I don’ t know why the first thread got locked. Carry on here and sorry for the inconvenience. I’ m just going to sit back and continue to watch.
Have a great day!:)
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I don’ t know why the first thread got locked. Carry on here and sorry for the inconvenience. I’ m just going to sit back and continue to watch.
Have a great day!:)
Okay I see why it was locked. Let’s try to do this again. We can do it!
The real debate is: Would you trade everything else for KD?
Because they ain’t moving BI
So, would you do: Temple, Graham, Hayes, Kira , Daniels, Nance, Herb, Murphy, 4-5 picks and 3-4 swaps for KD?
You are left with the big 5, Jose, Naji, Willy, and 3-4 FAs who sign for the min to come chase a ring. Maybe a buy out guy or two in March. Next summer, you can add a BAE and a taxpayer MLE guy. Maybe buy a late first
But basically, you are trying to win a title over the next two years with what could be one of the most talented starting 5s of all time plus a weak bench. Then, in 3 or 4 years, you have Zion and BI in their primes, but likely nothing else
I feel like most will say no to that, so if you are in that camp, put your best non BI and Zion offer. Mine is:
Jonas, Herb, Graham, Temple, Murphy, Kira, Hayes, Pels picks in 2023 (and the swap rights with LA), 2026 (plus swap rights with Mil), and 2028. Plus Lakers 2024/25 pick and Bucks 2027 pick. Swap rights with Pels in 2025, 27 and 29
That’s 4 picks (3 could be very good) and 3 swaps. Plus good prospects in Herb and Murphy. Lotto tickets in Kira and Hayes. And Jonas, who could be kept as a player to help or flipped for more capital
That’s a ton for KD. But I gotta keep Daniels. Will be an awesome connector for all those high usage guys. If they insist on Daniels, I get Herb and one of the picks back. If they want all three young guys, I get the Lakers draft capital back (the swap and the 24/25 pick)
I can’t give it all. But if KD is good with Willie and Collins and wants to come, I give up most of it
I don’t think we can get KD even if we give them everything. Let alone, keeping two guys. I am just saying what my max would be
Let me answer your question with another question. If our entire team was now the San Antonio Spurs, and Pop was the coach, would HE agree to that trade in order to get KD? I'd think not. That's not the San Antonio way. And the SA way has been extremely successful the past quarter century. So maybe we should follow that path.
New Orleans does not need an easily disgruntled and aging star.
Just wait out his value to keep steadily dropping. Durant got to make this Ben Simmons messy.
You mean the team that traded Kawhi for scraps and let the other team get a title?
Nah, I aint following their way of the past few years. Game has changed.
They were ahead of the curve, scouting international and got Tony and Manu, and kept the dynasty afloat as a result. They have no competitive advantages any more, and dont bow down to players - which will result in mediocrity, like we have seen the last few years. Not saying I dont respect how they dont bow down to these divas, but they wont be relevant as a result any time soon.
Again, this all assumes KD is excited to come to NOLA -- which yes, he could change his mind on in 2-3 years if history is any indicator. But if you want to talk hypotheticals.... if KD was on the team and we were going into the season with a starting 5 of CJ-BI-KD-Zion-Jonas and someone came on here talking about trading KD for Herb, a bunch of unknowns and some picks, nobody would say yes to that.
I dont think the Nets take a lesser deal than anything that is on the table today. In other words, I dont think his value will "drop." They wont make a deal just to make a deal or just take the best of several lowball deals. Whoever gets KD is gonna have to pay big time, or he wont be moved. Now, maybe some of our guys start the season off looking like studs and Nets like a Trey Murphy more in Feb than they do now, or Herb took a step, Hayes makes a Robert Williams type leap, etc. But the price aint coming down IMO
I’d like to keep Trey (need his versatility), Kira(because his value is prob kinda low), and Daniels (also for versatility). All these players are cheap and cost controlled. Just have to figure out our big situation.
CJ, Kira
BI, Daniels
KD, Trey
Zion, (Trey, KD, BI in certain lineups)
?(maybe Hayes if we could manage but I trust FO with whomever), Billy
I think it is very clear the fan base wont want to give up, on a message board, what it would take to actually get KD. Too much uncertainty, too much attachment, etc.
But, for the sake of the thought experiment, lets say I removed one part of the uncertainty. Lets say I guarantee the following with KD over the next 3 years: 1 title, 1 WCF exit, 1 2nd round exit
For purposes of the thought experiment.... would you give up all the young guys, the picks, and the swaps for that?
You can put the 12 best players on a team and it wouldn’t guarantee a title
Read what I wrote again… it’s a thought experiment to try and stabilize a variable to see what the thinker values
If I guarantee a title (in the thought experiment!!) are you willing to have a likely worse 2026-2032? Are you willing to risk a possible title with homegrown guys you like for a definite title with a mercenary you will have no connection to?
