrated too. Trey eventually will want more touches (and money), whoever you take with the Laker pick wont want to be an 8th man, etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by tdcreator
This doesnt last forever. Right now, they havent won, havent accomplished much individually and just are happy to be playing and winning for the first time. That gets old and they always want more. Just having this insanely deep roster that you keep adding top 10 picks to and hoping they all stay happy, and sacrifice for the greater good.... I promise you that wont happen. -
11-05-2022, 10:15 AMAusPelIn the hierachy of problems a team could have from Absolute God Tier (AGT) to Total Trainwreck (TTT), this has to be right in the upper echelonQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
(or lower, depending on your vantage point) -
11-05-2022, 12:08 PMDarkhorse985What are we trading away in the above mentioned scenario? A young, quality 3 and D player, 3 lotto tickets, a 30+ year old quality offensive center who is very limited defensively, and fluff for 3 years of a superstar making us an instant championship contender?Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
Also, this team isn’t homegrown. It’s built mainly of players traded to the Pels. -
11-05-2022, 12:46 PMMichaelMcNamara
You are trading away “dreams and hopes”— fans love to imagine their young players growing internally into the best possible version of themselves. That process is very fun when it happens
For some, winning with mercenaries isn’t as fun. I get that. But you also have to consider Herb plateaus as just an okay player. Trey as a solid starter, etc. which is very possible IMO -
11-05-2022, 12:50 PMAs I See It
May I offer this:
A 22 Year old Zion Williamson straight up for a 34 year old Kevin Durant. If you want, you can toss in Temple to open a spot for EJ.
PG: CJ and Jose'
SG: BI and DD
SF: Herb and TM3
PF: KD and Naji
C: JV and LNJ
Additionally: Graham, Hayes, Willy, Kira, and EJ and most importantly, we retain the '23 draft swap with Lakers.
Honestly, my biggest concern is whether BI and KD can mutually co-exist in this scenario. -
11-05-2022, 01:14 PMAusPel
I think BI and KD fit better than Zion and BI
Zion is limited and the fanbase needs to get used to it
No growth nearing 4 years in
Pure bully ball with 0 defense doesn't win titles. Comes close, yes
If I had to trade one of Zion or BI, it's Zion 100/100 times
Hell, I'd even consider keeping Trey over Zion -
11-05-2022, 01:22 PMAs I See ItAgree, though reluctantly!!Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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11-05-2022, 01:29 PMAusPel
Just got me thinking how insane Giannis is.
He needs to go down a top 5ish guy of all time -
11-05-2022, 01:38 PMAusPel
I mean, anywhere in the top 15 should kind of be interchangeable, except Jordan 1 and LeBron 2. Probably Wilt and Kareem 3 and 4
Then 5 to 15 fairly interchangeable, which is no way a slight on anyone -
11-05-2022, 01:38 PMhornetsrebirthBecause why?Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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11-05-2022, 01:45 PMAusPelKD can defend the post better than Zion and has an array of offensive moves Zion can only dream ofQuote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
Makes him easier to mesh with BI on both ends -
11-05-2022, 01:56 PMhornetsrebirthDefensively KD is not known as a stopper, his rating (going by stats) is worse than Zion. Also he typically guards wings not power forwards. Zion does need to improve on defense but he absolutely can, he is a young guy still ascending who has played less than 100 games, where as KD is approaching a decline.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
On offense Zion does a different thing than KD and BI, he pounds the paint. Whereas BI and KD are practically the same player. If you ask people for 1 player in league similar to KD, the name you expect to hear most is BI. Players that mesh well together are usually those with offsetting skill sets, not identical ones. -
11-05-2022, 02:24 PMAusPelWhy did Tatum and Brown lead their team to the finals?Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
If Kawhi was heathly, it would have most likely been Clippers v Boston in the Finals
Tatum + Brown
Kawhi + PG
I sense a theme here
On paper, BI and Zion seem like a good fit. Would have dominated the 2010s era. All Zion wants is to bully ball. Not even unpredictable bully ball, always to the left bully ball. Also he's not Shaq, the greatest bully baller in history
This is the 6'8 6'9 wing era
I truly believe Trey could develop into a more impactful player, deep into the playoffs than Zion might ever be -
11-05-2022, 03:03 PMAs I See ItAt this point in his career he pales in comparison to his predecessor, AD. And, it's not close.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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11-05-2022, 03:15 PMhornetsrebirthTwo young stars (literally 10 years younger than KD) who were able to finally figure something out after playing together for years, led their team on a run without facing the stiffest of competition in the East. But why were they sub 500 in the middle of January? Not exactly why you call dominating the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
The Clippers have never been to the Finals, however they had their best run in franchise history in 2021, when Kawhi did not play a single game all season or postseason. Kawhi + PG literally didnt happen at all in 2021, how in the world are you using that season to justify your theory of this being the era of two wings? Sensing a theme, lol sure.Quote:
If Kawhi was heathly, it would have most likely been Clippers v Boston in the Finals
Tatum + Brown
Kawhi + PG
I sense a theme here
Im not saying it cant work, there are isolated examples of success with two super high level guys with overlapping skill sets, but a more common formula for success is a balanced team containing stars with complimentary skill sets. -
11-05-2022, 03:31 PMAlgiersraised
lol no way kd can stay where he at
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11-05-2022, 04:21 PMluckyman^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
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11-05-2022, 04:52 PMheybigmattTrey with his low shot release and his poor footwork coming off screens - don?t think he ever becomes a starter. Fine bench player.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara