Would you Trade in the Lakers picks now or hold?

I remember a convo on this board back in 2011 when we first got the Timberwolves unprotected 2012 pick, which at the time was seen as one of the best assets in the league. We debated for a few pages about whether we should sell that pick or let it ride. Most were on the side of let it ride and to give you an idea of the value most thought it had, the question was posed as to whether we should trade it back to the Wolves for Kevin Love and the vast majority said no. That pick eventually became 10th, and Austin Rivers, and the rest is history

Cut to today and after the Kyrie news, it looks like the Pels have another great pick coming from the Lakers via swap next draft and potentially another great pick either in 2024 or 2025. But the potential is always there for the Lakers to be better than expected and/or the draft class to be worse than expected. So, with that said, would you consider trading those picks now, and if so, what is the minimum you would take in return? I will start:

Jonas, Graham, Hayes, and both Lakers picks for Bam Adebayo

Yes, I am aware the Heat would say no, but this is the minimum I would give the picks up for. Of course, anybody better I would happily part with the picks. Again, this is my minimum. What about the rest of you?

I don't think I'd be interested in moving next year's swap, at least not quite yet, unless it was for overwhelming value. I think it's the last pick we can have any sort of confidence in predicting would be good (that is: bad), as the Lakers don't really seem to have any clear pathway to improvement and I don't trust their current core to be legitimately impactful in the West. After that though, yeah I wouldn't be averse to moving them for the right price.

Would the right price be Bam Adebayo? Well if he was on the market sure, he's great, but as you say that's unlikely so in the end I probably don't move off the asset, but I'm open to it if the right deal comes up. To be clear, I would take the deal you've outlined in the OP but as you also mentioned, that would never go through so it's kind of a moot point.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think I'd be interested in moving next year's swap, at least not quite yet, unless it was for overwhelming value. I think it's the last pick we can have any sort of confidence in predicting would be good (that is: bad), as the Lakers don't really seem to have any clear pathway to improvement and I don't trust their current core to be legitimately impactful in the West. After that though, yeah I wouldn't be averse to moving them for the right price.

Would the right price be Bam Adebayo? Well if he was on the market sure, he's great, but as you say that's unlikely so in the end I probably don't move off the asset, but I'm open to it if the right deal comes up. To be clear, I would take the deal you've outlined in the OP but as you also mentioned, that would never go through so it's kind of a moot point.

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Every deal proposed on a fan forum is 1000x more likely to not happen than to happen. The exercise is to just get an idea of how valuable people think the picks are, risk averseness, postulating whether this is peak value now or if the stock is still likely to go up, etc.

If I were a GM of another team right now, I would basically look at the Pelicans 2023 pick (with right to swap) as the 10th pick in the 2023 NBA Draft. And based on initial scouting of that draft, the 10th pick in 2023 would have about the same value as the 6th pick in this past 2022 draft. So, that is the value I would place on the pick if talking trades with the Pels. That Lakers 2024/25 pick, I would place a little less value on I think, because while I get two shots at the apple, I also see the Lakers with a ton of cap space in the proceeding summers. That said, Lebron could also just leave and the Lakers might not be able to replace him the first few summers, similar to when they trade to get FA's post Kobe. Also, other bottom feeders in the West like Houston and OKC could be good by then and jump the Lakers.

So, I think other GM's might give you equivalent to the value of two mid lotto picks if you put those on the table. And you can get Jerami Grant players for much less than one of those. So, I think two mid lotto picks should get you a quasi All Star player. Now, if you wait and one of those jump into the top 4, then you are talking them being worth All NBA level players.

Just a fun thought exercise. Same with Herb, and to a lesser extent Jose and some others. There is a good argument that those guys will never have more trade value than they do now, at the beginning of their contracts having shown flashes of greatness in their first seasons. But they were old rookies and there are tons of examples of old rookies coming in and playing great, and that pretty much being 95% of their eventual ceiling.

Normally I'm a let it ride type of guy as I feel the draft offer the best chance at building a championship level team. This may be a case that for the right player you cash in. That CJ trade put us on a clock. We have to start winning big sooner rather than later.

For salary cap reasons, I do not want to trade the Lakers swap and pick. We need to keep adding cost-controlled players. I like what this organization is building. I'm buying ALL of David Griffin's bull.

Also, as a fan, it is fun to have a motivation to root against AD/Bron/Lakers. I can root against them cause I'm petty. But its nice to have some skin in the game.

I'm not trading it right now unless you're getting an Adebayo-level big in return. I need to see the CJ-BI-Herb-Zion-JV lineup at least once before I can decide its ceiling, and before I can even decide whether those pieces fit. Again, as you basically said, development isn't linear. It's very possible Herb takes a step back shooting the 3, at which point he may no longer be a starting caliber wing.

I'm in wait and see mode right now. If Herb isn't what we think he is, then I would be ok with moving those Laker picks for someone who is that guy. Focus on internal development this summer, but be ready to pivot if the right guy comes to market.

The ideal would be someone with 2-3 years left on the rookie deal that we dont have to pay big money to until the cap goes up with the new TV deal, as Zion and BIs deals are locked in at what will be a crazy good value. And while it sounds crazy that a team would trade one of those guys, the Kings already traded Haliburton, we trade Buddy after one year, the Hawks traded Reddish, etc. What if you could get in on a Maxey trade, where the Sixers were getting the star and instead of Maxey the other team wanted to be bad and also take the Lakers picks? Something like:

Sixers get: Mitchell, Graham and Hayes
Jazz get: Kira, Tobias Harris, Sixers picks and Lakers picks
Pels get: Maxey and Korkmaz

Morey dont care about fit, just gets stars. Jazz do a Gobert trade after this and totally rebuild. Pels get another dog, another long term piece who also makes them better now. Yeah, we couldve just drafted Maxey, but oh well. This one would be tough for me, but if I could get CJ to accept a modest 1-2 year extension, I would do it and then plan on paying Maxey big in 3 years. Maxey-Daniels-Trey-BI-Herb-Zion core long term that also can win big in the immediate. I think I would

Beyond the obvious superstars, that would be a short list. I think Mobley, Barnes, Cade begin the real discussion, although probably not for those teams. A. Edwards definitely would have to be in the discussion. Chet is the gamble, but fits the criteria. Paolo for overall talent. Maybe Jabari.

SGA could fit the bill, if he's not mad about Pels trading away his cousin. J. Jackson Jr. barely misses the cut, but is in the mix. That's about it. Young-enough player who's shown true star potential so far, with room to get a lot better. Personality: mature, team-first but knows when to assert himself, no drama or Klutch rep.

Jabari was probably the guy to do it for if the Pels were actually interested in going this direction

I think they likely push most of their eggs in the basket in next years draft

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The ideal would be someone with 2-3 years left on the rookie deal that we dont have to pay big money to until the cap goes up with the new TV deal, as Zion and BIs deals are locked in at what will be a crazy good value. And while it sounds crazy that a team would trade one of those guys, the Kings already traded Haliburton, we trade Buddy after one year, the Hawks traded Reddish, etc. What if you could get in on a Maxey trade, where the Sixers were getting the star and instead of Maxey the other team wanted to be bad and also take the Lakers picks? Something like:

Sixers get: Mitchell, Graham and Hayes
Jazz get: Kira, Tobias Harris, Sixers picks and Lakers picks
Pels get: Maxey and Korkmaz

Morey dont care about fit, just gets stars. Jazz do a Gobert trade after this and totally rebuild. Pels get another dog, another long term piece who also makes them better now. Yeah, we couldve just drafted Maxey, but oh well. This one would be tough for me, but if I could get CJ to accept a modest 1-2 year extension, I would do it and then plan on paying Maxey big in 3 years. Maxey-Daniels-Trey-BI-Herb-Zion core long term that also can win big in the immediate. I think I would

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So Maxey is indeed a 'dawg,' seems to be about all the right things. And yet, his agency is Klutch / Rich Paul. Can you really commit so heavily with future assets on a Klutch client at this point in the timeline? Same reason I never saw D. Murray as a target possibility. Post- AD saga, Lonzo, and Ben Simmons fiasco... After rebuilding locker-room Team culture to all time highs-- I just can't see Griff wanting to do such high stakes business with that agency again. And I wouldn't want to, either.

Questioning a guys “dawg” because he’s represented by Klutch is strange

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

So Maxey is indeed a 'dawg,' seems to be about all the right things. And yet, his agency is Klutch / Rich Paul. Can you really commit so heavily with future assets on a Klutch client at this point in the timeline? Same reason I never saw D. Murray as a target possibility. Post- AD saga, Lonzo, and Ben Simmons fiasco... After rebuilding locker-room Team culture to all time highs-- I just can't see Griff wanting to do such high stakes business with that agency again. And I wouldn't want to, either.

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You can’t discriminate on a whole agency, IMO. You would be cutting of a SIGNIFICANT amount of players, other agencies would take note as well

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Questioning a guys “dawg” because he’s represented by Klutch is strange

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That's how you interpreted that? Interesting. So I'm not questioning Maxey as the player or person at all. It's all about his agent / agency / camp. We've seen how much of a distraction that can be for an organization, and for the player.

Would do it with both Maxey, Garland, Haliburton. Argument being after next year I don’t the team focusing on developing young players anymore. Focusing resources on deep playoff runs in the immediate.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

That's how you interpreted that? Interesting. So I'm not questioning Maxey as the player or person at all. It's all about his agent / agency / camp. We've seen how much of a distraction that can be for an organization, and for the player.

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Lol yea I mean the “And yet” following your opening statement leads me to believe that you’re doubting that statement, but I see what you’re saying now

I feel like I'm lower on Dejounte than most. He's a 6'4, 25 year-old guard who is the engine of a bad team. He can't shoot it well either.

I think at most he's a 3rd best guy but he wants a lot of money in the future and I wouldn't want to pay him that.

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

You can’t discriminate on a whole agency, IMO. You would be cutting of a SIGNIFICANT amount of players, other agencies would take note as well

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We were one of the few teams this past season without even 1 client of Klutch. So is that already agency discrimination? Not to swear off ever signing their players, but it seems reasonable that David Griffin would have reservations about giving up our few prized remaining draft picks for one a Klutch clients, out of all the players of equal or greater talent in the league, but without the questionable agency history.

For role-players like Corey Joseph, KCP, maybe even Trent Jr. level player -- sure, we can do business at that level. But I don't see David Griffin being eager to jump into a long-term partnership with Klutch over one of the team's core players like Maxey.

Offseason headline, 2023: Maxey and Klutch frustrated with role, exploring options

"Aside from expecting a max contract, Maxey is reportedly frustrated with his role on the Pelicans. He and his agent Rich Paul feel he should be a # 1 or # 2 option on a contending team, and that just isn't going to happen on a team with Zion, Ingram and CJ McCullom. Agent Rich Paul has given David Griffin and the Pelicans a list of preferred teams he'd like to be moved to."

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Originally Posted by rocketfox

I feel like I'm lower on Dejounte than most. He's a 6'4, 25 year-old guard who is the engine of a bad team. He can't shoot it well either.

I think at most he's a 3rd best guy but he wants a lot of money in the future and I wouldn't want to pay him that.

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I see him at equivalent value to Jrue Holiday when we traded him. Very good third banana on a team that has 2 other guys who can score it. If I were Boston, I would be unloading every asset I have, plus Smart, for Murray. Toronto should as well too, as well as Atlanta.

It’s a shame that Morrey blew his wad on Harden because Murray’s fit would be beautiful next to Embiid and Maxey

To your point, there’s a reason we went with Kira over Maxey. Take that for what you will

Hmm. Im just curious, do the Pels have a target already set that they wanna go after, this or next year?

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

To your point, there’s a reason we went with Kira over Maxey. Take that for what you will

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Right? One day, ten years from now, we'll get a 30 for 30 documentary on the Griff / Rich Paul relationship and battles over the years (LBJ Cavs, AD trade, Lonzo standoff). Would love to hear their uncensored thoughts about that.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

To your point, there’s a reason we went with Kira over Maxey. Take that for what you will

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And it's a shame because it has nothing to do with which of the two is better at basketball.

The most obvious need I'd target (assuming we can't pry loose an All Star-level player) would be a scoring/shooting sixth man off the bench, the role Graham was supposed to play.

In that direction, I'd consider moving one of the Laker picks (possibly with protections) for a guy like Maxey or Immanuel Quickley or maybe Tre Mann if the Thunder are looking to get a pick back. On the veteran front, with the right structure, I'd be willing to look at Jordan Clarkson, Kevin Huerter, Joe Harris or Grayson Allen, who is on a very good deal for the next two years.

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Originally Posted by rocketfox

I feel like I'm lower on Dejounte than most. He's a 6'4, 25 year-old guard who is the engine of a bad team. He can't shoot it well either.

I think at most he's a 3rd best guy but he wants a lot of money in the future and I wouldn't want to pay him that.

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He's a 6'4 point guard (perfectly reasonable height for a PG, by the way; taller than any PG we have on the roster right now unless you count Dyson) with a 6'10 wingspan who has been among the league leaders in STL% for each of the last 4 years, has a great AST/TO ratio (40%AST to only 11%TOV last season) whose teams have been consistently much better with him on the court than with him off.