Thought experiments are put forth to help clarify priorities. Of many things you like, what do you like most?
I'll play along. Yes. If we're guaranteed to win a title, goodbye Herb and hello KD.
I'm 46 years old. The last time my team won a title was 2001 (Miami Hurricanes football). I'm a season ticket holder. I'd like to be in the gym when the Pelicans win the title. That would be something!
Literally all the picks and young players. That is so much fun. It's a season and experience I would never forget. Plus, if KD asks out after year 3, there may not be much around Zion and BI but if Zion is truly a top 5 guy, I think we can continue to get by with little to no bench.
Griff using clark and windhorst to dampen the fire the Nets tried to start for a bidding war lol
Aug 9th: via Kristian Winfield @ New York Daily News: The New Orleans Pelicans remain interested in a deal for Kevin Durant, according to a source, and can put together a compelling package around All-Star forward Brandon Ingram, role players like Herbert Jones, Devonte Graham and Jose Alvarado, and the remaining draft compensation they received from both the Los Angeles Lakers in the Anthony Davis trade and the Milwaukee Bucks in the Jrue Holiday trade.
Nets using mouthpiece to manufacture bidding war.
Today/Yesterday Clark and Windhorst both have same report (from Griff, no doubt): The Pelicans are unwilling to include Brandon Ingram in a trade offer for Nets star Kevin Durant, league sources tell Christian Clark of NOLA.com.
-AND-
The Brooklyn Nets have not gotten any closer to trading Kevin Durant since the superstar asked the team to dismiss head coach Steve Nash and general manager Sean Marks, reported ESPN's Brian Windhorst on "Get Up" Monday.
Durant reportedly made the request to Nets owner Joe Tsai earlier in August, with Tsai publically backing his coach and front office member soon after the report surfaced.
Windhorst adds the Nets are reportedly not receiving upgraded trade packages after originally being underwhelmed with the offers they received, while Durant has apparently not forced Brooklyn to ramp up the trade negotiation process following his ultimatum.
I just can’t bear to lose the mystery boxes or the Lakers pick. What if it turns into Wenbangyamama? We could become an enduring elite team for the next ten years or so. Become so good it becomes a talking point to insult us for never actually winning. I’d accept that future.
Of course there’s all the what ifs in the world for those who seek it.
Grif playing mind games. Don’t worry he won’t move Ingram or Zion or C.J.
Up next Boston, Will Boston Buy or Pass on Durant?
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/...ing-by-the-day
I loathe barstool, but this is a good article. I agree with this take:
This whole thing is crazy when you sit back and think about it. This is Kevin Durant! One of the best players to ever play the game! You would think teams would be bending over backwards to bring in that type of talent. But it just goes to show you how deep the NBA is. Teams care about age/health/etc, especially when you are either already contending, or are a young team on the rise. If KD was like 31, he's probably already traded by now.
But for the moment, it looks like the market has spoken and there's just nothing out there.
Hate Barstool? Why? Because they act like men and not sad, wimpy, soft feminists?
Mac you've been wild lately :hihi:
I don't pay attention to them much. My only thoughts are Big Cat and PFT are funny and Portnoy is a weirdo
Ringer weighs in on star-chasing vs. continuity strategies… https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/8...ter-continuity
All of these debates and articles eventually boil down to 'championships' -- wider window vs bigger window, continuity vs talent, etc. But all with that one thing in mind -- what gives you the best chance to win a title.
Personally, I have become a journey over destination guy the more I have lived this weird thing called life. I might be wrong, but I really really dont think it was a ton of fun for Lakers fans to win the 2020 title. I bet that Nuggets fans experienced more joy from 2018-2022 than Lakers fans did in that same stretch, even though the Lakers won a title. I bet Grizzlies fans had WAY more fun last year than Lakers fans had in 2020.
If we were somehow able to measure joy, I would bet that Pels fans would experience more watching drafted guys like DD, Herb, and Trey grow and play their hearts out and fall short every year for the next 7 years than winning a title with KD in two years and then have it eventually disolve a la Miami Heat where some of the stars age out (Wade, Bosh) and the other leaves as a result, and no young dudes come up to help out because the cupboard is bare.
I just dont believe that kind of title brings as much joy as people think it does. The counter would be the Raptors and what that mercenary title did for that fan base. But they also had Lowry and some major homegrown pieces - Siakam, FVV, OG, etc. I think if you get KD and keep say Herb, and he is a big part of the title, then it would be Raptors-esque
Thrilled to read the barstool quotes. Don't screw this up, Pels! We have the makings of something truly special and as a new ticket holder, I'm excited to be along for the ride. Blowing up our promising young roster for an aging, unlikable primadonna chasing a ring is the exact opposite of what I want us to do. New Orleans wants to care about its players. It's always been that way.
Most policy decisions are more about trade offs than right v. wrong. Agree there would be much more satisfaction watching our home-grown talent go for a chip than via an aging, disgruntled megastar. Also, standing pat spreads out risk on the downside. If you move all your young depth and KD breaks down/becomes unhappy, you are really up the creek…
Pretty much.
Another reason for Griff to stick with the homegrown approach: job security. If we continue to develop players, the pressure to win NOW is off. You kick that pressure down the road. You cash in your chips for KD and it doesn't work out? You're getting fired.
I think all agree with this. The debate, IMO, is —- If you could peek into the future and see the following two outcomes, which would you choose:
A) Trade for KD. Go to WCF in year 1, win chip in year two, and then 2nd round, 2nd round, first round, first round…Zion and/or BI start to look elsewhere because of inability to build a great team around them, eventual trade one or both and retool/rebuild
B) Don’t trade for KD. Two out of the three of DD, Herb, and Trey really develop, along with one more guy we draft over next four years. Combined with Zion and/or BI, you have 4 or 5 guys who become Pels for the majority of their career (say 9-10 years). Play their primes here, all are loved by fan base for decades. But it’s a 90s Jazz situation where they are always 50 wins, get close a few times, maybe even a Finals trip or two. But never win it
You KNOW those are the two outcomes…which do you choose?
It's a red herring argument because obviously you don't KNOW you'll never win a title without trading for KD (I think it's very possible). But regardless, I'd still choose B. Give me long-term relevance and players I'm invested in - and who are invested in the city - any day. The Saints have painfully failed to win another title for nearly 15 years, but I've been a rabid fan over that period because we we've been a team that's FUN to pull for with the arrow seemingly always pointed even further up.
I also measure in the "almost got 'em" of it all too. There is a tangible bit of fan trauma I'll call it. Like how Saints fans feel right now. Consisrtently good enough to win every game, but we get to the playoffs and suffer some disappointment or get cheated and then just burn out with a beyond his prime QB desperate to get one last hurrah.
Now I see fans flinching at any tiny bit of bad news. Jameis strains his foot and dudes are like "wHaT dOEs TwEAk evEN MeAN?!"
But me? I wouldn't trade this last 17 years of Saints fandom for anything. It's been great watching this team ebb and flow.
I'd dream of the Pels getting to that level of consistency. Tossing it away for Durant? Only in some have your cake and still eat it scenario where the Nets get pennies on the dollar from us. Let us run with the team as is. Play this thing out and have fun watching it grow.
Its a thought exercise. For the millionth time, I am very aware you cant guarantee anything. Could trade for KD, Steph, and Embiid to add to BI and Zion, and a title wouldnt be guaranteed.
The point of a thought experiment is to rank priorities. It is not an "argument" being made. Its simply two scenarios put out to determine if you really believe titles are the be all, end all or if there is something more to fandom
Reading it back, I could have been nicer
I just want to be very clear that I will never argue that KD, or any move for that matter guarantees anything. Just like there are no guarantees with not doing a move. No guarantee that any of these young guys will amount to anything of real value
But the point of hypotheticals is to pit multiple good or bad outcomes against each other and choose one, thereby showcasing your ranking of priorities. Everyone wants money, but not at the cost of loss of love maybe. But perhaps you would trade 5 years at the end of your life for way more money in your 30s, etc. That is the point of a thought experiment. It is not to make an argument
It’s not brilliance, it’s just the way you are taught getting to the same end point in Philosophy
In standard human dialogue, people usually start with their end claims and then fill in the rational afterwards. In philosophy, you start more meta, testing and establishing the foundation of truths/your beliefs and then building the conclusion from that
Standard people scream “I don’t wanna trade BI for KD!” And then say their ‘why’s’ when debated. A philosopher would first determine what it is they deem most critical and valuable and why, and then build out their conclusion from there. Just different ways to get to the same end point. I much prefer the latter
Okay, this thread got pretty entertaining. Lol
+1 for the journey over destination guy
Gutting the team for KD reeks of short-sightedness and I wouldn't even be happy with a title led KD anyway.
He's a 34, soon to be 35 year old primadonna dbag who picks fights with nobodys like me on the Internet and I want nothing to do with him
I'm happy with as far as internal growth can take us over the next 2 to 4 years.
This is basically year 0 anyway. The core is locked up, locked in and ready to rock
LES GEAUX
Caveat: If we could make salary work with DG, Hayes, Temple, Naji, Kira, then yes I'll do it
Ok I'll chuck in Trey too, but no more. Maaaaybe JV. Yeah JV can go because he can't guard pick and roll. That's big.
Am I conflicted?
A little, maybe a lot. Basically every major decision in life involves some degree of confliction
Therein lies the struggle
If I make a trade for KD, the enjoyment factor for me would be highest if it’s for Zion. Much prefer that than our young defensive minded try hards. If it’s simply KD by any means or no KD, i stick with the current team. If we think about Zion wasn’t really apart of the team we grew to love. Seemed to be a foil even