It's not like 25 is old either, it's very much still young. Old enough that you have some idea of who the player is, sure, but with Murray that's good: a really strong defender who racks up steals and passes well without turning it over, who shoots the midrange exceptionally well but who doesn't shoot particularly well from behind the arc.

I agree that I'm not on the Dejounte hype train, it's not like I view him as an all-NBA calibre guy or anything, but the appeal is super obvious. Lots of good stuff going for him and I'd go for it if the price was reasonable enough; it just isn't. Reportedly, Spurs want four unprotected firsts for him, which is ridiculous.

Would love to make a run at SGA

Assuming health, one of CJ, BI, and Zion will be on the court at all times. JV will be on the court during those times as well. That’s, on the low side, 80 ppg of hyper efficient offense right there. The Grizzlies led the league last year at 112 ppg. That would mean the other 5 guys only need to combine for 32 points to be the best offense in basketball from a scoring standpoint. I think the only real need right now is some CJ insurance

Why would you trade for a lot of pieces? The roster appears to be just fine. The direction appears to be just fine. Hayes and Graham could go. There are other names that could go at the back end of the bench. But in general you have a core.

Looking at the 2021 draft:
Bones Hyland
Kuminga
Suggs

2020 Draft:
Cole Anthony
Maxey
Bey
Okoro
Pat Williams
Okongwu

Obviously some would have to be 3 team trades

The Suggs one would be bold and would make some sense for Orlando too if they rather bet on Cole

JJJ and KAT would be two players I'd definitely target.

If they don't get Looney on a discount, I wonder what it would take to get Wiseman from Warriors. I'm not offering both Lakers' picks unprotected, but I think he might be worth trying to grab if the price is right. They're going to have a team option on a player at $12m after next season that won't be worth it if they don't play him over Loon. For the Pelicans, he might turn into the successor to JV if he hits his ceiling.

Would Killian cannibalize Dyson?

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Would Killian cannibalize Dyson?

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I'd just play Dyson over Killian. I think he's a better prospect. So I'd hope not.

I'm a gambler, so it's just my nature above all else, but I'm not moving those picks. Especially not the pick swap next year.

I think the Lakers could easily land us another top 8 pick and I want to be in that Wembanyama sweepstakes. The ceiling of this team + Wembanyama is a dynasty. I'm rolling those dice, no matter how small the odds.

I can agree with that dae. Shreve has a good point too. If the lakers are a real ******** show, in theory, wouldn’t the picks we get be better than the prospects we’re listing?

Father Time couldn't slow down LeBron so he sent Russell Westbrook to do the job SMH

— Barry (@BarryOnHere) June 28, 2022

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

I can agree with that dae. Shreve has a good point too. If the lakers are a real ******** show, in theory, wouldn’t the picks we get be better than the prospects we’re listing?

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Of course. That’s the gamble. They also could get 70+ games from AD and Lebron next year plus find some more gems like Monk, and then the next summer, with all their cap room get a 3rd star of 3-4 good pieces like they had in 2020 and be good enough again where those picks are in the late teens/early 20s

I would bet my money age catching up with LeBron

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

I would bet my money age catching up with LeBron

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Age catches up with everyone. Lebron has done as good a job as anyone else in NBA history at fighting it - was anyone else ever still playing at this level after nineteen years? - but he's not playing until he's 50. He's got a little left in the tank though, imo. Not as a top 3 player but when you're so high above everyone else, it takes a long time to fall.

I’d like Kuminga or Okongwu but would want protections on the pick. At least top 10 on both. I’d prob set that on almost any player we try to trade for. Dejonte would be nice but have to include Vassell to get even close to if there’s no protections. This would be my favorite if we really going to pull the trigger.

Kira was taken over Maxey because the FO isn't infallible which is why they wouldn't have taken Haliburton either

And why they took Hayes + NAW over Garland

Who knows if Maxey is unhappy. I have only read he is ready in Philly. Korkmaz is more of a throw-in but I confess I haven't watched him play much. I think you move the usual suspects. And in reference to trading Laker picks I disagree. What exactly are you adding to a tough core of guys that is worth trading away Laker picks (especially with the Lakers in their current state).

Age catches up with everyone eventually, yes.

However, I firmly believe guys like Lebron and Tom Brady are on a ton of HGH and other drugs to keep themselves playing at a high level. Of course, all the HGH in the world isn't gonna make a 50 year old play in the NBA, but you get my point. Lebron is 37 years old with a zillion miles on his tires, but he has science on his side. But all the HGH in the world won't help AD.

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Originally Posted by Upper Decker

Age catches up with everyone eventually, yes.

However, I firmly believe guys like Lebron and Tom Brady are on a ton of HGH and other drugs to keep themselves playing at a high level. Of course, all the HGH in the world isn't gonna make a 50 year old play in the NBA, but you get my point. Lebron is 37 years old with a zillion miles on his tires, but he has science on his side. But all the HGH in the world won't help AD.

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I think it's generally agreed upon that basically all high level athletes (read: world class athletes, not just someone who is really good on the local level) are on something. Anything Lebron is taking, you can bet most of the other elite NBA talents are taking too - and it doesn't seem to be doing for them what it does for him, generally at least. And we also know that steroids or growth hormone don't actually just automatically put you in good shape. So even if you factor drugs into it, I'm willing to bet that Lebron just has (along with insane genetics) much more focus on his workouts, his diets, his recovery process, etc, than pretty much anyone else in the league does.

That's before you even get to his skills that have nothing to do with his size or physical condition, like his ridiculous vision or absurd feel for the game, which are also key aspects to his longevity. Stockton proved that if your passing is at a high enough level and you don't play like an idiot, even people with very unimpressive physical traits can basically just play however long they want.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think it's generally agreed upon that basically all high level athletes (read: world class athletes, not just someone who is really good on the local level) are on something. Anything Lebron is taking, you can bet most of the other elite NBA talents are taking too - and it doesn't seem to be doing for them what it does for him, generally at least. And we also know that steroids or growth hormone don't actually just automatically put you in good shape. So even if you factor drugs into it, I'm willing to bet that Lebron just has (along with insane genetics) much more focus on his workouts, his diets, his recovery process, etc, than pretty much anyone else in the league does.

That's before you even get to his skills that have nothing to do with his size or physical condition, like his ridiculous vision or absurd feel for the game, which are also key aspects to his longevity. Stockton proved that if your passing is at a high enough level and you don't play like an idiot, even people with very unimpressive physical traits can basically just play however long they want.

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I agree with all this except it wouldn't surprise me if Tom Brady and Lebron have "better" HGH/drugs. I'm completely talking out of my ****** here, but those guys are totally crazy competitive people with endless resources. So I disagree with the premise that anything Lebron is taking, the others are too. But then again, I readily don't know anything about the subject.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

I'm a gambler, so it's just my nature above all else, but I'm not moving those picks. Especially not the pick swap next year.

I think the Lakers could easily land us another top 8 pick and I want to be in that Wembanyama sweepstakes. The ceiling of this team + Wembanyama is a dynasty. I'm rolling those dice, no matter how small the odds.

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Gotta agree with this. The shot at Wembanyama is too good to pass up, and the Lakers looked primed for a year of high drama with the pressure on Westbrook only getting worse as he continues his decline and Lebron gets another year older. And if anything changes dramatically, there's still the trade deadline.

For those who were all aboard the 'hold' train, how would you feel if Lakers trade Westbrook and picks for Kyrie tomorrow and he re-signs for a few years and actually plays? Combine that with more and more teams looking to tank, and I am not as confident as most that these future picks will be special

If they get Kyrie, I’m more willing to trade it without protections.

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Originally Posted by Upper Decker

I agree with all this except it wouldn't surprise me if Tom Brady and Lebron have "better" HGH/drugs. I'm completely talking out of my ****** here, but those guys are totally crazy competitive people with endless resources. So I disagree with the premise that anything Lebron is taking, the others are too. But then again, I readily don't know anything about the subject.

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They bathe in the blood of virgins, I've been told.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

For those who were all aboard the 'hold' train, how would you feel if Lakers trade Westbrook and picks for Kyrie tomorrow and he re-signs for a few years and actually plays? Combine that with more and more teams looking to tank, and I am not as confident as most that these future picks will be special

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I mean, yeah that would obviously changes things, but even if they make that trade tomorrow, there's no way for us to know if Kyrie is actually gonna play a full schedule of games. So I'd probably still take the gamble that they all 3(Lebron, Kyrie and AD) do what they usually do, which is miss alot of games and only try on one side of the floor. The fact is Kyrie doesn't seem to care, AD can't stay healthy and Lebron only cares about his scoring titles at this point. They have no depth and no assets to get real depth. I'd still bet on them being a lottery team, so im atleast holding the pick swap for a chance at Wembanyama. But ofcourse, I'd feel alot better about it if they still have Westbrook come opening day.